Saving the Salt

[velocity]

I strongly encourage any land speed racer, enthusiast or crew member to write to the man below with a "CC" copy to your US Senator and House rep. Otherwise start selling your LSR gear, or start saving to ship it to Australia.

I've had enough of the polite chitty chat, the life support system on Bonneville is failing and my boiling point was reached this afternoon.


Kevin Oliver
District Manager
BLM Utah State Office
West Desert District
2370 S. Decker Lake Blvd.
West Valley City UT 84119
(801) 977-4310 or (801) 977-4300
Cell: (801) 450-3134
Koliver@blm.gov

Mr. Oliver,

You were conspicuous by your absence in the Salt Lake Tribune’s  podcast discussion about the plight of The Bonneville Salt Flats today. Many, many racers have grumbled that the BLM refuses to engage in meaningful dialogue with its recreation users, as evidenced by being especially cagey during the last round of mining permit negotiations. Your last-minute refusal to participate today seems to justify their perspective.

Is there a reason why you will not engage in serious public discussion about this issue?

As the BLM is charged with the duty to be stewards of our public lands, I find it puzzling how the Bonneville Salt Flats have been allowed to be systematically and geologically raped for decades. Is the revenue stream so important that it trumps the health of our federal land? That Bonneville is also on the Register of Historic Places makes the BLM’s failing so much more egregious.

I say this with all due diligence done for many years seeking  to understand the ecological and hydrological aspects that impact the health of the salt flats.

The abundance of rain has washed away the fragile buffer the recreational racing users had been clinging to for more years than they should have. I see this as “situation critical” and wonder why the BLM does not exercise its chartered role as leaders to take immediate steps to halt the degradation and implement a remedial plan without further delay.

Too much talking, too little acting.  It is a situation like this that leads me to believe the Civil Service has far too many protection points for employees.

Speedy Regards,

LandSpeed Louise

[Dynoroom]

Very well said Louise, restrained just enough.

I'm almost glad Mr. Oliver didn't show as our side didn't seem to have their ducks in a row if he had... 

[Bob Ellis]

Hey Louise , From the other side of the planet (Australia), you have got some GOOD words there!!!!!! I assume the BLM is the similar to our National Parks (That look after Lake Gairdner) down here.
Can they(Gov't) not see that the Bonneville Salt Flats is a National (and International) Icon???The guys on the Apollo missions even commented when they saw it from outer space!!!!

While I would love to see American racers (and yourself) down here on our salt, , us people in the southern hemisphere still regard Bonneville as "Hallowed Ground", and many of us travel up there to race, crew, spectate (and tech inspect-in my case). It is the home of Land Speed Racing .

It is a special place! There are only TWO salt courses/events in the world. Bonneville Utah USA, and Lake Gairdner South Australia!!! Mention the word tourism, how much money is pumped into the local economy from us , how much money is pumped into the U.S. economy from foreigners (we go other places too while on our Bonneville trip) , there was a post on this forum somewhere about getting onto the politicians , DO IT!!!

People - Racers , Spectators , Local business , Manufacturers of racing equipment, or even the gas station at Ely , CANNOT lose the salt flats .

That's my two cents worth,,

Bob Ellis
DLRA Chief Car Inspector.

[Milwaukee Midget]

 
  We must take the Federal Government to Court.  It can be done in Salt Lake City.  It only takes MONEY for research to prove that the BLM neglected their duties for the last thirty years or so in enforcing the Salt Removal Permits.  Lawyers and legal researchers need fuel for their Legal Engine... MONEY.

It's a worm can that will likely have to be opened at some point, but here's what this might entail . . .

We'd need to be able to discredit numerous studies with equally credible, quantifiable factual evidence to the contrary.
 
The cost of hours of evidence gathering.

Payment to credible expert witnesses.

Proof that what's happened isn't weather related, or evidence that can properly account for the percentage of the depletion that can be proven in court to be the fault of mismanagement by the BLM.

An understanding of all of the contracts, rules, laws and regulations related to mining on the flats in order to determine whether or not under federal guidelines there are, in fact, any legal grounds for a suit claiming mismanagement.

The cost of the appeal.

$150k might cover the retainer fee.

Of course, if we win, or the BLM settles, the feds may pay the lawyer's fees - which certainly isn't fair to the rest of the taxpayers - the BLM remains in charge of the Salt Flats, Intrepid stops pumping in either direction, and remediation of the salt flats begins . . . when?  Financed by who?

I defy anyone to name a congressman who would author a bill to provide funds to move salt from the south side of I-80 to the north.  And if they were to do so, what would be their response to Fox News as to the reasoning behind their push to spend taxpayer dollars to do so? 

I can hear the local station break now - "Hot Rodders in Utah demand 150 million tons of salt be transported 10 miles so they can race - and they want the taxpayers to pay for it.  Find out why at 10".

