Author Topic: GMC 270H Head  (Read 13400 times)

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Offline 38flattie

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Re: GMC 270H Head
« Reply #15 on: March 04, 2012, 06:05:31 PM »
Dan, that's what I'm counting on!
With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine. However, this is not necessarily a good idea. It is hard to be sure where they are going to land, and it could be dangerous sitting under them as they fly overhead. -- RFC 1925

You can't make a race horse out of a pig. But if you work hard enough at it you can make a mighty fast pig. - Bob Akin

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Offline panic

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Re: GMC 270H Head
« Reply #16 on: March 05, 2012, 11:58:29 PM »
I have a fair intuitive grasp of "where would the air like to go" (in an undeveloped head, I wouldn't touch a modern engine), and the 302 head has some obvious areas where small changes are likely to be both safe and beneficial.

I agree that with low static CR a dome is less of a problem in a 270 than 11:1 CR, blah.
The first thing I would be doing is estimating the chamber volume in the 270 head, which will give your static CR with a zero-deck flat piston. If it's too low, you need to contour a partial dome to fill mostly the area opposite the plug, etc. This is where making a casting of the chamber will help (and trying to estimate the variation between all 6). If it's too high you need a D cup.

Offline maguromic

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Re: GMC 270H Head
« Reply #17 on: March 06, 2012, 12:34:11 AM »
Buddy, I have a 302 head I cut into pieces, if it hasn't been tossed out by some of the interlopers that show at the shop your welcome to it.  Tony
“If you haven’t seen the future, you are not going fast enough”

Offline Tman

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Re: GMC 270H Head
« Reply #18 on: March 06, 2012, 01:20:10 AM »
The use of the turbo and EFI on the GMC in your car will push you into the Modified Category.

DW

This is for his OTHER car Dan, different class altogether. A roadster :wink:

Offline Bob Drury

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Re: GMC 270H Head
« Reply #19 on: March 06, 2012, 04:08:10 AM »
  Panic, back in I believe 1999 or maybe 2000, and ran a 1960's vintage early olds(377 cu in.) junior fuel motor.
  I then decided to see what I could do with a class specific motor (435 cu. in. Early Olds).
  I contacted Ross Racing Pistons and told them what I was after.
  The bottom line is that I bolted a head on a bare block, turned it upside down, poured in about one quart of plaster of paris, sent the mold to Ross and within two weeks had the pistons I needed.
  After learning why Drag Race tune up's don't mean sh-t at Bonneville, I called Ross and had ten new pistons in a week, as they had my piston dimentions in their computer............... Bob
 p.s. eventually went 219 on Alky, hope to run it again on 25% and see if it will go 230...............  Bob
Bob Drury

Offline 38flattie

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Re: GMC 270H Head
« Reply #20 on: March 06, 2012, 06:19:58 AM »
Panic, that is what I have planned- I'll use a small popup, to raise CR.

Tony, is there anything you guys don't have-seriously? I appreciate the offer. If you can find it, I'll gladly take it off your hands, when I'm out to pick up the other stuff we spoke about. Thanks again! :-D

Bob, is that what we call 'learning the hard way'?


The use of the turbo and EFI on the GMC in your car will push you into the Modified Category.

DW

This is for his OTHER car Dan, different class altogether. A roadster :wink:



Trent, that is not correct.

...but that's a topic for a later time.
With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine. However, this is not necessarily a good idea. It is hard to be sure where they are going to land, and it could be dangerous sitting under them as they fly overhead. -- RFC 1925

You can't make a race horse out of a pig. But if you work hard enough at it you can make a mighty fast pig. - Bob Akin

http://www.flatcadracing.org/
http://youtu.be/89rVb497_4c

Offline panic

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Re: GMC 270H Head
« Reply #21 on: March 06, 2012, 12:45:05 PM »
Just steam-of-consciousness 2¢, feel free to ignore?

I'd look at the 270 chamber outline and wall thickness with an eye toward making the circumference some fraction of a regular arc (if not the entire OD), and the bowl's curved wall opposite the plug into a 3-dimensional spherical section.
Yes, it's more work, and it may not be possible (or only to such a limited extent that no cost-benefit argument can be made).

What this will do, if successful, is allow a piston with a regular geometric dome on the non-plug side which can match the wall's curvature very tightly for squish, prevent charge trapping, and insure minimum chamber volume except where you want it. You will also have interchangeable pistons, and a re-order (G_d forbid) will not take 4 hours of hand prep to "fit" the chamber.
Not everyone will agree, but such a dome/wall interface is an excellent candidate for Singh grooves arrayed radially and leading from the deck height across the dome and ending converged at the plug's location. This will allow easier escape of charge behind the dome approaching TDC, and also assist turbulence.

I picture the dome as the inverse of a "heart" shape for the open volume to give generous clearance around both valves, and tall enough to drop the volume.

