Author Topic: Saving the Salt  (Read 548049 times)

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Offline NathanStewart

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Re: Did everyone get the BNI update?
« Reply #180 on: July 14, 2015, 03:11:29 PM »
I think the SCTA/BNI is wedged deeply between a rock and a very hard place.   :-(  I heard that more than half of our SW competitors run the short course only.  So those of you that fall into that category, would you still go for a short course only event?  I'm typically a short course racer and I don't see any reason why I wouldn't go.  So whatcha think?
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Offline Gman

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Re: Poor Salt Conditions - all topics merged into one
« Reply #181 on: July 14, 2015, 03:11:44 PM »
Letting the mining industry do their own salt thickness studies and reporting them to BLM is like letting the Fox guard the henhouse.  Who funds  doctor Bowens salt study?  What proof of how much actual reclamation is there?
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Offline SteveM

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Re: Poor Salt Conditions - all topics merged into one
« Reply #182 on: July 14, 2015, 03:14:56 PM »
Are any of the Presidential candidates for 2016 active Land Speed Racers?

That might be our best hope of getting some high-level attention to the Bonneville Salt Flats. 

We need some VERY HIGH PROFILE folks on our side.

Steve.
1/2 of the Rampage Brothers

Offline sofadriver

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Re: Did everyone get the BNI update?
« Reply #183 on: July 14, 2015, 03:16:47 PM »
Already submitted my response to BNI but ........ YES!
Mike in Tacoma

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Offline fredvance

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Re: Did everyone get the BNI update?
« Reply #184 on: July 14, 2015, 03:34:35 PM »
Definitely yes. My fastest speeds have been at the 3mi. :cheers:
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Offline Speed Limit 1000

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Re: Poor Salt Conditions - all topics merged into one
« Reply #185 on: July 14, 2015, 03:34:57 PM »
DW for president :-D
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Offline BasementBorn

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Re: Poor Salt Conditions - all topics merged into one
« Reply #186 on: July 14, 2015, 03:35:19 PM »
The part of the report that is really interesting is that the part we are worried about (the dense upper crust) doesn't come up in the discussion of the thickness at least from what I saw in my quick look. From looking at the appendix it seems as though they are using the thickness numbers that include the less dense layers in the body of the report. The appendix does not include the thickness numbers for the dense layer from the previous report. It leads me to believe that even though there is still roughly the same amount of salt (according to the report) that all the mining has taken away a lot of the materials that make that dense layer which is then conveniently left out.
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Offline DaveB

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Re: Poor Salt Conditions - all topics merged into one
« Reply #187 on: July 14, 2015, 03:36:12 PM »
DaveB,

Your suggestion has been done many times already. Save the Salt and an independent study by Ron Main to name a couple.

Data is ignored by the BLM and legislators follow the BLM info vrs. the studies.  :dhorse:

DW

O well. At least my suggestion has been considered.

I would like to read over all reports about salt conditions. Especially any that include actual data with regard to thickness. Any good solid data that is counter to the BLM's should be brought to their attention regularly.

Anyone, please post email links or directly email reports to me. You can contact me thru this site.
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Offline Milwaukee Midget

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Re: Poor Salt Conditions - all topics merged into one
« Reply #188 on: July 14, 2015, 03:38:01 PM »
Are any of the Presidential candidates for 2016 active Land Speed Racers?

That might be our best hope of getting some high-level attention to the Bonneville Salt Flats. 

We need some VERY HIGH PROFILE folks on our side.

Steve.

I doubt that we can afford a politician.

I've often thought about that, but the conflict of interests between conservation groups, mining money and a very small number of recreational users isn't likely to let a candidate speak in opposition to the mining interests or the Sierra Club.  The right would paint such a person as a "tree hugger", the left, as one sucking off of the teat of big business.