Yup - I think it all sucks, and I'm not seeing a scenario that plays out well for us.

It might be cheaper and more effective to buy the mining rights and not exercise them, which isn't always legal.  At least that would stop any further mining related salt depletion.

[hoss]

As this conversation is about Speedweek 2015, and it's possible cancelation again does the thought of the Alvord desert in southern Oregon hold any possibilities for the future?
Have been some fast runs there in the past.

[wheelrdealer]

Chris:


You make a lot of good points. After 35 years in the car business I am very familiar with both sides of the litigation process. Litigating anyone is an expensive endeavor litigating the federal government is overwhelming. But the environmentalist lobby has done a good job so it can be done. I am not a lawyer and I did not play one on TV but if the suit angle might be the BLM's failure to preserve a historic site but they could use that to ban racing. So like you explain that is not a good avenue for us. The other would be to file suit with the mining companies and work for injunctions to stop certain activities until studies can be done. That's how they stop dams, landfills and power plants.

Now taking a page from other minority opinions and how they have gotten results, I would say find the companies buying the products from the mining companies around the flats, start finding out what products result from the mines and figure out how to boycott the retail products. Once the retailer feels pressure they will communicate with the mining companies. If you follow the money you have to find out where the money and the consumer intersect. That is the only area we can have an impact. No retail company wants to be in the news for killing the Salts Flats. If we can impact the money trail we can get a meeting at the table. I have persuaded the  factory's to give away tens of thousand of dollars over the years to people that was pissed off at a car company just to get them to stop picketing in front my dealership.

Just my 2 cents.

Bill
Bill

[wheelrdealer]

Louise:

Just sent my letter to Kevin, CCd you on the letter.

Thanks for the motivation.

Bill

[Peter Jack]

While the basic idea is good, unfortunately potash is used to make fertilizer and I've become rather used to eating. I'm not prepared to give it up even on pinciple! 

Pete

[Koncretekid]

I would just like to say be careful when you challenge civil servants, as they can easily get their backs up and become vindictive and entrenched in their negative positions. Sort of like trying to argue with your mother.

But I agree with a letter writing campaign with copies to senators and representatives defending our position and suggesting solutions.

A question in my mind is if the mining operations are taking salt and not returning it, where is it?  They claim to only be taking the fertilizer part (potash?), but has anybody checked those car loads to see if just perhaps, a lot of salt isn't going out with the potash?  I suspect in the natural drying process, all the precipitants, salt and potash and whatever, stay behind on the flats.  But in the process used by the mining companies, how do they separate the salt from the stuff they want and what incentive do they have to do so?

Tom

[Milwaukee Midget]

Thanks, Bill -

There's one other problem I see on the horizon.

Currently, US potash extraction exceeds US demand.  As potash is an internationally traded commodity, pricing is set on the global markets.

Current potash prices have leveled off in the last year or so, but they're currently at 2007 prices, which were quite low.

If Intrepid cannot make a profit, they can't afford to be involved in the recovery process.

I haven't seen their books, but any chance of Intrepid maintaining salt recovery depends on a profitable extraction operation.

Intrepid needs to be able to extract and deliver a product priced competitively with potash from Canada, Russia, Belarus, Spain, Israel, Brazil and China.

If the potash facility were to go dormant, who would we partner with to maintain the pumps?

While many traditional mining techniques have caused federal, state and local legislation to be enacted to remediate the effects that mining can have on the environment, what laws regulate brine extraction and evaporation in the middle of a desert that nobody but you and I really care about?

I wish I were a pessimist - unfortunately, I find myself talking like a realist.

[USFRAMONTE]

One other thing that goes along with what Chris has stated.  The jobs that are tied to the mining enterprise. 

[hotrod]

For those looking for documentation of the salt conditions. A mention was made earlier in the thread about historical information like aerial photos of the salt flats.

They are all out there but it will take someone with a lot of time on their hands to dig through the images to see what they can find.
I used to be in charge of maps for our emergency management agency, and would go over to the Denver Federal Center to pickup maps.
They had a product called "orthophoto quads" which were aerial photos that matched up with each of the 1/24:000 topographic maps.
You could order prints of them. They often had several versions of the images sometimes dating back to WWII period and earlier.
It appears that all or most of that data is now available on line but it takes some messing around with the applications to figure out how to get to what you want.

