Author Topic: Finish Line Photos?  (Read 8898 times)

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Offline donpearsall

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Finish Line Photos?
« on: July 20, 2013, 01:31:55 AM »
First - the free-lance photographers at the various Bonneville events do a GREAT job and I appreciate them. But why don't the venues such as Speedweek, BUB, WOS, offer finish line photos for sale? It would be great if they would offer a shot of the vehicle and rider/driver crossing the last timing light with overlaid time, date, speed, etc. But they don't. Why not? They do it in horse racing. Drag racing, etc. I think it would more than pay for the cost of the equipment and labor needed. Since the timing is automated it seems like a simple task to add a camera too. I would pay the $10-$20 they could charge for photos. Wouldn't you?

So the question is why don't they do it? Afraid of making an extra $1000?

Don
550 hp 2003 Suzuki Hayabusa Land Speed Racer

Offline Peter Jack

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Re: Finish Line Photos?
« Reply #1 on: July 20, 2013, 02:25:24 AM »
How about multiple courses and multiple finish lines per course. While it sounds simple, in reality it would involve major expense both dollar wise and personnel wise.

Pete

Offline PorkPie

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Re: Finish Line Photos?
« Reply #2 on: July 20, 2013, 05:17:48 AM »
First - the free-lance photographers at the various Bonneville events do a GREAT job and I appreciate them. But why don't the venues such as Speedweek, BUB, WOS, offer finish line photos for sale? It would be great if they would offer a shot of the vehicle and rider/driver crossing the last timing light with overlaid time, date, speed, etc. But they don't. Why not? They do it in horse racing. Drag racing, etc. I think it would more than pay for the cost of the equipment and labor needed. Since the timing is automated it seems like a simple task to add a camera too. I would pay the $10-$20 they could charge for photos. Wouldn't you?

So the question is why don't they do it? Afraid of making an extra $1000?

Don

Don,

first...how much photographer at the salt are making picture from the finish line...I think you mean behind three and five mile marker with the parachute....99 percent of photos you get from the salt at speed are done in the first 1 1/2 mile....at low speed....

the photographer who makes so picture and can make so picture you can count on one hand....they are three......Hot Rod, Ray the Rat....Me.....

you be aware that a George Poteet is moving 200 yards per second.....

second...I gave my picture away...finish line picture with the parachute behind or just going through the five mile marker or just when the chute is rip out by the pilot chute....
all this years no one asked me to get the speed on the picture...which is ten seconds job to do....also...it would be easy to get the time slip on....
but it was never request....

third....under photo on landracing are more than 800 picture of mine on....with the information that you can order them, request to my address....Jon wrote this on landracing more than once....to today I got not ONE request......unfortunately a lot of people like to get the picture for free.....
they word donation means for a lot of people to forget to say thank you....instead...how I can transfer you some money....

fourth.....my current equipment is worth app. 25 000. Over the years at the salt I replaced them twice.....old analog to new analog.....and from the new analog to digital....
and I use this equipment only for the salt....otherwise I need only one of this small cigarette box size camera for a couple of dollars....because it is always the photographer who makes the picture....never the equipment....but for some situations you need the right equipment....a cigarette box camera is a little bit to slow for 450 mph.....

fifth....if my customer like your idea to get the speed on....the can come along and tell me

So you see....the problem with no speed on the picture are not the photographer....the problem is by the racer and race vehicle owner.....the just have to ASK....

see ya at the salt in a view days...
Pork Pie

Photoartist & Historian & 200 MPH Club Member (I/GL 202.8 mph in the orig. Bockscar #1000)

Offline RichFox

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Re: Finish Line Photos?
« Reply #3 on: July 20, 2013, 07:40:50 AM »
I don't know, but i think he is talking about a remotely controlled camera. Tripped by the timing lights. Similar to what you see on ESPN finish line photos. But set back a little more.

