Ethics among photographers professional behavior

[superleggera]

a couple of ideas for discussion?

1) clearly define on the ground the "starting box" with better visible markings. What is there is difficult at best to see and enforce and causes confusion to non-regulars and spectators with cameras from wandering within.
2) create additional signs and POST THEM stating rules who is allowed within the colored starting box -- crew for current vehicle, SCTA officials and properly vested photographers ONLY
3) make the starting box a bit longer (depth) for more room between competitors (space is a good safety item). 
4) ask competitors/crews behind to stop double stacking the starting box -- ie: wait until prior vehicle/crew has cleared before entering
5) ask the starting officials to police their area better (for safety reasons)

Later if still problems -- designate a 2-tier photo credential: A) to shoot within starting box with engine off;  B) to shoot within starting box with engine running.  Probably a 2-tier credential system is applicable for who shoots down course as well in regard to safety?

[superleggera]

Also one question for the professional photographers/video folks:  How much demand is there in the marketplace for close ups (<5ft distance) of a running vehicle in the starting box prior to going down course?  If one is using such a wide angle lens to record, then the car will be out of focal range quickly going down course...

I've seen a lot of video and pictures and rarely see the above in the marketplace, YouTube or as online postings and wondered given all the people apparently taking them!

[hotrod]

How much demand is there in the marketplace for close ups (<5ft distance) of a running vehicle in the starting box prior to going down course?

The technique is pretty old and well established. They mostly are used as setup shots to establish a context or starting point for other shots. Probably the all time classic use of that sort of shot was in the opening scenes of the 1966 movie Grand Prix with James Garner.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5RILdsjeL_4

In that context, it is a legitimate photo technique. Unfortunately of late it has become grossly misused, especially in the import community. There has been a trend to make car photos look "professional" they shoot pictures at really bizarre angles to make them look "sophisticated" in most cases it is a cover up for shoddy photography, if you post enough off the wall shots with weird oblique views folks ignore that you did not spend much time thinking about composition.

There are priceless moments of driver interaction with their crew that occur just as they get ready to go (thumbs up, intense expression as the drive gets final instructions from the starter or crew, closing the visor etc), that "can be shot" with a wide angle lens shoved up their nose, but the same shot can be shot just as well with a 200 mm lens from 80' away and the crew and driver never even know you are there. The problem is the one guy with the wide angle screws up everyone else who sees and wants to get that same shot. If they back up 50' and use a longer lens 30 people can get almost the exact same shot without intruding on the driver and crew in the slightest.

I think way to many people use silly closeups and oblique shots as a crutch because they cannot or will not take the time to anticipate a shot 3 or 5 minutes before it occurs and be in the right place to get it. I love to do candid shots of the driver and such but I want to be totally invisible to the driver and crew so the scene is totally natural not posed, just a moment in time captured on the fly.

Like you I see very few actual shots of that type getting used in photography that people buy. It appears a lot as padding in online photo galleries turning 10 good shots into 50 mediocre shots.

[RayTheRat]

Here are a coupla images that could fall into that category.  Note that they weren't shot from directly in front of the car at the line.  Nonetheless, the technique is as Hotrod described it.

In that context, it is a legitimate photo technique. Unfortunately of late it has become grossly misused, especially in the import community. There has been a trend to make car photos look "professional" they shoot pictures at really bizarre angles to make them look "sophisticated" in most cases it is a cover up for shoddy photography, if you post enough off the wall shots with weird oblique views folks ignore that you did not spend much time thinking about composition.

Absolutely right.  The oblique (I use it, but very rarely) shots, when overused, are nothing but fluff.  And yeah, it seems to be very prevalent in the "cell phone generation": kids that had a cell phone before they were weaned.  The ricer crowd generally falls into that group.

[Wester]

In the past, I have been the one to issue the press credentials at World of Speed so this discussion is music to my ears.  First off, I have refused to give "press" clearances to guys who are just shooting.  They have no need to go into the areas where credentialed photographers can go.  That helped to eliminate a percentage of the shooters beyond the starting line.
Tom Burkland and Rex Svoboda suggested a year ago that there should be a no spectator area in front of the back of the push truck.  I took the suggestion to the starters and the area appeared like magic within a few minutes and was repeated again this year.  Another requirement of the person issuing credentials is the BLM requirement that a photographer pay a fee for photos shot on BLM land and published.  How many in this discussion have cleared their right to shoot photos on the BLM property at Bonneville with the BLM?  When credentialed photographers are allowed down the course they must stay in their "allowed" area.  There have been too many occasions when there was someone shooting at the scene of an "incident" who had no business being in that area and you know who you are.  You are not needed or wanted in that area so stay where you ARE allowed.  I have had an ongoing "thing" with another photographer who has repeatedly pushed in front of where I was set up for a shot and loudly complained when I asked her to move.  Professionals respect others who are shooting, even in a situation where credentials are not needed.  That's my two cents!  Now Lila does it instead of me.

[typo41]

Boy did I miss all the fun!
I heard about this from Ray the Rat at Speed Week this year, you have to understand before Speed Week my life turns crazy making sure the calendars are done, vendors contacted, all the stuff for the trip is loaded and the vechicles are running (motorhome down, 40 pickup down). So not alot of time for site viewing

Where to start, lots of comments. So in no order.