Start here :
http://nationalmap.gov/ortho.html

https://lta.cr.usgs.gov/Single_Frame_Records

Lat long you want to search for is those values near  40.763551, -113.896156

You can eventually dig down and find individual images with all their associated data like this which was captured in June 29 1981
It was shot at an altitude of 65,000 ft and the original is a 9"x9" aerial photo negative (which means the real image has tons of detail available):

http://earthexplorer.usgs.gov/browse/aircraft/phoenix/aerial/5XBL/5XBL03041/5XBL03041_118.jpg

Which comes from this page:

http://earthexplorer.usgs.gov/metadata/4660/AR5810029940911/

Data Set Attribute    Attribute Value
Entity ID    AR5810029940911
Agency    5
Vendor ID    
Recording Technique    2
Project    81000
Event    
Roll    002994
Frame    911
Acquisition Date    1981/06/29
Scale    61666
Strip Number    0000
Image Type    13
Quality    8
Cloud Cover    0
Photo ID    5810029940911
Flying Height in Feet    65003
Film Length and Width    229mm x 229mm
Focal Length    304.99 mm
Stereo Overlap    5
Other    
Center Latitude    40°44'09.44"N
Center Longitude    113°57'54.97"W
NW Corner Lat    40°47'29.80"N
NW Corner Long    114°02'42.00"W
NE Corner lat    40°47'54.74"N
NE Corner Long    113°53'24.00"W
SE Corner Lat    40°40'51.92"N
SE Corner Long    113°53'12.01"W
SW Corner Lat    40°40'20.75"N
SW Corner Long    114°02'30.01"W
Center Latitude dec    40.735955
Center Longitude dec    -113.965269
NW Corner Lat dec    40.791611
NW Corner Long dec    -114.045
NE Corner Lat dec    40.798538
NE Corner Long dec    -113.89
SE Corner Lat dec    40.681089
SE Corner Long dec    -113.88667
SW Corner Lat dec    40.67243
SW Corner Long dec    -114.04167

[Gary Perkinson]

As this conversation is about Speedweek 2015, and it's possible cancelation again does the thought of the Alvord desert in southern Oregon hold any possibilities for the future?
Have been some fast runs there in the past.

Didn't realize that Kitty O'Neil went 512 there...the photos look pretty awesome...anyone know what the drawbacks might be?

Gary

[BasementBorn]

One other thing that goes along with what Chris has stated.  The jobs that are tied to the mining enterprise. 

Being a civil engineer this whole subject has had the gears turning, I am wondering if there is some kind of solution that would allow for both racing and mining to continue to operate. From some of the things I have read it seems as though they aren't really allowed to mine the area of the course. Whether or not that is actually happening or that has been revised since the documents I have seen so far is hard to say. I know there are ditches in the general area but I don't know if those collect the slurry or redistribute it out to the race course. Problem is even if they are only collecting from areas outside of the protected area they are still pulling it from the shallow aquifer that contributes to the race track. I would be willing to bet I80 is built on road base which is permeable to some extent and allows them to essentially pull the water from the aquifer. If you have ever seen the movie There Will Be Blood it is the same concept Daniel Day Lewis is talking about in this clip https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s_hFTR6qyEo

I am wondering if we can work with the BLM to get them to make Intrepid build some kind non permeable boarder around the course to essentially cut off that area from the effects of the mining. Then also have them continue to pump salt back out to the flats. At least that way there is a potential for the surface to be rebuilt and the mine to continue to operate just not using the part of the salt that we care about. The mitigation they are doing now, pumping the salt back to the flats equal or greater to the amount they are pulling out over the same period, isn't cutting it and at most is maintaining (barely) the amount of salt out there since they started pumping it back out. If the subsurface gets cut off there is a potential to rebuild it rather than just barely maintaining it. Personally, I think the existing studies that have been done could even be used to make the argument. It was recorded that there was a loss in thickness from their first study in the middle of the century to the later studies. The "minimal loss of thickness" they are using to make the argument, whether true or not for our purposes, is based on studies done after the late 80s which doesn't help us get back to historic conditions we want.

What I don't know is how to work a potential solution in to the conversation. Also, if it can be worked in, the schedule for the lease doesn't allow for revision of the mitigation until 2023 or something like that. Can we get the government to force a revision allowing for that kind of mitigation requirements earlier?

[F104A]

We have run the NAE at Alvord in 2012 and 2013. We had to cancel in 2014 because the Alvord was so dry it formed a washboard on the surface from the 3 mile to the end of the lakebed at the North end. We have a permit to run this year and keeping our fingers crossed that the surface remains good for our purposes. The problem you will have is the Western Snowy Plover Bird which the BLM claims uses the edge of the lakebed for nesting purposes from the end of March until mid September. It is on the endangered species list therefore no one is allowed to disturb the nesting area until after Sept. 15. That is why we cannot get a permit to run the NAE until late September and into October. On top of that, the nearest town is Burns, Oregon and it is 130 miles to the North. Logistics is a nightmare! Maybe working with the USAF to get a permit to run on the other side of Floating Mountain is the next best option? The logistics of creating a road into that area is also a huge task.