Suggestions on what kind of N/A F engine to build

[Crackerman]

Another option for a 4 cylinder. The quad 4.
2.4 liters and made i believe 220 or more hp inthe olds trafaeo (spelling?) naturally aspirated. Some more tweaking and true ram air, 300 hp or more would not be out of the question.

[maguromic]

To throw another log on the fire, SCAT built a 4 cylinder based on the SBC architecture ,  basically it was the front and rear cylinders of the SBC.  Though it was hard on trans gears and had a bad vibration it did well in midget races.  It was also adapted by Arlen Ness for some of his choppers.  The last time I talked with Arlen he still had some of the blocks and heads kicking around.  Tony

I wanted to build one of those since I saw one in ness' Sturgis booth back in the 90s.

Arlen ended up with the patterns for the motor also, and a real nice guy to talk to.  That V4 looks crazy!  Kind of reminds me of the 2 cylinder Riley midget motor from the '30s.  Tony

[Frankie7799]

Thanks for all the options thus far. Being that ill be on very small budget all the exotic high dollar stuff won't be happening. But lots of options to think about and keep in mind.  

[Milwaukee Midget]

Don't overlook marine applications.

I recall Mercruiser made a killer 4 banger that used a Ford 429 head.

Cobra Jet Head on a 4? - That could be frightening.

[Crackerman]

Don't overlook marine applications.

I recall Mercruiser made a killer 4 banger that used a Ford 429 head.

Cobra Jet Head on a 4? - That could be frightening.

Also both omc and mercruiser used a gm 3.0l 140hp and 170 hp as well. Monster ports. Readily available everywhere near a lake. Only downside to those is the non cross flow head design.

[desotoman]

Tom,

Dont you need to do a flat crank to make half a v8?  If so, then cam needs to be changed, and intake fabricated. 

Hi Rick,

Hope all is well, yes you do need a flat / 180 degree crankshaft to run one bank of the chevy V8 motor and camshaft to match. I found a brand new billet flat crank on ebay and paid about half of what one would cost new, I got lucky. I was not going to go with a fabricated intake, just a good flowing aftermarket intake with a nice plenum under the carb. Or I guess if you were worried about the other port openings you could block them off. I hope to see you on the salt next year.

Tom G.

Tom --

I think you picked up an old Rule Book.  The B, C and D records are set, although a lot less the the standard GMRs.  I'd think the RMRs would have an advantage -- time will tell.

Stan

Stan,

Thanks for catching that, much appreciated. I copied the Blown REMR at El Mirage in the above post, my mistake. Here are hopefully current records at El Mirage, again off of the SCTA site.

I agree I think they do have an advantage, if I were to build a REMR, I would build a Sidewinder and eliminate the torque steer, and use the torque to my advantage. JMO.

Tom G.

PS. IMO 300 HP would set a new record at El Mirage in the F/REMR Class.

B    Kraut Bros    W. Boelcke    05/12    215.067

C    Low Sodium    W. Boelcke    05/11    201.413

D    Vintage Hammer Special    F. Valdez    05/11    196.588

E     Minimum              170.000

F     Minimum              160.000

To throw another log on the fire, SCAT built a 4 cylinder based on the SBC architecture ,  basically it was the front and rear cylinders of the SBC.  Though it was hard on trans gears and had a bad vibration it did well in midget races.  It was also adapted by Arlen Ness for some of his choppers.  The last time I talked with Arlen he still had some of the blocks and heads kicking around.  Tony

Hi Tony,

That is interesting that Arlen still had some stuff for those motors. A couple of years ago I went down to Scat and ordered a crankshaft and talked to Tom L. about that motor, and I think he told me something happened to all the patterns for that motor, either they got burned up or something. But I defiantly got the feeling that there was no way to cast any more of those motors. Ask Arlen next time you talk to him so we know what happened.

Tom G.

[jdincau]

The Mercruiser 3.0 L four was a Chevy II.
      I built one with a Fontana head. Billet crank, steel billet rods, forged pistons, roller cam, dry sump, drizzle injection, It made 300HP. Mariani built a 1/2 Chevy V-8 (one side of the block with a flat crank) with a SBX head and put 20 MPH on our record in F/STR at El Mirage. We upped the compression ratio to 14/1 and put a bigger cam in it and we are still 10 MPH short. Without getting exotic the SB Chevy route looks good to me. There are a ton of NASCAR parts out there.