Slim, I was there when Nancy went down, I was shooting H&H REMR, I spun just as she when down. What did I do next? Raise my camera and bang off some shots? No, I turned to the crowd and told them to lower all camera and cell phones for some respect, and it took three comments for the crowd to understand.

Now for some background, yes I shoot Speed Week and I do the calandar, I shoot on the line to get the cars and crews, I do stand between the push vehicle and race vehicle, after asking permission, I also tell the push vehicles where I will be standing pass the start line, I shoot wide angle and in my shots that look like they are four feet away, they are inches away. I know the risk, the starters know what I am doing as I tell them.

Also I am a racer, not at Speed Week, we tried twice and it is too much to shoot, sell and race. So I have gone down the course, it was amazing. We (myself and my wife Chick, the Inspector BI**) do a lot of racing at El Mirage and as such we belong to a racing club, The Rod Riders, also we are on the board of the club so we attend all the SCTA Board meetings

We interact with all the SCTA Board Members

I am vaning trouble with thi post so I wll post and add more in a minute

[typo41]

SCTA will be getting tougher with Credentials. What they are concerned about is having  exposure about the event. Positive exposure so more racers show up and spectators that pay for passes and buy merchendise to keep the SCTA alive.
But as professional photographers know, that market to sell work has just about dried up. Want to see B-ville shots? Go to the sites, photos are being posted within minutes (seconds).  So next year, official requests from official media outlets for official press credentials.

Oh the rights? Should photographers pay BLM? Yes but no.  I am a vendor at Speed Week to sell my calendars.I have to have a million dollar insurance coverage, also at the end of the meet I am required to give SCTA 10% and the state of Utah 3%. SCTA owns the salt flats durning Speed Week so they own the photo rights. So all photographers selling there work on the salt really owe SCTA a cut of the action and should have insurance.

More to come

[RayTheRat]

Fewer vests/passes will help, but a problem will exist until some sort of crowd control is in place at the starting lines. 

I hope SCTA will look at the 2-tier credentialing concept and give it some thought.

[trimmers]

Another requirement of the person issuing credentials is the BLM requirement that a photographer pay a fee for photos shot on BLM land and published.  How many in this discussion have cleared their right to shoot photos on the BLM property at Bonneville with the BLM? 

I work for the Dept of Interior, of which BLM is a Bureau.  I've always been under the impression that the Government does not copyright anything, so I wonder where this requirement originated.  I've never heard of the  National Park Service (another Dept of Interior Bureau) charging for photography in the parks.  So, I would certainly question any BLM employee who is demanding payment from photographers, and ask to know under what authority they're doing such.  In fact, if anyone can provide me with names of BLM employees doing so, I'll look into it.

[typo41]

Also one question for the professional photographers/video folks:  How much demand is there in the marketplace for close ups (<5ft distance) of a running vehicle in the starting box prior to going down course?  If one is using such a wide angle lens to record, then the car will be out of focal range quickly going down course...

Yes there is a call for such shots, take a look at my calendar.

Two tier for photographers? Good Idea.

But with all access, and there was a comment about photographers getting out to the tower and getting all the killer shots. Ahh that does not happen as often as photographers would like to happen. Even for me it was "Tony, let me know when and I will see about getting a Line Steward to go with you, but not right " So photographes are excorted to the tower and just drive up and take pictures.
Access will mean responsibilities, CB radios (working) fire extinghers,,,

[typo41]

To the above post about Govt asking for rights..

I have never been asked to pay for rights to shoot from the BLM, as I mentioned the rights at Speed Week belong to BNI. They have the right to control who and when shots are made.

As for the 'rights' of the people being shot, it is a 'public' event and images shot are the property of the photographer, it is when thoes images are now sold and published, or not even sold to but used by a publication 'rights' come into play. If the publication is reporting on the event, it comes under 'news', no rights necessay. But if images are used for promotion and advertising it becomes interesting.

I am not a 'rights' lawyer, but if only a vehicle is in the image you don't need a release, but if you have a image with people in which they can be identified, you need a signed release from all. How many of you had to sign releases for Dicovery Channel this year?

Do I owe something to the vehicles and people I shoot? Yes, I owe them the best calendar I can produce.

[Tman]

Good discussion guys.

Being part of Tims crew I have had interesting experiences. Many of you know how popular (as in photographed) the Yblock truck is. The Aussies,Euros and Kiwis are nuts for it! Because of this we have had still and film crews around us every year. I will say our experience at Speedweek has been pretty darn good. All of the shooters have been polite and stayed out of the way when needed. Exactly 180 degrees from what I have seen in person and in this thread. I guess we have been lucky. When I am in the chase truck my eyes are on the starter, the same as Tim driving. I am not looking for a photog down low in front of me. I don't leave the line until I also get a nod from the starter. That is one habit that may help more chase folks now that I think of it.

[Freud]

I think policing of the spectators should also be addressed.

They were out of control at the starting line on course #1.

FREUD

[RayTheRat]

I think policing of the spectators should also be addressed.

They were out of control at the starting line on course #1.

FREUD

Amen to that!  If the spectators (non-credentialed humanoids with cameras, mainly) were kept out, most of the experienced photographers would be happy to work together.  There will always be exceptions, but "crowd control" would be the biggest single step to help with this problem.

[Seldom Seen Slim]

I wonder if a "rule change" would be adopted to cover this issue.  It might help to bring it into the face of the officials so they'd consider some of the ideas that have been offered here.  Deadline for rule change submissions is only a few days away.  Get writing, boys and girls.