Offline PorkPie

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Re: Finish Line Photos?
« Reply #4 on: July 20, 2013, 08:44:49 AM »
I don't know, but i think he is talking about a remotely controlled camera. Tripped by the timing lights. Similar to what you see on ESPN finish line photos. But set back a little more.
Sure,

and I simple tried to explain what equipment, knowledge it means to get this.....and as Peter Jack wrote....3 courses...4 if you count the rookie/test course....for one course you would need two, for the three and the five mile....

so the simpler solution would be to ask three of the experts if they can get this picture for you....knowing what this three guys are doing...and respect their work with the right thank you....means donation.......

just in case if there is no number what a high speed camera for the five mile marker will cost....starts at 80 grand......200 yards per second :roll:
Pork Pie

Photoartist & Historian & 200 MPH Club Member (I/GL 202.8 mph in the orig. Bockscar #1000)

Offline hotrod

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Re: Finish Line Photos?
« Reply #5 on: July 20, 2013, 10:49:15 AM »
If someone requested me to try to grab a photo under certain conditions, like Porkpie said above, I would be glad to try and get the shot but the car owner would have to be willing to help with a little coordination to make it happen.

As mentioned, there are only a couple of us who actively try and shoot the cars at speed on the course.
Another photographer who actively shoots out there on the course from time to time is Zane McNary.
I usually hang out near mid course somewhere near the 2.5 -3 mile point of the course where the cars are going nearly full speed. Occassionaly I will move down a bit farther but Porkpie usually has that well covered down near the traps. At the mid point on the course I am about 1000 - 1500 ft from the car when I trip the shutter. That of course requires a high end camera and lens to get a usable picture.

For an automated camera system you would have some major outlays and logistics issues.

The physical camera, an enclosure to protect it, trigger system to fire the camera for a start.
Also cooperation from the timing stand, course watchers to get clearance to set the camera up and maintain it.
Depending on the quality of image you wanted from the system that hardware outlay for a single course would be several thousand dollars. For a good digital SLR camara, body and lens alone would run about $2000 - $3000 minimum to well into the $10,000+ for a high end high speed remotely triggered camera system. For each course plus a set of replacement spares for the equipment.

The trigger system would have to be independent of the timing lights to avoid any hint or suggestion that it might interfere with accurate timing, so you'd  have a second set of trigger lights, cable runs and cost of replacement when the trigger lights or camera gets wiped out by a spin or car off course. Or some means to remotely trigger the camera manually.
Then you would need a camera system baby sitter who would keep an eye on the equipment, get it set up, verify it was working and then cull through the 500- 2000 images taken each day on each course to pull the image of a specific car, and get a print to the owner.

Yes it "could be done", the capital cost would be significant depending on the quality of the images people would want.

As Porkpie mentioned above, I have spent well north of $10,000 or camera equipment (camera bodies, lenses, tripods, laptops, memory cards, ladders and scaffold gear etc.) plus the physical over head to get out to Bonneville 2 times a year for speed week and the shoot out.

The few prints I sell don't even cover the gasoline cost to get out there each year.

I do it because I love Bonneville the cars and the people and the challenge of trying to get once in a life time shots of cars moving 220+ mph as they go by me. On the streamliners like Speed Demon, It is all I can do to keep the car in the view finder with a 500 mm telephoto lens as he screams by at 400-460 mph during the shoot out.

For a single car shot there are some logistical problems for a live photographer that the car owner would have to understand.

At a drag strip you can stand down near the traps and take a picture of a pair of cars every 60 seconds or so all day long. For them it is simply a numbers game, take 500 pictures get 12 requests for prints.

Out at Bonneville, the delays between cars are much longer and the photographer needs to know the specific car is on the course at least 30 seconds before the car gets to his/her photo location. Also if a photographer commits to waiting for a specific shot, they are giving up all other photo opportunities on the salt during that time period that cannot be shot from that same photo location.

