A class issues

[wobblywalrus]

The 1000cc class was all I ever kept track of when I was running AMA.  For awhile the fastest was L. Porterfield on a production Honda, She was faster than Burt Munro's streamliner record.  Both altered records, fuel and gas, were slower, too.

The folks running production do not have much they can change so they concentrate real hard on what they can.  The factory stuff is pretty good to begin with so they are building on the efforts of a professional design team.  Same with the modified bikes.

The special construction folks are trying to do everything on their own and they are spread pretty thin.  They have so many things they are monkeying with they cannot focus on going fast.  They are busy learning all sorts of things the professionals know at the factory when they design the production bikes. 

The custom built frame rule will keep factory involvement and those with modified bikes out of the special construction class.  Those folks only need to worry about racing with each other.  Actually, it keeps me out too.  The triumph has a standard frame and longer swingarm as per modified rules.   

     

[Jon]

Can an M bike run a standard frame?
Wouldn't it have to be "modified" by raking it or stretching it?
Maybe all factory EFI systems should be banned too.

Dumb rule interpretation, people should be able to run the safest and best peice of equipment available in the higher classes, if that happens to be factory then so be it.
It's like telling someone running factory heads in a class that can run aftermarket heads that they can't compete in that class.
Factory sports bike frames are incredibly strong and stable these days.
I plan on running factory internals in my motor as long as they stay reliable, see no difference.

Rant over.
jon

[Uncle Jimbo]

The special construction folks are trying to do everything on their own and they are spread pretty thin.  They have so many things they are monkeying with they cannot focus on going fast.        

There may be some of us that would disagree with that "focus" statement. 

At most all events, with the exception of AMA, we have to run in A because of the extensive frame alterations that were necessary to fit our 100 cu. in. S&S Superstock Sportster engine in the stock Sportster frame.  The bike still looks very stock, that was the intention, and that's what makes it legal at AMA to run Modified, but not at the rest of the venues. Yes, we had to stay very "focused" to get our geometry and alignment right on the button. Thus, answers the focus statement.  176.4 Naked, with more on tap.

A very simple way to resolve this type of rule interpretation/misinterpretation, would be to get the different LSR venues to maybe get together and unify their rules & regulations a bit. 
Yah - I know - fat chance of that happening. 

So that brings us to something I learned 10 years ago - When you go to play (race) in somebody else's neighborhood - you just need to play by their rules. Probably why we have three different rules/regulations books in the desk. Gotta "focus" on the rules of whatever event your at, and remember to keep it fun.   

When it stops being fun - then its time to stop
Jimbo

[nrhs sales]

A very simple way to resolve this type of rule interpretation/misinterpretation, would be to get the different LSR venues to maybe get together and unify their rules & regulations a bit.  grin

Next you will be expecting world peace!!!

[maj]

Odd thing about the different rules from different associations is untill this yr the AMA and SCTA have more in common than the AMA and Fim
Generally though trying to be prepared to run 3 meets and 3 associations in the US and another in Australia has not been too difficult

But looking to the future , we can't always afford to run FIM (insurance and entry are a lot more expensive as an international competitor entering via our motorcycling Australia) and as i am realy happy with the current "APS" build, it handles great at any speed so far  and i know it has more in it & i do not plan on changing it when it has taken me 9 yrs to get to this point
Andy Sills asked me this year what it was like with the weight i am carrying when the bike wobbles, it was very satisfying to reply it has not wobbled yet.
After some of the rides i had with my modified frame from 2005-10 that had more in common with a Salmon    i have come to the conclusion the factory has spent more money than i could ever think to spend on frame design and progressed from poor handling frames of the 80's to the great pieces we have today , why would i want to take a step backwards on one of the most critical safety items on the bike

So Bubs may not be an option to us every year like it has been since 08  , Sad for us as we like the event and the people immensely

[wobblywalrus]

That is my feeling, too.  The Triumph frame is very strong and better than anything I could build, so I change the triple clamp offset to get more trail and lengthen the swing arm a little bit, and leave the frame alone.   

