Aerodynamic battery cut off activation.

[gkabbt]

Where is the switch located on the car?

Rick,

Here is a pic I took that shows the location of the switch Rob was telling you about:



Hope this helps,
Gregg

[Glen]

The rule book says must be mounted in the front or the rear of the vehicle. The reason is if a vehicle is on it's side or top it may not be accessable to the emergency personnel. The inspection committee might turn your vehicle down or make you change it at the event.

[Sumner]

EDIT:  I guess Glen posted while I was typing but will leave the post up as I spent so much time typing 

=======================================================================



Before going to the salt, while at the Roadster show possibly, run that position by one of the tech guys.  One of my good friends, I won't mention names Sparky, had his new car at El Mirage and had to move his switch since they told him the switch should be at either the extreme front or extreme rear of the car.  I'm not sure of how close to the front or rear is considered 'extreme'.  It would be a shame to get to tech on the salt and then have to go work on the car over that issue.  You might be fine where the switch is located and maybe have already run this by them and if so sorry for bringing this up.

Great work on the switch and you are not leaving any aero on the table  

The rule book doesn't clarify exactly what 'extreme' is but does say...

The disconnect switch or a positive mechanical control (cable or rod) for the switch shall be located on the front or rear of the vehicle operable externally and clearly marked.

He was told that it was ok to mount a solenoid like a Ford type at the batteries with an electrical switch operating the solenoid at the back or front of the car.

Since I got side tracked into boats and they have regs I'm going to do my batteries like on the boat where you have to have a fuse within 6 inches of the battery.  You can get these fuses...





...that work off of the post and they come in sizes large enough to handle any load.  They are not that expensive....

http://www.genuinedealz.com/marine-electrical-supply/fuses-and-blocks


... and just might stop a car from burning down,

Sum

[Rick Byrnes]

Rob, the reason I asked was that my liner shut off is in the front third of the car, but not extreme front.  Actually in the very front of the foot box near the driver. The rule books do not specify "extreme" front, and I have seen other streamliners that used a door for access.

Like you, I have the entire electrical system fused with a 400 amp fuse.(just enough that engine starting wont blow it)  Any short to ground will pop the fuse as well as complete deactivation from the drivers steering wheel thru an automotive solenoid.  I really thought I had it covered every which way.
The electrical switch is  push  to de-activate, but to reset, the hatch is necessary.  I suspect most liners have switches that are hidden from the air but can't really remember specifically what cars.
At any rate most liners also if they are on their roof, will need to be up righted  to open or cut canopy and cage since most are hinged.  I realized they made Sparky change to extreme end, but if the rule book changes don't specify extreme ends of the vehicle...?there is room for the shut off being "near" the front or rear as you and I have done.  

I seldom disagree with SCTA/BNI rules since they are all about safety for the drivers and I am seriously in favor of overbuilding, but there are so few liners I think the safety crews will become acclimated to each specific location.  Perhaps not.
I will work on "Plan B" however not a simple thing with my current body design. (both ends are complete enclosures.)
Love your car, and hope to see it run blindingly fast.

[Richard 2]

Can we see a picture of the whole car?

[Rick Byrnes]

RR
Sorry the front is coming along with the design that is shown in the attachment, but the stylist/designers that I have had working with me don't know how to listen to me or the WindWizard.  Both have been fired.  The guy that produced the current front is much better, but still issues with understanding what the engineer wants.
The first was a real pro "Ford Designer" and thought he was smarter than my aero guy.  He got it wrong.
The rear will use some of the aluminum body that was present on the lakester.  It is good, fits extremely well, and will accommodate my composite panels for compound curves.  I have not begun that yet, as LIFE got in the way for the past year. and more....
As a lakester we were on the salt in 04 testing.  Not a fast session but I learned a lot about how smart I'm NOT.
I plan on running at Wilmington ECTA next summer with partial body, starting at the front and working my way back.  Perhaps being at WOS next year.  Financially though I'm not sure.  In the same boat as most.

The car is considerably smaller than it looks in the photos. 21" wide thru the driver bay until the rear fenders begin.No scoop on the car and provisions to change vert fin from nothing to what size becomes necessary.
Objective 300 MPH+but not much more

[Dynoroom]

Rick, just to clearify...