There are a couple of cars that I have spent 2-3 years trying to get a single good shot of the car at speed simply due to these logistics issues. Some cars will hot lap for 2 or 3 days and others will only make 2 or 3 runs before they break something. Some years you wait all day for 2 or 3 days for a certain car to run and it never gets past the 2 mile due to turn outs and mechanical problems. Other times I have waited hours for a certain car to run, only to have it go by while I was grabbing a soda pop out of the cooler during what I thought was a course hold, because the radio announcer never mentioned the course was active again, and a car was on the course until he was a half mile past my location.

Any car owner who wants a shot of their car only needs to ask us to try and get the shot they want, but it is not a point and shoot problem it takes timing and planning to be at the right place at the right time for a certain car.


Larry
« Last Edit: July 20, 2013, 11:40:02 AM by hotrod »

Offline Stan Back

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Re: Finish Line Photos?
« Reply #6 on: July 20, 2013, 11:30:18 AM »
Not to beat a dead horse -- but a horse race has only one finish line.  They change the length of the course by starting at different points, but alway ending at the same point (I think).

Courses at SW have multiple end points -- at multiple courses -- like the 2, 3, 4 and 5 on a five-mile course.  And every run isn't the "best" of the week for a certain team.  So you might be able to sell 1 out of 20 or so pix if you could find the person or they could find you.

I've been at SW all week and missed someone I knew and wanted to see.
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Offline Bret Kepner

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Re: Finish Line Photos?
« Reply #7 on: July 20, 2013, 11:45:08 AM »
It's just my opinion but the best reason I can think of to NOT have a remote system erected is it's just something else to HIT.
 
Bret Kepner
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Offline PorkPie

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Re: Finish Line Photos?
« Reply #8 on: July 20, 2013, 12:26:21 PM »
Bret, you be right about another risk close to the track....a while ago I had a so high speed automatic camera in my hand...just big and heavy...and maybe had to be installed close to the time light....if someone hit this it would increase the risk of to be hurt and also it would be very expensive hit....

About this what Hot Rod and I like to explain, you racers at the salt got the experts...I attach an example.....this picture shows George Poteet just coming out of the measure mile at full speed on his first and fastest run for his 439 mph record during the Shootout....only from this meet I got a 150 picture from the Speed Demon at the same spot, similar speed, same quality.

this is a very bad quality picture due to very heavy reduced data  size....normally so picture got 12+ MB data size....it is now just 270 KB....on the big one you can read George's name on the side of the car.

Hot Rod's equipment is very similar to mine....the big different between him and me is the technic to shoot the picture....he is using a tripod....I do it out of the hand with my 500+ mm lens....but this is my 30+ years experience of shooting high speed....in other words...I'm my own (living) tripod....

By the way...if some of you racers are missing a picture CD from the 2012 season...sorry for the delay....but a very serious private issue kept me away from any work on the 2012 picture...I didn't start before end of April to go through...and some of my friends had priority...especially a team with a little tiny lakester called Bockscar....I'm sure you folks can understand this.

Back to this thread....what Hot Rod and I like to say...you are welcome to ask us....with some support from your side we can manage it and you can get your picture...and if you take care that we can see the time slip...he will be on, too...otherwise your speed only as some digital numbers....
« Last Edit: July 20, 2013, 01:05:59 PM by PorkPie »
Pork Pie

Photoartist & Historian & 200 MPH Club Member (I/GL 202.8 mph in the orig. Bockscar #1000)

Offline hotrod

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Re: Finish Line Photos?
« Reply #9 on: July 20, 2013, 12:44:21 PM »
Quote
Hot Rod's equipment is very similar to mine....the big different between him and me is the technic to shoot the picture....he is using a tripod....I do it out of the hand

I got tired of having an aching back at the end of 10-12 hours standing in the sun hoisting an 8-9 lb camera and lens every few minutes :)

The tripod has its limitations, It is still an experiment and does not always allow you to get shots that you can with an off hand hold. That is why I have multiple cameras with different lenses on them, the big telephoto stays on the tripod but the others can be used for other targets of opportunity and situations the tripod does not allow you to track.

