Elvington: 265.4 on a Busa today

[KeithTurk]

I'm not comparing courses... just outright top speed for an open bike... Motorcycle as an unlimited catagory has a top speed of what... 330's?  with Sam Wheeler...  

Taken to the car level...Yes my Modified sports currently is the fastest D and C Modified sports anywhere in the world... ( no real merit here... just what it is )  Bonner Denton has the fastest M/S with a top speed of around 285.  ( that has some merit if your into M/S... but only to those of us that care about M/S )

We all draw some farily fine distinctions with this record stuff...  but when it comes to outright records... that oughta be fairly easy for all of us to sort out...  an example of where it becomes blurred a bit would be a bike like Ack Attact... as I think it's the fastest actual motorcycle in that he has a timed mile over Sam's record... he just didn't back it up...  (I'm hoping my memory about this is right... getting old sucks...)

[KeithTurk]

John...  if you'd have gone down to Australia and things were Perfect... and they gave you say 10 miles to run your scooter on dead smooth rock hard salt... and you had a timed mile of say 270 ( or even an exit speed for all I care )...  it would be the Fastest sit on bike ever.   What I'm trying to get across to Malcolm is that the distintion here is an apples to apples comparison of top speeds.... no more or less...  conditions are what we make them...

The outright speed stuff in a given category is where we really need a world wide set of records... how they are established is all about procedures and to me that has little to no merit...

This goes into the deal of FIM Vs BNI Vs whatever...  If you hold the "Quote" World record for X,W, or Z... and someone else in a different timing association has a faster record in your class... well it's pretty much got damn little merit...   A fella can thump his chest about it... but on the end of the day he's slower then the other fella in that class...

The question here was did the guy in England spank our butts on an open bike,  The answer to me was Yep... hate that... YOU need to fix it... LOL

[Bow]

John...  if you'd have gone down to Australia and things were Perfect... and they gave you say 10 miles to run your scooter on dead smooth rock hard salt... and you had a timed mile of say 270 ( or even an exit speed for all I care )...  it would be the Fastest sit on bike ever.   What I'm trying to get across to Malcolm is that the distintion here is an apples to apples comparison of top speeds.... no more or less...  conditions are what we make them...

The outright speed stuff in a given category is where we really need a world wide set of records... how they are established is all about procedures and to me that has little to no merit...

This goes into the deal of FIM Vs BNI Vs whatever...  If you hold the "Quote" World record for X,W, or Z... and someone else in a different timing association has a faster record in your class... well it's pretty much got damn little merit...   A fella can thump his chest about it... but on the end of the day he's slower then the other fella in that class...

The question here was did the guy in England spank our butts on an open bike,  The answer to me was Yep...

Amen Kieth!

This guy hauled ass and can prove it. End of story.

Did he set a record? not a "recognized" one...

Did he become a member of a club? Probably not...

Did he haul ass on two wheels and his nuts in the breeze faster than anyone else? Yup...

End of story.

Who cares if it was on Pavement, turf, dirt, greased visqueen, or salt... he moved and moved fast, which is what this thread was orginally about, before all the "It was on the salt, it doesn't matter" BS started.

[JackD]

American drag Strips are meant to be as equal as is possible but they are not.
From hour to hour and lane to lane they change.
The various racers are meant to be as close as can be made with the same parts
(almost) available to anyone, but they are not.
Their is a track record listed everywhere and it gets a lot of attention but is as variable
 as the added horse power brought by a tailwind that you never hear about at El Mirage for example.
The closer you make the field, the better the comparisons.
Learn from the thousands of failures and you will understand the few successes a lot better.
Should I write a book on dumb stuff ?
There is a lot more information available.
 With that you can prevail at least as far as you are concerned in the debate that is going to happen anyway forever.

[Sumner]

Sorry to leap over to cars here folks but I am following through a thought that LSR cars and bikes should remain using the same tracks, not allowing the two disciplines of two and four wheels to move to different courses.