It's a peculiar détente we find ourselves in the crosshairs of.
"Problems are almost always a sign of progress."  Harold Bettes
Well, I guess we're making a LOT of progress . . .  :roll:

Offline SteveM

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Offline JoeRider677

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Re: Poor Salt Conditions - all topics merged into one
« Reply #190 on: July 14, 2015, 03:44:14 PM »
I know I am going to urinate on somebodies shoes. So, does anybody know exactly what Stuart at Save the Salt coalition does? How much time does he devote to Save The Salt? How much does he get paid? Is he just a general lobbyist? For an even more touchy note, just what is the flow of money to the STSC from donations? It sounds like everybody is afraid to piss off the BLM. I know in 2011 the new BLM rep that was at Speed Week was all but crucified during the opening ceremonies. Remember politicians do not respond well to public humiliation and they get even in rather covert ways.
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Offline BasementBorn

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Re: Poor Salt Conditions - all topics merged into one
« Reply #191 on: July 14, 2015, 03:54:56 PM »
DaveB -  there are a couple studies on the BLM website http://www.blm.gov/ut/st/en/fo/salt_lake/recreation/bonneville_salt_flats.html There is a bunch of stuff on the USGS website, I just searched for it but don't have time right now to look through all the info. I think I will take a look at some of the info just out of curiosity.
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Offline 4-barrel Mike

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Re: Poor Salt Conditions - all topics merged into one
« Reply #192 on: July 14, 2015, 04:49:58 PM »
You're right Bob, the BLM was absent from this show. Just finished a few minutes ago.

To say I was Frustrated would be an understatement.......  :evil:  :evil:  :evil:

If you missed it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tpzNdoQCFOU#t=248

Mike
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Offline DaveB

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Re: Poor Salt Conditions - all topics merged into one
« Reply #193 on: July 14, 2015, 05:10:46 PM »
DaveB -  there are a couple studies on the BLM website http://www.blm.gov/ut/st/en/fo/salt_lake/recreation/bonneville_salt_flats.html There is a bunch of stuff on the USGS website, I just searched for it but don't have time right now to look through all the info. I think I will take a look at some of the info just out of curiosity.

Thank you BasementBorn! I have already been reading the BLM stuff but what I am looking for is technical information that goes counter to them. Thank you for directing me to the U. S. Geological Survey web site. My first search of salt flats on their site brought up a very good 1997 article from this government entity, USGS, that proves salt loss.

I don't know if any of this could ever do any good but if the BLM would listen to anything (or be made to listen) it is this kind of research article especially from a government agency that may have a chance.
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Offline USFRAMONTE

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Re: Poor Salt Conditions - all topics merged into one
« Reply #194 on: July 14, 2015, 05:26:02 PM »
We were under the impression that someone from the BLM was going to join in the conversation today. I guess they must be pretty leery of someone saying something that could cause them some headaches.
I can only imagine the difficulty of "studying" the salt flats. I didn't come on the scene until the mid eightys but I do remember reading in the book Salt of the Earth, which is a memoir of Ab Jenkins, that even back in the late 20's and early 30's that the top layer of salt was so loose that they could not run.  Now to be sure, the salt thickness was much greater back in the day but the salt surface itself has been changing in terms of how hard or soft it is, for hundreds of years. Ask the Donner party about it.
In my mind there is no question that years and years of train cars leaving Wendover full of potassium chloride has depleted the salt crust. As recent as 2004 when they were filming the Worlds Fastest Indian, the filming location was toward the mountain side of the normal pit area and went 3 miles north from there. Now that area is nothing but mud, no real salt at all.
I do remember that when the pumping project was first proposed and accepted that Rick Vesco was allowed to go on the south side of the railroad tracks and he took a sample of salt from one of the evaporation ponds.  They had to use a chain saw and they cut a sample that was approx 12"x12"x12". He then took the sample to his motorcycle shop in Brigham City, Ut. and they mounted the sample so they could do a burn out test with a motorcycle. As I recall, Rick said they spent several minutes with the rear tire spinning on the sample and the salt was so solid and bound together the tire just left a black mark and lots of loose rubber when they were done. I remember thinking, boy if we can get that waste salt pumped back over to the flats everything will be golden.  I don't think is has produced the desired results. On the other hand, how bad would it be if nothing had been done?  Just rambling thoughts of mine.