Newcomer looking for some direction and advice

[wheelspin]

I am certain my questions have been previously addressed in this forum, but I thought I would try it anyway. This is my first Bonneville experience; although, I am not new to racing. I have been a professional racecar engineer for 12 years, and I have a few questions for all you old timers with regards to Land Speed racing. I won't be able to finish my Motorcycle ( I plan to run in 1000cc P-P)  in time for speed week, but will be there for the World Finals.

Here is my list:

General stuff:
1. How long are you officially timed when running? Do you have to maintain your speed through the entire 5 miles or is 1 timed mile enough to get your time officially recorded?
2. Do you have to qualify before officially running for a time? Do you have to qualify to run in the World Finals?
3. How does licensing work?
4. Where can you camp with a motorhome? Is there a curfew on the salt? Can you set up shop in the pits and stay the night there?
5. What should I expect in tech? What should I expect in tech if I set a record? (Are they going to completely tear me down?) What tools are needed, etc.?
6. What should I bring for the race (obvoiusly shade, water, etc.)? I am looking for suggestions for things that you always wish you had brought but didn't think of.
7. How many runs per day should I expect?
8. How long do you have between runs?
9. Are you allowed to bring 4 wheelers ( ATV) for the wife and kids to spectate?
10. Are you assigned a number ar can you chose your own number (Motorcycle number)?

Technical stuff:
1. What is the average density altitude in early September? I know this is a loaded question; I am just wondering how much leeway I need to give myself with the engine map, timing etc. I live in Reno, NV, so I test a lot at what I think is similar altitude and conditions.
2. I plan to run a 2006 Suzuki GSXR 1000 with every modification I can think of, can I run Hayabusa throttle bodies and stay in the production class? If not, can I bore the stock throttle bodies? It is my understanding that as long as it looks identical externally it will be allowed? ideas?
3. I plan to run 1000cc P-P. I have been talking with Dan Wright at length about P-P and I have a clear understanding of what is needed. I do have some questions about other classes.
During the meet can I remove the fairings, add nitrous, and run in a modified fuel class, or change the wind screen and front fender and run in gas modified partial streamline?  How do I go about tech, registration etc. when running 1 vehicle in multiple classes?
4. What is the unlimited class?Why are they so much slower than the other classes?
5. My leathers have perforations in the crotch, behind the knees, and under the arms. Are these perforations going to be a problem?
6. Are the stock fuel lines sufficient to the rules if I install heat shileding over them?
7. Can I sleeve and reduce the bore size in a Suzuki Hayabusa to 1000 cc, run it on Nitro, in a GSXR 1000 frame with extended swingarm and long drag race tail in modified partial streamliner fuel?
8. What should I expect with a 2006 GSXR 1000 running a legitimate 197HP at the wheels ( Motor only) at Bonneville? I don't want to get my hopes up, but it has gone 202mph on GPS in Reno, NV while testing ( slight tail wind and very steep down hill) just kidding. What should I expect with the same bike with an added 65HP of nitrous?
9. How much is traction an issue with the above mentioned Motorcycle?
10. How wide is the course?
11. Can I put any under 3 liter engine in a mototcycle and run it ?( 3 liter Judd V10 full race motor)

I have read the rule book repeatedly and I think the items I am asking are in the " grey area" so if I missed it in the book please let me know where it is in the rule book and I appoligize for the ignorance.
If any of these questions are repetitive or redundant to previous forum discussions please point me in the right direction and I will read the existing posts.
I appreciate anyone who is willing to share their experiences, tips, do's and don'ts with me. I have been dreaming of this for nearly 10 years and finally have jumped off the bridge to see if I can run with the big boys.
I sincerely appreciate the help,
Nathan McBride
www.mcbridecompetition.com

[Freud]

These questions will all be answered in the two year course at the University of Salt in Wendover, Utah.

It is presented in week long sessions in August, September and October by different professors. Class opens at sunrise and closes at 5 PM MDT. The discussion group is conducted in bars, restaurants and parking lots each evening.

The final exam is an evaluation of the reduction in funds in your bank account. The more times you take the course, the more you will finally learn. There are returnees that have been paying for classes for 40 years and still fail with regularity,

You better audit Speed Week and then some of the questions will be answered. Sometimes when the answer is evident to others and presented to you, you still won't grasp it.

A written answer to all of your questions will require more than one year of attendance.

It is typical of any university that students attend. They can't believe that the way the professor tells them has any basis in fact and they are confident that their untested theories will blow that old foggie out of the water.

Dr. FREUD

[interested bystander]

Dr F- you've said it all!!

[wheelspin]

Dr.Freud

Although I sincerely appreciate your fortitude, with eternal subliminal self righteousness and truth I am left bewildered. I , in my solitude , do not seek mysterious antics, contemplations, push ups , or the like in procurement of necessary information regarding my submission. Oh' dear professor of the salt , unhinge your kindness and knowledge for us lowly newcomers to your wisdom and sage of the salt.