[Frankie7799]

I had read once before about what Fred Larsen had done years ago to get a SBC down to 183 ci. He took a 265 block and put a 5/8 destroked crank in it to get it down to 183 ci. Problem with that idea these days is Im not sure one could find a useable 265 block. The other option would be to take a 350 block and put sleeves in it to get it down to the 3.750 bore of a 265. Then get a custom destroked crank. When he made a 120 cid engine, thats when he took 4 pistons out of the engine. Every other one out of the firing order so one bank had the center pistons, the other had the outers. He then bolted two rod caps together on the rod journal that didnt have a rod and piston. Interesting stuff

[Tman]

265 blocks are out there. Might look at a 305 as well. I have both here in the shop

[desotoman]

Don't forget Chevy did make a 262 V8 for two years also in 1975 and 1976.   3.67 Bore x 3.10 stroke.

Picture is of my Bryant 3.48 Stroke, 180 / flat crankshaft.  4.060 bore x 3.48 stroke x 4 cyl. = 180.2

Tom G.

[Tman]

Always forget about the 262 economy motor!

[jdincau]

one of the motors that Fred Larsen ran in the streamliner was a V-8 with two pistons in each bank, two center on one side and two at the ends on the other. He remarked to me once that if it needed a valve job he just switched the heads from side to side.

[Saltfever]

I had read once before about what Fred Larsen had done years ago to get a SBC down to 183 ci. He took a 265 block and put a 5/8 destroked crank in it to get it down to 183 ci. Problem with that idea these days is Im not sure one could find a useable 265 block. The other option would be to take a 350 block and put sleeves in it to get it down to the 3.750 bore of a 265. . . .

This is just not a viable option nowadays. When you sleeve down the bore, or use the small bore 265 or 262, you end up with a serious breathing problem. The problem is the valve centerline distance on the SBC. It is too wide for a small bore! So you end notching the top of the sleeve to prevent valve interference but get very poor breathing compared to what you can get today with highly developed SBC heads. The SBC 262 (3.671” bore) used a small valve head that you could use on your sleeved motor (without shrouding) but it was an economy head and would be so poor flowing as to be uncompetitive. You would be much better off pulling 4 cylinders and using conventional bores so as to take advantage of modern heads and there tremendous flow capability.

As has been mention many times above, various modern used parts and NASCAR parts for the SBC are readily available based on normal dimensions. You just can’t beat the cost/performance ratio of an SBC. If you don’t want to pull 4 pistons then a midget motor or the other V-6s mentioned would be much kinder to your wallet.

I'll post a pic of a winning 4 cylinder V-8 in another post.

[desotoman]

I had read once before about what Fred Larsen had done years ago to get a SBC down to 183 ci. He took a 265 block and put a 5/8 destroked crank in it to get it down to 183 ci. Problem with that idea these days is Im not sure one could find a useable 265 block. The other option would be to take a 350 block and put sleeves in it to get it down to the 3.750 bore of a 265. . . .

This is just not a viable option nowadays. When you sleeve down the bore, or use the small bore 265 or 262, you end up with a serious breathing problem. The problem is the valve centerline distance on the SBC. It is too wide for a small bore! So you end notching the top of the sleeve to prevent valve interference but get very poor breathing compared to what you can get today with highly developed SBC heads. The SBC 262 (3.671” bore) used a small valve head that you could use on your sleeved motor (without shrouding) but it was an economy head and would be so poor flowing as to be uncompetitive. You would be much better off pulling 4 cylinders and using conventional bores so as to take advantage of modern heads and there tremendous flow capability.

As has been mention many times above, various modern used parts and NASCAR parts for the SBC are readily available based on normal dimensions. You just can’t beat the cost/performance ratio of an SBC. If you don’t want to pull 4 pistons then a midget motor or the other V-6s mentioned would be much kinder to your wallet.

I'll post a pic of a winning 4 cylinder V-8 in another post.

Saltfever,

One head that was made for a SB Chevy that is sometimes over looked is the Dart Buick heads. The valve center-lines were located almost in the center-line of the bore so with a 2.100-inch intake and 1.625-inch exhaust valves and a 4.000-inch bore, there's still an 1/8-inch bore clearance on each side. So that along with 43 cc chambers stock, which could be milled down, it would be a good candidate for a small inch motor. These heads were very competitive in NHRA Comp Eliminator classes back around 2000, and most ran motors in the 270 - 280 inch range, but the RPM was up there, most ran through the quarter at around 9300-9600 RPM. With the right profile camshaft and some good valve springs, these heads might just work an a 183 inch V8. If you could get 2.25 HP per inch you would have 411 HP.  It would be a fun experiment.  More food for thought.

Tom G.

[Crackerman]

Dont overlook the small v8s offered by ford either. Some engineering may need to be put back in them to make a bit more robust, but the late 90's taurus sho and lincoln ls both came with i believe 3.0l v8 and dohc heads.