The blind leading the deaf.

[JackD]

In a recient communication from the bike rulers it was said the rulebook would be revised to adjust the class records to reflect all the bikes that were bumped into A as a result of the ill advised mistakes they are hanging with.
Well if you want to see a preview of how well you can expect it to be done you can look at the 3000cc class and Dave Campos APS/F and APS/G.
Is there any doubt they are push rod legal motors ?
 Now look at the APS/PF and the APS/PG records that were rewarded to a PUSH Rod motor in 04.
Gee, you mean in 30 years the Rulers and the bikes are that much slower.
Do you realize the laffer that makes of the whole thing ?
There are more now and even more in the grim future as the credibility get screwed into the ground.
How stupid is it going to get towards the end ?
I think I can see it from here.

"Failed as designed or failed by design."

[aswracing]

So they're bumping to a higher class even though the bike wasn't prepared for that higher class? And wasn't even legal in that higher class? Does that make any sense?

And what about folks who used an aftermarket motor but who's record wasn't better than the "A" class? Just tossing their record out?

And are they really going to be able to determine what kind of motor was in a bike that set a record potentially many years ago?

Retroactive classing of bikes. Hmm. So I guess that means, from now on, we're supposed to prepare our bikes based on what the rules will be in the future?

"Yeah, I know I can't do that in this class, but in a few years the record I set will be moved to that class so it's okay"

This gets more ridiculous by the minute. They're just compounding the mistake.

[aswracing]

This whole thing is symptomatic of an organization making rules open loop. Until this, I've never, ever, seen a sanctioning body that makes rules without soliciting input from the rank and file racers.

What would be so hard about publishing proposed changes and allowing a comment period? At least then maybe they'd learn a little about the ramifications of their changes. And racers wouldn't be blindisded, told about changes after they've happened.

[k.h.]

The laws of every banana republic have all the credibility the powers-that-be write into them.

M pushrod class, including numerous variations thereof that set records with aftermarket motors (already assimilated into the record books) is suffering from a rule change that suggests "level playing field competitors" do not matter.  It is anti-competition.

This surprise rule change and resulting arguments about fairness is really an issue of ethics.  

Please keep reporting this subject, keep it out in the light of day for all to see.

[landracing]

They have alot of stuff to do.

I fired off an email recently to Russ ODaley asking to volunteer on the motorcycle committee, he fired an answer back withing 12 hours saying NO. I suggested I would like to use my vote for an unbiased opinion based on suggestions from the website. He basically  "I'm not interested in those personal opinions." SO they ask for volunteers they they decline to take help and another opinion.

I immediately fired off three new emails to him over a week ago.
with these questions in mind. NO response has been given on these questions.

And its hard to get a motorcycle respresentation at board meetings if the head of motorcycles doesn't show up at the meetings and ask the racers questions.

1. Propose to have the motorcycle meeting at the evening hours instead of during the racing day.

2. If S&S cases are illegal in M class then the records should be moved from M class to A class if used an aftermarket case. So people racing  now will not have to compete against those performance advantages.

3. I asked for a list of the motorcycle commitee and advisory committee so I can see who is making the rule changes. Who are our leaders in the motorcycle rules that advise and vote on the rule changes.

Their have been several who have emailed and got no response from Russ on certain topics. THe other issue is the "Motorcycle Meeting" was a closed meeting by invitation only at Russ house. There was no open house to come to it. As I understand it the "Car" meeting was more of an open house.

I suggested that he could post here and keep people in the light of day on the happenings with new rule changes.. No response on that.

I can only thank DAN WARNER for his time coming here and helping with the car questions (there are many others too that answer, thank you).. As least the car guys have some help.... The bikers however are times behind....

Jon

[k.h.]

Is the problem fear, superstition, or ignorance?  Or are the insiders the only enlightened ones and the outsiders doomed to be kept in the dark?

Oh, oh.  I'm starting to write like JackD, the original illuminati.

[JackD]

You know that I know how to turn up the heat.
I have certainly given every chance for a correction on both sides but they continue to rule from a dark spot. With the proper light they scatter like roaches.
The media is chomping at the bit to publish the story and from what I have seen , it would not be kind.
I would hope that it can be fixed from within.
Figure out who benefited from the classless reward I mentioned as a single example and that will point you in the direction you already are looking.
Many of you are more wordy than I and that is really my objective. As long as you are content to live under a rock, you will be.  Bringing out the best in you is the worst for them and keeps you under foot.
You know they read it here and hate it.
"Backroom deals generate backroom results."
As for having a dog in the fight, he makes a lot better friend than enemy.