Offline 38flattie

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Re: GMC 270H Head
« Reply #22 on: March 06, 2012, 01:19:52 PM »
Panic, I followed most of what you said, but not all of it. Can you post a drawing/pic of what you mean?

I don't know what Singh grooves are.
With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine. However, this is not necessarily a good idea. It is hard to be sure where they are going to land, and it could be dangerous sitting under them as they fly overhead. -- RFC 1925

You can't make a race horse out of a pig. But if you work hard enough at it you can make a mighty fast pig. - Bob Akin

http://www.flatcadracing.org/
http://youtu.be/89rVb497_4c

Offline maguromic

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Re: GMC 270H Head
« Reply #23 on: March 06, 2012, 01:45:19 PM »
Buddy, Just get in there with a welder and change the chamber shape, and long as you don't get it too thick you will be miles ahead of the curve.  Tony

Singh grooves cut in a head
« Last Edit: March 06, 2012, 01:48:09 PM by maguromic »
“If you haven’t seen the future, you are not going fast enough”

Offline 38flattie

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Re: GMC 270H Head
« Reply #24 on: March 06, 2012, 01:50:42 PM »
Haha! Tony, don't think for a minute, that we won't be trying that on this build-we will! This one is all about power!

Panic, I went to the somender-singh.com website. Looking at the ‘tests’. I cannot find much evidence to support the grooves. Less horsepower, runs with modified heads at different RPM than stock heads, more than 1 mod to head at a time, etc., cloud the tests and make them suspect, IMHP

Do you have any empirical data on the grooves? They may very well be beneficial, but more data is needed, in my opinion, to come to that conclusion.
« Last Edit: March 06, 2012, 01:53:16 PM by 38flattie »
With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine. However, this is not necessarily a good idea. It is hard to be sure where they are going to land, and it could be dangerous sitting under them as they fly overhead. -- RFC 1925

You can't make a race horse out of a pig. But if you work hard enough at it you can make a mighty fast pig. - Bob Akin

http://www.flatcadracing.org/
http://youtu.be/89rVb497_4c

Offline maguromic

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Re: GMC 270H Head
« Reply #25 on: March 06, 2012, 02:00:02 PM »
To me it looks like detonation waiting to happen. If it was so great we would have used it on the Indy engines, and we had an unlimited budget for testing.  Tony
“If you haven’t seen the future, you are not going fast enough”

Offline Tman

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Re: GMC 270H Head
« Reply #26 on: March 06, 2012, 05:44:48 PM »
Panic, that is what I have planned- I'll use a small popup, to raise CR.

Tony, is there anything you guys don't have-seriously? I appreciate the offer. If you can find it, I'll gladly take it off your hands, when I'm out to pick up the other stuff we spoke about. Thanks again! :-D

Bob, is that what we call 'learning the hard way'?


The use of the turbo and EFI on the GMC in your car will push you into the Modified Category.

DW

This is for his OTHER car Dan, different class altogether. A roadster :wink:



Trent, that is not correct.

...but that's a topic for a later time.


Between you and McTim I am getting dizzy with all the projects!

Offline 38flattie

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Re: GMC 270H Head
« Reply #27 on: March 06, 2012, 08:07:02 PM »
I talked to Mike Sissell tonight, and when I get home, the 12 port is going his way. When that head gets done, we'll start on the steel one.

Mike felt that I should go with the 302 head. He said even though both it, and the 270H, had big ports, the 302 ports were a little better.

After we have numbers on the 12 port, we'll try and at least match those numbers with the steel one. Like Tony mentioned, there may be some surgery involved!

So, thanks everyone, but I guess I don't need the 279H afterall.

I know, Rich, I know! :cheers:
With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine. However, this is not necessarily a good idea. It is hard to be sure where they are going to land, and it could be dangerous sitting under them as they fly overhead. -- RFC 1925

You can't make a race horse out of a pig. But if you work hard enough at it you can make a mighty fast pig. - Bob Akin

http://www.flatcadracing.org/
http://youtu.be/89rVb497_4c

Offline SPARKY

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Re: GMC 270H Head
« Reply #28 on: March 06, 2012, 08:48:14 PM »
lol  :-)
Miss LIBERTY,  changing T.K.I.  to noise, dust, rust, BLUE HATS & hopefully not scrap!!

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Offline hotrod

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Re: GMC 270H Head
« Reply #29 on: March 06, 2012, 09:11:58 PM »
Quote
Do you have any empirical data on the grooves? They may very well be beneficial, but more data is needed, in my opinion, to come to that conclusion.


Go over to the speedtalk forum and do a search for singh grooved heads they have been discussing them for some time and some of the participants have done various tests. Especially the advanced engine tech forum, some world class engine builders over there, and high quality discussion.

http://speedtalk.com/forum/

Larry