Where would that statement put your attempt on a Nevada road last year??

I'm trying to understand .

You coming over in Oct. for sure?  I might try and make that meet this year, so we might get to hash this out there .  This doesn't have anything to do though with the fence the San Diego guys meet at .

c ya, Sum

[joea]

so we should consider NHRA dragster and coupe exit
speeds with what lakesters and streamliners and coupes/ ms
run at bonneville...........ok..........

[JackD]

slower is in the eye of the beholder.

[KeithTurk]

Okay Joe... why not?

If you have an A / Fuel  Lakester... whats the fastest one in the world?

Freddy held the record at 355mph in 05...  any top fuel car done better on a drag strip?  Hmmm  doubt it... but if it did... well then it would be the fastest wouldn't it?

K

[bbb]

slower is in the eye of the beholder.

and my mama said I aint slow. just not up to speed yet.

so explain this to me. if Ack is a motorcycle powered streamliner is it by definition, a motorcycle?
Gillette is/was not a motorcycle by definition because it is powered by something intended to power something else?
If I bring a Boss Hoss to the salt, is it a motorcycle?

and yes, the 265 in the UK is the fastest anyone has recorded a motorcycle engine powered, sit on motorcycle run. period.

[JackD]

A motorcycle is defined as a powered vehicle with less than 4 wheels in contact with the ground.
That is the short answer.
It is more complicated than that but no more well understood than some of the
 methods used to enhance their performance and has not been perfected yet.
The Ford V-8 from SLC ran on the salt as a motorcycle over 25 years ago.

[Malcolm UK]

Sumner, the road course in Nevada would be available to anyone prepared to go through the hoops to get approvals and access.  The mile and kilo were in the centre of the total space so in terms of layout it would be similar to the International course on Bonneville or a shorter version of the Black Rock effort.

The point regarding courses I wished to draw out was that for safety a half mile shutdown for cars would be very short, whilst the bikers had enough room.  So there would be little chance for cars to run at a 1.5 acceleration, 80 foot trap and less than 0.5 mile to stop - safely.  Thus you could not hold a single meeting for them both.

I see what you are saying Keith - its fastest by type of machine not taking into account any other factor.  Have to agree with you, from the photos it was a sit on bike (not that you would ever get me on one of those).

The FIM have a different view on thrust powered two wheelers of course and put them in a class of "motorcycle".  The Gillette Mach3 had motors made specifically for the speed attempt - hand crafted by the owner.  He did not borrow the completed rockets from any other engineering discipline - such as space rocket science!  (Just used the knowledge of hybrid propulsion to make the bike go fast).

[JackD]

All of the 200mph+  Drag Racers will be shocked to learn that 1/2 mile is not enough room to stop in.
I guess they need to try harder.

[Sumner]

All of the 200mph+  Drag Racers will be shocked to learn that 1/2 mile is not enough room to stop in.
I guess they need to try harder.

One difference though Jack is that dragsters (Top Fuel) are aero bricks and can stop without the chute as has been demonstrated on occasion (even though they might need the sand trap to do it).  Most 300+ mph b'ville cars can go forever without the chute and the brakes they have on board aren't going to help much .

c ya, Sum

p.s. Let us know how you are doing when you can.

[Glen]

Big Fred D. runs over 300 at the dry lake and shuts off and clears the course in less then 3/4 mile. The Phoenix was stopping and off the course at Bonneville in less then a mile. It's done all of the time. You pull the chute in the lights and it will stop in the shut down area, bikes excepted.
Don Vesco and Al Teague at over 400 use a little more shut down area as they have a high speed chute to scrub off the high speed prior to using the mid and slower speed chutes and they clear the course.
 

[bak189]

Someone correct me if wrong...but if I recall to run SCTA/BNI with a
motorcycle, it has to be powered by a motorcycle engine, if you want to run for record.