[aswracing]

2. If S&S cases are illegal in M class then the records should be moved from M class to A class if used an aftermarket case. So people racing  now will not have to compete against those performance advantages.

So instead of putting future class competitors at a disadvantage, the better choice is to put past racers at a disadvantage? Why?

Those records were set without the other advantages afforded to a true "A" bike. You're now making them vulnerable because you're putting them in a class where others can prepare a bike beyond what those records were set with.

Bottom line, somebody is going to get screwed. Why should it be the current record holders? How is that any more fair than screwing the future competitors? I don't understand the logic.

They're trying to fix a mistake by making another one on top of it. It's stoopid. They ought to just fix the damn mistake, and then put a process in place that keeps them from doing something like that again, i.e. get feedback from those who are affected by their rule changes BEFORE putting them in place. What a concept. It ain't rocket science.

[JackD]

When it was in the hands of the entrants the rules allowed it.
Forgotten but not gone are the thousands of HD clone bikes out their that remain legal with S+S kit motors. Because the rulers don't own one, they are not considered.
I could go on and on and I think I will.

[k.h.]

I understand f*rts stink so that deaf people can enjoy them, too.  Does this pass anyone's smell test??

This rule change "Gibt's kein Hand oder Fuss," for which I await an official translation by Porkpie, but it literally says "it has neither hand or foot" and means "it makes no sense."

As long as the rule makers get to be right, and the sport is changed (in my never humble opinion) NOT for the better, then let this circumstance be a beacon to the motorsports world that fair competition plays second fiddle to the whims of a few who get to be right and wrong at the same time.

Guffaw.

[Bob Drury]

Jeez, if I change a few words, and insert my own, this would sound like my beef with the classic classes... no entrant input, rules that not only don't make sense but were implemented  with no logical reason, etc., etc................

[Sumner]

To me who doesn't understand half of what this rule change means, I would think the logical (no one is logical so this doesn't stand a chance) thing to do would be to say "we are going back to last years rules until the whole matter can be reconsidered with proper input".

Another "logical" thing to me would be unless a rule is implemented for safety it would be announced a minimum of 2 years before going into effect to allow for "proper" input and enough lead time to make decisions on where you want to proceed with your race car/bike.

Sometimes the best thing to do is to admit to a mistake even though it can be the hardest thing to do.  

Actually I think some car guy is behind this hoping to p**s the bikes guys off so they go to the BUB meet and make the lines shorter for us car guys

c ya, Sum

[aswracing]

Another "logical" thing to me would be unless a rule is implemented for safety it would be announced a minimum of 2 years before going into effect to allow for "proper" input and enough lead time to make decisions on where you want to proceed with your race car/bike.

+1

This change costed me a PILE of money. Never saw it coming.

[k.h.]

Now look at the APS/PF and the APS/PG records that were rewarded to a PUSH Rod motor in 04.

APS-PF  8/04 142.875.  APS-PG 8/04 120.392.  Those being in the 3000cc class.  

Hello?  Wot's this?  Ipso facto, aswracing's 2004 record in the 1650 MPS/PG class is 205.642.   Not to detract from anyone's accomplishments with particualr equipment, but this drives the point home that aftermarket motors just plain offer the opportunity to make bikes go schnell, schneller, am schnellsten (fast, faster, fastest).

Gee, why would one not be disappointed?

No independent input from outside the inner circle?  Off hand, I'd say if one is measuring the "arc of transcendence" in LSR, or "who can tinkle the farthest," the contest is going to be won by this very self-same open forum website.  It trumps the revisionists of LSR history who overlook or magically make records disappear, it overshadows egos even bigger than mine.  History is written by the winners.  The legacy some will leave, apparently want to leave (whether they appreciate it in the long run or not,) shall not be theirs to mask or change to serve an agenda dictated behind the scenes.  This site wins by openness.

I'm certainly willing to read an insider's explanation of the M rule change.

[Nortonist 592]

I'll pose this question that I asked on another thread.  The 2006 rulebook now reads "Modified Production" as opposed to the 2005 rulebook's "Modified".  Do "Modified Production" now have to attack last years "Modified" class records.  Or will "Modified Production" get new class records to shoot at?  "Gee Grandad did you really only have 1800 classes back then?"