Author Topic: Classing a Vehicle - Biodisel Car  (Read 5911 times)

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Drifter

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Classing a Vehicle - Biodisel Car
« on: April 24, 2006, 06:03:11 PM »
Hello everyone;

Our team is in the process of converting a 1986 Ford EXP from a gas powered vehicle to one that will run strictly on Bio-Diesel. We will be using a 2.0 liter engine from a 1987 Ford Escort.

From our research, it looks as if the EXP is a /GT class vehicle and our engine size would be G. But as this is to be a bio-diesel (not gas) vehicle... I am not sure this would be accurate.

We are newbies in every sense of the word at this point so any guidance that can be provided would be greatly appreciated.

Thank You

Offline Dave Cox

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Classing a Vehicle - Biodisel Car
« Reply #1 on: April 24, 2006, 06:24:19 PM »
Hi Drifter. I'm not 100% positive, but you can run a diesel in any car class but vintage, but you'll be considered a fueler (running a non-gasoline liquid fuel). This will put you at a great disadvantage.

I'd suggest running in Diesel Truck (/DT) class, you can run in A, B, C, D, E, F, G and H engine sizes. The other diesel-only categories (UDT, MDT and HH) have no engine displacement breaks. Good body choice is VW Rabbit Pickup or Toyota mini truck (Cheap and easy).

Good luck!

Dave

Offline Stan Back

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Classing a Vehicle - Biodisel Car
« Reply #2 on: April 24, 2006, 06:29:06 PM »
Couldn't run in Gas Coupe or Production classes, either (on Fuel).  But could run Fuel Altered or Fuel Comp Coupe with the Diesel classified as "Fuel".
Past (Only) Member of the San Berdoo Roadsters -- "California's Most-Exclusive Roadster Club" -- 19 Years of Bonneville and/or El Mirage Street Roadster Records

Offline Dave Cox

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Classing a Vehicle - Biodisel Car
« Reply #3 on: April 24, 2006, 06:32:31 PM »
Oops, missed those.

Probably couldn't run in the diesel truck class either, since Drifter wants to run Bio-diesel, all diesel classes must run on pump diesel.

Drifter, I'd guess you'll have to run as a fueler.

Dave

Drifter

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Classing a Vehicle - Biodisel Car
« Reply #4 on: April 25, 2006, 11:46:15 AM »
First of all, thank you for the quick replies...

Just a little background; We opted for a Ford EXP because our car club (www.FordEXP.com) is made up of enthusiasts for that particular car. The decision to do Bio-Diesel arose out of discussions on our forums about alternative fuels.. the idea of bringing it to the salt... well thats just cool 8)

Again, please forgive my ignorance, I just want to make sure that we class ourselves properly. Nothing is worse then standing in line for hours just to find that your paperwork is wrong...

Swapping the gas engine for a diesel pulls us out of the Production categories. (This makes sense, since Ford never produced a Diesel EXP.)
So this puts us in the modified category under Fuel Altered ("Fueler"?).

As the 1986 EXP was a two seater, I guess this would make our final category would be Fuel Modified Sport (/FMS)...

Yeah I see your point about being at a disadvantage running Bio-Diesel here...  :)

Offline Stan Back

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Classing a Vehicle - Biodisel Car
« Reply #5 on: April 25, 2006, 12:30:35 PM »
Isn't a Ford ESP a GT, but a Mercury LN7 (?) a Coupe?  Can you enlighten us, Jack?
Past (Only) Member of the San Berdoo Roadsters -- "California's Most-Exclusive Roadster Club" -- 19 Years of Bonneville and/or El Mirage Street Roadster Records

Offline JackD

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« Reply #6 on: April 25, 2006, 08:11:50 PM »
The Ford EXP was produced and offered for at least 1 Year as a 4 seater to encourage slow sales by having the car qualify for the cheaper insurance for a 4 seater instead of a 2 seater. It had a notch back hatch. rear seat with belts and was registered with the DOT that way. It was that assembly I used for the gas coupe and up series of entries.
I actually had 3 cars with 2 of them outfitted as racers.
The other combination we ran was the Mercury LN7 that was a fast back 2 seater with a rear package tray instead of a seat. It also had a different front end detail.
Both cars were painted the same and were often confused with each other.
The original car was an LN7 that ran Bonneville as a Mercury project when Don De Bring was running the same motor in a liner.
The second car I built when Elmo ragged on me for using the same car for lots of stuff. I built it to fit Wendy and she set a record with it at El Mirage on the first pass of the season and the first pass for her.
Diesel operation of that motor won't have the strength to develop enough HP to be competitive so the class is less important than the required safety items. Bio Diesel is part of the future and I would encourage the applicant to do whatever might be required to have it allowed in the class with all the other diesel cars like a gasser.
Your personnel best with a well documented run should be your objective because a class record would be out of reasonable reach as long as you ran with the spark ignition bunch.
Remember the high compression ratio and the slow burn are quite a different animal. Make it so it lasts all week and that will be a lot more satisfying.
I don't know who you have slated to drive it but Wendy would be a good start.
Well that is what I think any way. :wink:
"I would rather lose going fast enough to win than win going slow enough to lose."
"That horrible smell is dirty feet being held to the fire"

Offline }{ead$hot Zod

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Classing a Vehicle - Biodisel Car
« Reply #7 on: April 25, 2006, 09:12:28 PM »
Drifter, I had a similar idea. I posted about this about a year or so ago and discovered that there wasn't a true fuel class for pick-up trucks. Which was too bad. But after emailing the event fuel person and one of the guys from gear grinders I sort of gave up on the idea.

