Author Topic: What do you think about cost control?  (Read 35713 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

tom04

  • Guest
Re: What do you think about cost control?
« Reply #30 on: December 27, 2014, 10:35:30 PM »
Wow guys, settle down.  It was just a few simple questions.  Suddenly I'm a NASCAR loving commie racer who wants a participation trophy and is told to stay on the porch?  Really?  Relax, nobody is rewriting any rule books.  In the words of the first George Bush, I'll just mark you guys down as "undecided." 

I know I'm going to regret this, but I'll try to explain, just in case there is anyone else reading who likes a challenge.  There are lots of factors that go into making speed on the salt.  Horsepower is one.  Aerodynamic design, fabrication, setup and luck are others.  The question I posed is simply a challenge to eliminate what I consider the easiest, least interesting and most expensive factor (i.e. horsepower).  When in say "easiest," I don't mean that it is easy to build a motor that makes big horsepower.  Actually, I think the opposite is true.  But, big horsepower is easy to buy.  I'll offer this story as an example: A couple years ago I was talking to the father of a single-car-team sprint cup driver.  His son's motor-lease deal was $90,000 for the weekend.  That's right, $90K to "borrow" a motor for 3-1/2 days.  When they failed to qualify for a race, they dyno'd the rental motor and found it was 50hp under the primary team.  Some people might find the challenge of building big horsepower more interesting.  More power to them.  But for me, big horsepower means buying a retired NASCAR motor and there is always a "primary team" that will have a better bullet.
 
Again, it's not a matter of "low horsepower," but rather "reliable and repeatable horsepower."  (Although, some of the best racing and best people are in the small-bore motorcycles trying to get to 100MPH.)  The effect a spec motor is to emphasis the other factors like aerodynamic design and fabrication skills.  As stated in a prior post, driver reflexes are probably not as important in LSR as in other forms of racing.  Plus, the assumption is that once a spec car gets sorted, the owner would put a bigger motor and go for a record.  So the challenge is really for the car builder.  I'll agree that spec racing has been a disaster when the organizers try to specify too much stuff.  (See, Pro trucks and Trophy Light in off-road.)  But, spec motors have actually been a good thing when the rest of the car is left open to innovation.  (IMCA and 6100 in offroad.)

Finally, I'll confess that I have a self interest in the challenge.  Two years ago, I converted my daily driver into a salt racer as a bucket list project for three friends to go 200 mph.  After we all got our "A" licenses, I started sneaking the rev limiter up and got to within 1-1/2% of the class record before I got too scared of breaking parts.  The plan was to return this year with a higher gear and get the record.  Then, since "that would have been so easy," I'd take the NASCAR motor out of the current car and go back next year to check off the 300MPH box in a new special construction car.  We all know what happened this year.  Now, since I only have so many seasons left, I'm thinking about taking two cars next year.  A spec challenge means I don't have to buy another big motor, but keeps a little friendly competition. 

Flame on.

Offline BHR301

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 273
Re: What do you think about cost control?
« Reply #31 on: December 27, 2014, 11:14:36 PM »
No flames...but :dhorse:

Bill

Offline 7800ebs

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 165
    • http://quickturnparts.com/index.html
Re: What do you think about cost control?
« Reply #32 on: December 27, 2014, 11:17:51 PM »
yes....but does the CG change or does the CP when running a CRATE Engine... ?

 :-D

Offline edinlr

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 344
Re: What do you think about cost control?
« Reply #33 on: December 27, 2014, 11:18:36 PM »
C-air seemed like a good idea except I saw it a place for a retired small inch pro stock motor.  Cost control should require factory rods, maybe an iron crank, 2-bolt mains, 10:1 compression, 2bbl carb, aftermarket intake, factory heads limited to valve work and first 1/2" with mods, factory rockers, hydraulic lifters, aftermarket exhaust, four speed tranny or three speed automatic, low tech ignition.

I still think a class for retired Nascar chassis woud be good, they are already designed for high speed crashes and have tons of safety equipment.

For bikes I would like to see a twin class like the ECTA does, this would bring in a lot of fast twins, Ducati, Buell, Aprilia, Honda, Suzuki, etc.  These don't take much space and will further encourage new riders and bring more $$$.