Yours, with the utmost gratitude and eternal debt

Nathan McBride

[Sumner]

General stuff:
1. How long are you officially timed when running?

1 mile -- 2 to 3 on the short course and your choice if you qualify for the long course of 2-3 or 3-4 or 4-5.  If you qualify for a record it has to be backed up in the same mile.

Do you have to maintain your speed through the entire 5 miles or is 1 timed mile enough to get your time officially recorded?

See #1

2. Do you have to qualify before officially running for a time?

If you run over the record then that counts as one of the 2 runs required to set a new record.

 Do you have to qualify to run in the World Finals?

No

3. How does licensing work?

Read this: http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/hooley/hooley-2004.html

4. Where can you camp with a motorhome?

At the "bend in the road or near it, not on the salt.

 Is there a curfew on the salt?

yes, usually by 8pm

 Can you set up shop in the pits and stay the night there?

No

5. What should I expect in tech?

They will make sure the car/bike meets safety requirements. (before you race).

 What should I expect in tech if I set a record? (Are they going to completely tear me down?) What tools are needed, etc.?

see the rule book.

6. What should I bring for the race (obvoiusly shade, water, etc.)? I am looking for suggestions for things that you always wish you had brought but didn't think of.

There is a check list on here somewhere maybe someone has the link.


7. How many runs per day should I expect?

Speed Week for the first couple days only 1 to maybe 2 if you are first in line in the morning.  Later in the week plenty of runs to blowup.

8. How long do you have between runs?

As long as the line.  4-5 hours the first day

9. Are you allowed to bring 4 wheelers ( ATV) for the wife and kids to spectate?

Yes, but not in the pits or race area.

10. Are you assigned a number ar can you chose your own number (Motorcycle number)?

You can ask for a number if it is availible (see rule book)

Technical stuff:
1. What is the average density altitude in early September?

Speed Week is in August and World Finals is Oct., other than that it can vary.  

I know this is a loaded question; I am just wondering how much leeway I need to give myself with the engine map, timing etc. I live in Reno, NV, so I test a lot at what I think is similar altitude and conditions.

You might be at an advantage living there compared to someone back east or on the coast.

2. I plan to run a 2006 Suzuki GSXR 1000 with every modification I can think of, can I run Hayabusa throttle bodies and stay in the production class?

Probably not if they don't look exaclty like the ones on the 1000

 If not, can I bore the stock throttle bodies?

I would think so, but I'm not a bike kind of guy

 It is my understanding that as long as it looks identical externally it will be allowed?

That is what I also understand.

 ideas?

No

3. I plan to run 1000cc P-P. I have been talking with Dan Wright at length about P-P and I have a clear understanding of what is needed. I do have some questions about other classes.
During the meet can I remove the fairings, add nitrous, and run in a modified fuel class, or change the wind screen and front fender and run in gas modified partial streamline?  How do I go about tech, registration etc. when running 1 vehicle in multiple classes?

You pay more money to change classes and probably go back through tech.


4. What is the unlimited class?Why are they so much slower than the other classes?

Probably any size motor you want to run and maybe it is larger and punches a bigger hole in the air, maybe there is not the same speed equipment available, maybe I don't know.

5. My leathers have perforations in the crotch, behind the knees, and under the arms. Are these perforations going to be a problem?

Yes, do a search and see what to do about it.  Basically I think you can have new leather sewn on over those areas.

6. Are the stock fuel lines sufficient to the rules if I install heat shileding over them?

got me.
 
7. Can I sleeve and reduce the bore size in a Suzuki Hayabusa to 1000 cc, run it on Nitro, in a GSXR 1000 frame with extended swingarm and long drag race tail in modified partial streamliner fuel?

Don't know

8. What should I expect with a 2006 GSXR 1000 running a legitimate 197HP at the wheels ( Motor only) at Bonneville? I don't want to get my hopes up, but it has gone 202mph on GPS in Reno, NV while testing ( slight tail wind and very steep down hill) just kidding. What should I expect with the same bike with an added 65HP of nitrous?

Expect to find the salt is harder than you expected and expect to find out as only you can by actually running.

9. How much is traction an issue with the above mentioned Motorcycle?

You will probably have to find out for you particular bike, but a lot have run 200 or more..

10. How wide is the course?

I'm guessing 100 yards.  

11. Can I put any under 3 liter engine in a mototcycle and run it ?( 3 liter Judd V10 full race motor)

Maybe only in a streamliner, but I don't know for sure.

I have read the rule book repeatedly

Read it again and again and again and keep them all and have them at work, in the shop, in the john, etc.....

And like the good dr. F said if you can't get your b..t to one of the meets, especically as close as you live, then why even ask questions???

