Looking to get started with a 1995 Ford Thunderbird

[Frankie7799]

The way this discussion has headed has helped me as Ive been trying to figure out which way to go once I commit to building something. That was one of the big reasons why I wanted to go to El Mo so much last week, to get a better idea of things. As it stands now I wont make my first trip to the salt until the World FInals next year as the week of Speedweek I cant get off from work. But in a sense thats a good thing as itll give me time to accumulate some things Ill need to start a build and once I get an exposure to both EM and the salt I might be a bit better prepared to start on something. The hardest thing for me is coming from a dragster/altered background Im leaning toward a lakester, roadster or an RMR. With a miniscule budget I know Im not gonna set the world on fire but a red hat would be my ultimate goal. I do have the good fortune of having a 200 and 300 club member living here in town that has offered to assist me once I figure out what I wanna do. Thanks guys for not only helpiing Eaton but me as well.

[JustaRacer]

IMO...

As a professional gear crasher, I can say that LSR doesn't load the gears like other racing does.

I can shatter a Ford 9" on the start line drag racing.  Too much weight, too much torque.

However, it wasn't phased at 7100lb at 200mph on salt.  I'd never run it on pavement though.  That gets an 11.5 axle that can't be broken by mortals. 

IRS's aren't always weak.  The Getrag units will absorb a huge amount of abuse.  I twisted 1/2 shafts without hurting the IRS before an idiot decided that a 7200 rpm launch on the last day of Carlsbad would put on a good show.  I moved about 6" and pieces bounced off the back wall.  Not sure about the Ford piece, but I was impressed with the late GM unit.   

Load it up on a dyno at the target speed, then pull the engine down.  If it's going break, it will do it on the dyno.  Use a infrared therm to check case temp.  More than 180 could be problems. 

[Buickguy3]

   Salt Cat 1 is a 1984 Jag XJ-6 and the IRS in it is a Dana 44 of the type used back in the 50's. We hahe run it on the Salt for several years and have had no problems at all. Gear selection in the upper ranges is the only issue. We will probably switch it out for some form of quick change when it comes back to the Salt about 2014 season.
   Doug 

[Gary Perkinson]

I would think that a '95 T-bird is probably an excellent low-budget platform for LSR, but personally, I would LOVE to run a '64 to '66 'bird (or a '58 to '60 Squarebird). You don't see too many of those in drag or land-speed racing, probably because they weigh close to 5,000 lbs. I would still do it, though, if my garage weren't so small--I can barely fit my 300zx in there now, let alone work on it... 

[EatonRacing]

Just some examples of HP vs aero/frontal area to make 215mph.

Good luck,

~JH

Thanks for this. Where did you find these numbers? They have been elusive to me for about a month. 500HP is an easy bar to jump.  How much is to be said for the fact that the Ford Probe is a shorter wheelbase and lighter car?  I would imagine it would be hard to handle on the salt.

Can you find the numbers for the '50 Ford coupe?

[BHR301]

Here is a good place to start.
http://www.mayfco.com/dragcoef.htm

Bill

[Tom Maioli]

Is there anything in print that gives the cd of various cars or body styles?

[EatonRacing]

Here is a good place to start.
http://www.mayfco.com/dragcoef.htm

Bill

Thanks for the link.

I don't fully understand this. It's missing a legend for the horizontal Cd x A  lines. He says they go from 4 to 20 but in what increments?

[Jonny Hotnuts]

Insert Quote
Is there anything in print that gives the cd of various cars or body styles?

I dont know where the good Dr. Mayfield got his info but it seems to be pretty decent. That being said I am sure the data was not derived from a single independent testing agency and have often wondered how accurate it really is.

I have seen instances were automotive/MC manufactures are very generous with HP ratings, really....I am not even joking manufactures have not been 100% truthful however hard it is to believe!......Unless all the vehicles are tested for CdA with the same conditions I will bet that much of the info out there is not necessarily 100% accurate......although it is a good place to start looking.


....also.....

depending on class many things can be done to a vehicle to improve the Cd. The 'A' (frontal area) is much harder. A 747 has an impressive Cd of .031 but you can bet the bank it will take a significant amount of HP to move it 215!


AND....

Red = 4
Green = 6
Blue = 8

and so on in X of 2......

~JH

[EatonRacing]

This has a CD of .30  But the front area is rather large.

I went and looked at the Thunderbird in the original post.  The car runs good, but it has been sitting so it needs all the typical things like brakes, bushings, fluids and bearings. The motor and tranny felt good. I even talked her down another $100 and then she said she did not have an actual title.    She's going to try to get one and call me back.  I do think the car would be pretty awesome for racing though, hell I wanted to make it a daily driver.

[t russell]

Lawson Billhardt's 90 SC ran the irs.the problem was gears,2.46 was as low as we could find.the v6 block was the weak spot(came apart with 27lbs of boost )
I would find a super coupe with a 5 speed and change it to a 4.6/5.4 that may make a 200mph car that lives. good luck.
terry

[jimmy six]

Welcome and I hope you have fun. If you don't have a rulebook, get one or two, then forget everything you learned in building drag racing vehicles (OK-OK 80% of it).

If your going to build a coupe from what I've seen buy somewhere between 500 and a 1000 feet of oversize roll bar tubing and that probably won't be enough.  .

Look at all the safety stuff needed and tire/wheel combination before you start; and remember all of it will be for the speed record of your class not what you are planning on running. Some are near 300.

I personnaly feel the fun is in the building of the car yourself but it seems buying a completed/ inspected car maybe the way to go. I know where there is one of those '85+ birds are with a blown big block but it would needs some upgrades as it hasn't been run lately and I don't know about it being for sale. It has been well over 200 back when Mike Cook's was running close to 300 with his.

After running for years with a steel body coupe at Bonneville I'm glad I now run a fiberglass roadster..........Good Luck you will get a lot of help here.......

[Hot Rod Lincoln]

This has a CD of .30  But the front area is rather large.

I went and looked at the Thunderbird in the original post.  The car runs good, but it has been sitting so it needs all the typical things like brakes, bushings, fluids and bearings. The motor and tranny felt good. I even talked her down another $100 and then she said she did not have an actual title.    She's going to try to get one and call me back.  I do think the car would be pretty awesome for racing though, hell I wanted to make it a daily driver.

that T-Bird is a good baseline to work from, we have one too for a future project:



Very good CD and frontal area.  It's actually better than our MKViii. If I recall the T-Bird has a 40 hp advantage to achieve 200 mph over the Lincoln.

If I had the money I'd love to build a Ford Probe with our Esslinger in it, but that project would have to wait until after the Merkur project ( it's only the money holding me back. Rats )

Let us know if you got the car and if you plan on running it this year. if you make it to the salt drop by our pit.

Jon 

[Hot Rod Lincoln]

As stated, you'd be better off with a 9" rear-end. the stock ones are limited on gear choices. We swapped in the QC in the Mk Viii. First and only time we swapped gear sets at the salt took less than 40 minutes from beginning to end. That QC makes things damn easy.

anyway good luck with your project, and if you make it to the salt this year drop by and say Hi.


Jon