Last, I want a Formula 200 MPH bike class to allow a number of different class bikes to compete on a roughly 200 mph target.  Blown 600/ 4's, pushrod 1650's, stock 1350 & 1650's, lightly modded 1000/4s, streamliner 500's, etc.  This would be a blast to watch and create a lot of interest as maybe 20 bikes compete for a single trophy rather than one or two in hter classes each year.  More entry fees too!
Honda CX650 turbo, Kawasaki H2 Ninja, Kawasaki ZX750 turbo

Offline 55chevr

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2446
Re: What do you think about cost control?
« Reply #34 on: December 27, 2014, 11:27:10 PM »
Bracket land speed racing?

Offline kustombrad

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 366
    • Project No Bucks '49
Re: What do you think about cost control?
« Reply #35 on: December 27, 2014, 11:41:49 PM »
 Break out the shoe polish...

Offline wobblywalrus

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5503
Re: What do you think about cost control?
« Reply #36 on: December 28, 2014, 01:23:55 AM »
Motorcycle racing has had and does now have spec classes.  The Thruxton Cup for Triumphs is one.  It brings a number of people into racing that normally would not because of the cost.  Most of the bike and engine needs to be standard.  The bikes are low cost and plentiful Triumph twins.  There are a limited amount of parts that can be changed so this keeps the expense down.  A fellow in our Triumph club races in it.

There was an RD Yamaha class in England and a few others I knew about at one time.  Lots of big name road racers started in spec classes.  The bikes are pretty much equal so the rider and tuner need to be real good.

They can work to keep costs down, to bring new people into the sport, and to develop future professional racers.

Offline Speed Limit 1000

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1398
Re: What do you think about cost control?
« Reply #37 on: December 28, 2014, 01:31:54 AM »
You could do the 36HP challenge. How hard could that be? :dhorse:
John Gowetski, red hat @ 221.183 MPH MSA Lakester, Bockscar #1000 60 ci normally aspirated w/N20

Offline maguromic

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1736
    • http://www.barringtontea.com
Re: What do you think about cost control?
« Reply #38 on: December 28, 2014, 02:25:30 AM »
I have some IRL engines in crates for sale. Tony
“If you haven’t seen the future, you are not going fast enough”

Offline Tman

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3672
Re: What do you think about cost control?
« Reply #39 on: December 28, 2014, 10:18:52 AM »
brackets and spec suck. Creativity rules. just look at a couple three groups from Montana and choose you own path.

Offline Seldom Seen Slim

  • Nancy and me and the pit bike
  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 13169
  • Nancy -- 201.913 mph record on a production ZX15!
    • Nancy and Jon's personal website.
Re: What do you think about cost control?
« Reply #40 on: December 28, 2014, 10:31:47 AM »
Yeah?  So tell me -- what's so creative about a Jaguar running a straight-8 Buick engine?  You see 'em every day at our local WalMart. :roll:
Jon E. Wennerberg
 a/k/a Seldom Seen Slim
 Skandia, Michigan
 (that's way up north)
2 Club member x2
Owner of landracing.com

Offline Buickguy3

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1026
Re: What do you think about cost control?
« Reply #41 on: December 28, 2014, 11:08:11 AM »
     And the Cat will be back!  :-D
     Doug  :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:
I keep going faster and faster and I don't know why. All I have to do is live and die.
                   [America]

Offline Speed Limit 1000

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1398
Re: What do you think about cost control?
« Reply #42 on: December 28, 2014, 11:24:53 AM »
For those who understand, no explanation is needed, for those who don't, none is possible! :dhorse:

John
John Gowetski, red hat @ 221.183 MPH MSA Lakester, Bockscar #1000 60 ci normally aspirated w/N20

Offline Stan Back

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5891
Re: What do you think about cost control?
« Reply #43 on: December 28, 2014, 11:25:45 AM »
"I still think a class for retired Nascar chassis woud be good"

What year?  We'll start stocking up on templates.
Past (Only) Member of the San Berdoo Roadsters -- "California's Most-Exclusive Roadster Club" -- 19 Years of Bonneville and/or El Mirage Street Roadster Records

Offline RichFox

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2663
Re: What do you think about cost control?
« Reply #44 on: December 28, 2014, 12:22:03 PM »
Tom: There is nothing wrong with your idea. If that is what you would like to build, go for it. You asked what the general list member thought about it. And I think you have your answer. It seems to go against everything Land Speed racing has always been about. Still lots of projects have run on the salt just because the owner wanted to build and run it. The difference I see is that you want the recognition of a record for indulging your dream. You live near Jack Costella. Have you talked this over with him. It sounds like something Jack might be interested in and have some ideas about.