This years rulebook has hybrids running in the equivalent cubic inch gasoline class. Well what about diesel hybrids?. That conjurs up nightmares of the el caminos and el rancheros that never appear. I think the Prius had its voltage jacked up which unless I'm mistaken would be illegal for this years run. So the battery pack is really ballast now. oh well

I think there should be a production diesel class for cars and a fuel class for diesel cars.  But I was told they really don't want to create new classes. Maybe the biodiesel & wvo people should start showing up for 130 club runs and time only runs at Bonneville, El mirage and Maxton. And volunteering when they can. I purchased a bunch of domain names the other day including www.greenrodders.com. So I should have a site and forums ready to go.  I'm looking to get bio and wvo people together who want to go to car shows and LSR events.

I just got my number (#284 woohoo!!) 2 weeks ago and I'll be going out in September to try for the 130 club and then I need to race back to Boston for the www.AltWheels.com festival. As long as your vehicle is street legal you can run almost any fuel for the club runs.

If you want I'll email ya when the site is up.
1992 Dodge D250 Cummins running biodiesel and waste vegetable oil.

#284 ?/DT

"I don't do use drugs but my truck does"
->Stage III Meth injector.

http://FriedDiesel.blogspot.com

Drifter

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Classing a Vehicle - Biodisel Car
« Reply #8 on: April 26, 2006, 08:53:25 AM »
Quote
Diesel operation of that motor won't have the strength to develop enough HP to be competitive ... Your personnel best with a well documented run should be your objective because a class record would be out of reasonable reach as long as you ran with the spark ignition bunch.


This is a given; we are by no means delusional enough to think that we'll be able to beat a record for a gas powered vehicle in the same class.

With no diesel (or bio-diesel) class, our goal has always been to have a well documented run as Jack has suggested.

I'm not advocating adding or changing classes, I could only imagine what a hassle that would be especially when you consider all the variables that can be applied.

Another challenge greasers face is that even with a certified run, we need to have some sort of agency keep track of who actually has the fastest grease car or truck. I need to work on this...  :(

Quote
Bio Diesel is part of the future and I would encourage the applicant to do whatever might be required to have it allowed in the class with all the other diesel cars like a gasser.


There is a lot of interest in this and other alt fuels right now and I predict that it will just continue to grow. To some extent, we are trying to break new ground.

The trick for those of us wanting to run strict biodiesel or wvo (fuel made from waste vegetable oil like french fry grease) may be to do what Jack is suggesting and run our diesels like gassers and keep our documentation. This way it would be easy go back later and segregate everyone back out should there be a rule change later down the road.

BTW Headshot, please keep me up to date on your project and the websites, I think we have our work cut out for us.

Offline }{ead$hot Zod

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Classing a Vehicle - Biodisel Car
« Reply #9 on: April 26, 2006, 08:56:05 AM »
That we do and I shall...............
1992 Dodge D250 Cummins running biodiesel and waste vegetable oil.

#284 ?/DT

"I don't do use drugs but my truck does"
->Stage III Meth injector.

http://FriedDiesel.blogspot.com

Offline JackD

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« Reply #10 on: April 26, 2006, 12:40:24 PM »
We covered most of that in a phone call that was very productive.
 But 1 on 1 ***infirmation  the  has very limited value and
no chance for another experience or opinion.
This forum puts it out front as it should be and will
 not only generate more information but answer a lot of questions that might go unanswered.
And that goes for top to bottom in this sport.
 The big problem is the top seems to forget they started in the bottom and has their head grows
 larger the have a tougher time putting it back in their bottom , but they don't give up.
I would bet the Bio-diesel would be easy to document given the suppliers interest in developing the resource.
 The day will never come that you drive through a burger joint for a fill up  because they
 still have to filter out  finger tips and the
chicken bones. LOL
:wink:

*** INFIRMATION is spelled the way I want it
"I would rather lose going fast enough to win than win going slow enough to lose."
"That horrible smell is dirty feet being held to the fire"

Offline }{ead$hot Zod

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Classing a Vehicle - Biodisel Car
« Reply #11 on: April 26, 2006, 12:53:01 PM »
At least the scta evolves in the right direction. I just caught a show yesterday that nascar is thinking about going to a single body style in few years. Yuck, I guess they forgot how bad the IROC series was.
1992 Dodge D250 Cummins running biodiesel and waste vegetable oil.

#284 ?/DT

"I don't do use drugs but my truck does"
->Stage III Meth injector.

http://FriedDiesel.blogspot.com

Flaircraft

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Classing a Vehicle - Biodisel Car
« Reply #12 on: June 28, 2006, 01:34:40 PM »
Hey Drifter, amazingly enough I have a 1987 Ford Escort Diesel that I run on Bio.  Actually I have run it on WVO too but that's another story...  anyways it tops out at about 85 mph.  If you were forced to run in the Fuel class, maybe you could try propane injection for a little extra kick :)  Best wishes and hope to see you there someday!