Bonneville is a very challenging photography environment, and it took me several years to learn both the technique and the equipment necessary to get these shots.

Offline Freud

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Re: Finish Line Photos?
« Reply #10 on: July 20, 2013, 12:50:22 PM »
If a parachute shot is important to you, just tell the fotog where you plan to pull it.

Oh I see, you don't know when you will have to pull it.

So if the fotog is clairvoyant he will be at the "unusual area" that you had to pull

the shute on your only full course run of the meet.

Or You abort the run and he is standing at the usual place and you never get there.

No way for him to know what happened.

He's still standing there.  Highly profitable time wise !!   Oh Ya.

What's he to do?

Don't ask for or expect miracles.

FREUD
Since '63

Offline PorkPie

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Re: Finish Line Photos?
« Reply #11 on: July 20, 2013, 12:51:22 PM »

The few prints I sell don't even cover the gasoline cost to get out there each year.
Larry

Larry, thank you for reminding me.....

I'm too much enthusiast to think about cost and what I could earn....

therefore I love too much the salt, too much the people of Bonneville and too much to make the racers happy with the picture I have done during the race season....

the true...the expenses to come to the meets for the 2011 and 2012 season...for EACH year.....was 10 000 dollars overall....means flights, rental car, gas, motel a.s.o.

I would have to get a lot of donations for my picture if I only get a part of this costs back....

but as I wrote....therefore I love speed too much and the place Bonneville, that I would stay away....



There was a other thread....is it worth?????.....on landracing (unfortunately this for a very sad reason)...asking so for to be on the salt....

YES, it is worth....just the big smile of the race vehicle owner or the driver/rider.....it is all worth...the cost....the sweat....the waiting for the next racer........


During the inspection of the Bockscar last year, Stainless was asked from one of the inspector what I paid that I could drive the lakester....

his answer was.....ten years beautiful picture......thank you, Stainless, you said it in four words.
« Last Edit: July 20, 2013, 01:03:17 PM by PorkPie »
Pork Pie

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Offline donpearsall

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Re: Finish Line Photos?
« Reply #12 on: July 20, 2013, 02:30:36 PM »
Thanks for all the replies. Despite all the comments about why it is impossible I still think it can be done effectively and safely.

In 2011 I coasted across the finish line on fire and spewing oil and parts after having blown the engine 1/2 mile back, but still got the class record. I really wanted a photo or video of that moment. But photographers were nowhere.

Don
550 hp 2003 Suzuki Hayabusa Land Speed Racer

Offline PorkPie

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Re: Finish Line Photos?
« Reply #13 on: July 20, 2013, 04:36:12 PM »
Thanks for all the replies. Despite all the comments about why it is impossible I still think it can be done effectively and safely.
But photographers were nowhere.

Don
Don,

why you call it impossible and why you blame now photographer that they was not there.

from the safety side we explained why this is a risk.....I don't like to hear you when the crosswind pushed you in a so camera equipment....

for the photographer.....photographer are artist...they making the picture they prefer...and don't explain an artist how he has to do his art and what he has to do.

We have no obligation to be there at the end of the measured mile to take care for each racer.....

As Hot Rod and I explained, if you ask us friendly and early enough, we have no reason to do it not....only you got the bad luck to run on the wrong course and we have to be on a other course.

But please....if the photographer takes care for you...don't forget to blew your engine right on time...best, close to the finish line....this makes the best picture....

« Last Edit: July 20, 2013, 04:44:35 PM by PorkPie »
Pork Pie

Photoartist & Historian & 200 MPH Club Member (I/GL 202.8 mph in the orig. Bockscar #1000)

Offline Peter Jack

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Re: Finish Line Photos?
« Reply #14 on: July 20, 2013, 04:47:35 PM »
Don, maybe then you should be prepared to foot the bill to do what you're requesting. If it proves practical then you should receive the profits. I have a feeling you won't be getting rich and you'll get really tired of those whining that the cameras were incorrectly placed to get the shot that they specifically wanted.

Pete