[RacerX9623]

I built my bike using the parts from a street bike frame.  I used the steering head and swing arm pivot. The motormounts are just little tabs. No reason to make new ones. I don't want to say what is good or bad. I just need to know the rules so I can build accordingly. At this stage I can go modified. But feel the bike is an altered. It is definitely not a street bike .

[RacerX9623]

I got the answer. Since I am using more than 50% of the streetbike frame. Or the original streetbike frame starts behind the transmission.Than its a modified.
Having a wheelbase that is over 10% from the original wheelbase. Makes it a modified that will not pass tech. It is not automatically an altered. Class machine.

[maj]

Welcome to FIM or time only 

I looked at the list of parts to change mine to MPS
New fairings , changes to shorten it to mps and do it right are too involved to just cut it short, the package needs to start about the middle of the bike
new swingarm, including weight boxes and ballast mount points
New subframe , including ice box
less room to package stuff in
start again finding the right balance for good handling
i get a little annoyed every time i think about it  , esp when you think about many of the existing records and the now illegal bikes they were set with

[RacerX9623]

yes, I wish the rules could be written in stone for that reason. I am at the beginning of the build and only stepped out of modified with the swing arm,
I can trim that and run in the modified class.

[Dean Los Angeles]

Running 10" diameter wheels makes it illegal for all conventional classes.
Just because you have done something to make it illegal for modified doesn't automatically put you in altered. You can be illegal for both.

[bak189]

10 inch wheels??............sidecars are not a conventional class???

[Marty]

Here is my A class frame built from ground up. 94 inch wheelbase long and low. No questions about stock frame and slapped on swing arm. Purpose built ONLY. This is what I call Special Construction

[JimL]

An interesting thread, here.  I was looking at the SCTA-BNI records, comparing the "common" partial streamline class records.  These would be the APS and MPS in gas or fuel, or pushrod gas or pushrod fuel.  I did not include the various blown classes because of wide range of development levels at this point in time....meaning not a wide enough historical sampling to draw conclusions.

From 500cc thru 1350cc, there are only two MPS records faster than the equivalent APS record.  The slow APS-PG-500 record is "my bad" made with a nearly stock engine.  That will be an easy one to bump.

We (who run in BNI) get quite a few builds and some good development in these two frame classes, for these engine types.  Last year, for example, we had three entrants in the APS-PG-650 class.  Considering we typically see only one or two entrants in many classes, this is pretty good participation.

I think it shows the APS bikes are developing as expected, and showing their speed potential.  (I am speaking with some bias, however, as my builds account for eight of the current records in this APS and MPS group. You can take my opinion with a "grain-of-salt", as they say.)

The differences wont ever look like comparing a 4-wheel Streamliner to a Street Roadster, but partial streamlined motorcycles will always carry the driver on the outside of the race vehicle, regardless of frame class.  That keeps the relative speeds closer, but not the same, as these "popular class" records show.

JimL

PS:  I cant make an opinion on the "percentage" of production material in an A frame, because I built to SCTA rules and the money is spent.  There is certainly a worldwide history of this type of rule making by professional/business organizations, and it can be firmly resolved when exact dimensions, material type, and component minimum weights are established within those "builder class rules.".

Many of us remember when AMA had to get better control of professional motocrosser development in order to keep the Championships and major events relavent.  Your developing A class rules could provide an entry point for aftermarket industry participation, if the rules can be more carefully defined and home-builder innovation kept in check.  It might make some really interesting and "popular press newsworthy" records, in years to come, while serving as a "premiere class"!  

At any rate, maybe its OK if the rule books diverge...it's just the way of the world, for things to evolve.

[sabat]

Here's a comparison if naked mod and alt recs from scta, just ohc classes. Dean

http://www.landracing.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=983.0;attach=44244