Hope to see you on the salt,

Sum

[Larry Forstall]

You must use stock throttle bodies and they CANNOT be bored in the Production class. Record inspection consists of checking displacement and external appearance. Since your engine is 998cc on a 1000 max. you probably will have to remove the head for a precise measurement. The class changes as listed are legal. The engine swap would move you to A. A Busa is more aerodynamic than a 1000 (Yes, I realize the 1000 has less frontal area) so the swap is not worth the effort. A Busa needs almost 200 HP to go 200 that I know. The 1000 probably needs at least 15 more. Torque is an important part of the speed equation at Bonneville. RPM is only a side event. Having multiple class plans is admirable but concentrate on one. I have been attending for 30+ years and am still on Plan A.     Good Luck.     Larry

[Glen]

On the www.scta-bni.org web site there is a list of things you need to take.
You might want to look at it.

[firemanjim]

Wheelspin,a few more answers--
Do not have to qualify to run for a time, you can actually use your licensing passes as qualifying if they are fast enough--though for that particular class the record is not so easy.
Licensing runs are outlined in rulebook and you will need to work your way up so you can run not only on long course(over 175) but fast enough to attain a record qualifying run,which is 182+ mph.
If you set a record you need to tear bike down far enough so your cylinders can be measured,so cams must be removed/disabled so cyl volume can be measured.
You can change to Modified classes from P classes.Just need to go back through tech for  each class change and pay class change fee.
 The "all leather" rules are a pain so yours need work,only minimal vent holes allowed behind knees,elbows.No fabric at all.
Stock fuel lines are fine with Firesleeve over them.
Remember "Fuel" classes have additional requirements for shutoffs on handlebars.
Yes you can sleeve down the Busa motor and run it that way, but pay attention to wheelbase requirements and rules regarding streamlining to rear of bike/rear wheel.
Bonneville speeds are no where near what a bike can do on the pavement at sea level, you are at 4400 feet and the salt sucks up HP--figure 10% to start.Traction is a big issue on bigger bikes, it becomes a balancing act.
Remember speed increase vs HP necessary is a geometric progression with HP rising fast vs incremental speed increases--thus the 250 mph out of the turbo Hayabusas running 500hp +/-.
You will be needing to look at any and all methods od shedding wind resistance--lowering bike,removing everything not neccesary--like front brakes. Sealing all holes in bodywork,making sure rolling resistance is at its least--chain and wheel bearings??
Course is wide(100"?) but shrinks rapidly with speed.Stay away from center where the cars can make ruts which can make your runs "interesting".
Your V-10 engine would go into the A class as Modified engine must be from same manufacturer as bike frame.
Bring all the tools necessary to work on any part of your bike, air compressor, generator.
Read rulebook multiple times while looking over your bike, the rules are scattered in sections so be thorough. Metal valve stems, safety wiring,chain guard, fuel shut off, tether kill switch, that sort of stuff, and remember your rear body height measurement is with a rider so if you are close put a big guy on it.
Have a blast.

[Glen]

The course width is 90 feet.  

[dwarner]

Isn't a Judd V10 a car engine? If so, you cannot use it in a motorcycle.

DW

[PorkPie]

Isn't a Judd V10 a car engine?

Dan, I think you be right, as I remember - this engine was used in the Formula 1 after the turbo era......

[Sumner]

Isn't a Judd V10 a car engine? If so, you cannot use it in a motorcycle.

DW

What about the classes UG & UF where they say "any reciprocating engine which uses the Otto cycle may run in Streamliner category only".

Also how about the Boss Hogs that run car motors, mainly sbc's.  Would they be allowed in an Unlimited class other than Streamliner???

Not that I would ever ride one.  I remember a quoted interview with Mark Martin where he said something like "I'm a NASCAR driver and I'm suppose to be pretty brave, but I can't hold the throttle wide open for more than a couple seconds as they scare the hell out of me (the Boss Hog)".  Probably just an advertising gimmick.

BTW a google search does show Judd V-10's as a F-1 motor.

c ya, Sum

[RichFox]

Disregard

[wheelspin]

Thank all of you for the information and help, The Judd V10 is a purpose built race engine . I have a line on one and was wondering where it would fit. After looking at the rule book again I think the unlimited class is the only place I could run it. It is so appealing because its physical dimensions are so small and it only weighs 285Lb, can make in excess of 900hp if turbo's are added.

Back to the project at hand, In the rule book it states that you can remove the license plate bracket. Is this the entire mounting structure ( the GSXR has a large plastic plate that extends down off the rear cowl) or are they referring to just the small metal adapter. I have looked at some pictures and it appears that most people remove this but I cant tell if they are in a production class or not.

Also, I was wondering what if any bodywork can I run in Modified / fuel, can I just remove all the fairings and keep the stock rear seat cowl, also in this class I think I could make a new gas tank ( that meets the minimum capacity) so I could lay down flatter and reduce some drag. I am thinking I want to stay away from the partial streamline class as I have not developed a tail for this motorcycle and wont have time to do so this year.

In the fuel class what is the best method for a fuel shut off without removing my hands from the handlebars? Any suggestions on where the best place to mount a nitrous bottle that will be accepted in tech?

Thanks again for all the insight
Nathan

[jimmy six]

Do you have a rule book?