2013 SCTA rule book, page 36. 3.K, last paragraph.

"All vehicles shall be equipped with a main battery disconnect switch. The dissconnect switch or a positive mechanical control (cable or rod) for the switch shall be located on the front or rear of the vehicle, operable externally and clearly marked."

[robfrey]

Due to the design if our car, it will probably never lay on its side after an accident. It will probably right side up or upside down. If it is upside down, it will be harder to get to if it is located at the very top of the vehicle. Reading the rules, I would have to say that we comply. Keith Turk is an official SCTA inspector and he had no problem with location. That being said, I want to get the car looked at by another SCTA inspector when we are in CA in January so we minimize any surprise issues that we may encounter at SpeedWeek. Oh yeah, Brandon also wants to get his bail out signed off while in CA.

[Glen]

I was on the SCTA/BNI Emergency Response Team for several years and been on many accidents. When a vehicle crashes ,1st. it won't look like it did in inspection and the emergency people don't have a lot of time to look for a switch under a door no matter how well it's identified. The Vesco liners have a push rod right in the nose with a pull cable. This simple rod to push the switch off. In many cases the body panels are crushed or torn off. Think about it. Just my thoughts.

[robfrey]

Glen, there is no door, you just press where it says to. No protruding handles or rods to snag if car starts rolling and sliding. This design is probably MOST likely to survive an accident plus the inertia switch should have done its job.

[robfrey]

This does have me thinking. I need to put stickers on the bottom if the car showing where shut off is in case car is upside down when they get to me.
Also, is it ok if I make my own much bigger decals telling where the switch is or does it have to be the little round SCTA sticker that you write on with a sharpie?

[Sumner]

......but there are so few liners I think the safety crews will become acclimated to each specific location.  Perhaps not....

I doubt that most of the safety crews on the course have seen many if any of the cars that are running during inspection or any place up close unless a car really interests them.  I'd not want to count on the fact that they did or even if they did if they remembered where the switch was on any particular car.  I'd say the rule is a good one and  isn't that hard to comply with.  If there is an electrical situation going on after/during an incident you don't want to wait for the car to be turned over to deal with it,

Sum

[Rick Byrnes]

I wonder if the AMO/STEELE liner had a functional electrical cut off switch after crashing? 
If the Hondata car had had an electrical cut off switch on the front.  Guess what.

As in the past I will comply with the rule, but Isolating the battery energy source isn't all about a solenoid and switch.

Rob, I think we both have to change.  Keith will be over ruled and over powered.  I will keep my switch and access door, and add a switch at the front of the car.  AND identify the location on top and bottom of the car.....

Sum, if the rule was good it would also require fuses on the electrical system so that if a 00 battery wire got cut and grounded  in a crash, the whole chassis would be re welded...or somethin like that.
 
Anyone that has seen the cars I have built and/or been involved with,  SAFETY has been paramount.  Hell with some minor tweaks the cage I did for the Merkur 25 years ago would pass tech today.  I think Mike is doing those tweaks. Every car I have done has gone thru SCTA tech successfully the first time.

[Sumner]

....
Sum, if the rule was good it would also require fuses on the electrical system so that if a 00 battery wire got cut and grounded  in a crash, the whole chassis would be re welded...or something like that. .....

I agree and plan on using them.

...Anyone that has seen the cars I have built and/or been involved with,  SAFETY has been paramount.  Hell with some minor tweaks the cage I did for the Merkur 25 years ago would pass tech today.  I think Mike is doing those tweaks. Every car I have done has gone thru SCTA tech successfully the first time...

Yep, I'd have no concerns getting in any car you've made and can't wait until you get the changes done to the current one,

Sum

[robfrey]

Rick,
I don't know about moving our switch. As I read the rules, we completely comply. Let's see what the inspectors have to say.
If I were to move the switch to the rear of the car, it would not be nearly as safe. The tail can be broken off our car in a crash leaving the switch useless. Also, it has a chance if getting tangled in the chutes. I will debate the issue that our safety cutoff switch is actually in the safest, most readily available position possible on our car. I have a lot of thought into this detail of our design. It's engineering in both design and location was one of things that kept us from be ready for Speedweek as we knew this could not be rushed.