LSR tires

[StraightSix]

Any good tire makes in Aus? maybe DRLA could help facilitate things?  I'd think it should bypass the American lawyer layer, if you were to buy them as individuals, mail-ordered direct from the maker down under.

[JackD]

Liability can extend to the people that specify a particular product for use in their program.
The protection you think you have is all still subject to the Judicial System.

Nothing has changed JD.
When we lost someone in 84, the estate generated a lawsuit and I was the first one served. It was not my participation that was challenged but rather the deep pockets they thought I represented with insurance. They settled out of court for nuisance value with the SCTA carrier and the Hospital but did realize I would be such a tough customer and not roll over.
In 90 pages of the deposition I said bite Me.
That was Kent's first trip to the Lake Bed and it taught him business as much as anything racing.

[Bob Drury]

Michael, not to be a naesayer, but if this tire deal is being worked on by Chet Herbert, or for that fact, anyone, why is it a hush-hush deal?  If their is truley a tire deal in the works, why wouldn't it be posted on this or any other site or media publication (including BNI and SCTA).  I hate to look at the glass as half empty, and I hope that I am wrong. :

[Dynoroom]

Michael, not to be a naesayer, but if this tire deal is being worked on by Chet Herbert, or for that fact, anyone, why is it a hush-hush deal?  If their is truley a tire deal in the works, why wouldn't it be posted on this or any other site or media publication (including BNI and SCTA).  I hate to look at the glass as half empty, and I hope that I am wrong. :

This thread would be the very reason. No one said it's huh huh, just like most business deals you don't go public till it's done. The "sue" word is used often, and when ever a "deal" is in the works people jump all over it before it's ready. But to think that everyone is just sitting around waiting for tires to appear seems unlikely to me. Too many fast cars being built, I know of 5 or 6, they may have tires to start with but as time goes on they'll need 'em too.
It's OK to investigate sources for tires but you'll most likely find that the easy ones are already tapped out. If it was easy we'd have tires.
And by the way, I don't know anything, most of this is JMO.

[Bob Drury]

Michael, I am not arguing any of the points you make.  I know that Marlo is dilligently working on the 30's, that Earl, Ken and Ron Main are after 24's(or 26's, I forget), but what I feel is needed, is for any and all parties to band together, along with the SCTA, to make a concerted effort in finding ONE manufacturer to produce and distribute to ANY AND ALL cars and motorcycles.  As it is, I fear the liabitlity issue(I hate those words) might prevent Chet, or anyone else from being able to share with anyone else, for fear of the consequnces.  Honest, I am trying to see the glass as half full...........

[JackD]

When Chet's 4 motored BBC 4 wheel drive first turned a wheel on the salt it featured the largest billet aluminum things you have ever seen in place of tires.
Well that is all it did for the first little bit was turn the wheels but didn't move. Vesco drove it for only 1 mile and turned out because the vibration was so bad he couldn't see. The very next meet several weeks later it had pneumatic tires.
Go figure ?
Some people already have.

[k.h.]

So, if and when a facility that will build LSR tires is found, who amongst the powers-that-be should be told?  

No attorney me, but is some form of the following scenario feasible?:  If "the club" owns the tooling, materials, & intellectual properties, and pays a third party company to build their tires for them, is it reasonable then to have "the club" lease the tires only to members of their organization.  If a vehicle so equipped with club tires changes ownership, the new owner must sign a new lease.  Termination of club membership terminates the lease.  Each tire gets a serial #, if it is no longer in the possession of an original lessee under jurisdiction of the club, it's not legal possession and therefore subject to return to the club.  "Outlaw" possession of a tire in LSR venues would void liability by unauthorized use.

Tires will appear when people really want them and the money is available.  Tire companies are not charitable organizations, nor much interested in LSR the way they were 40 years ago.  All that is needed is one willing to do the work.

[JackD]

Many things are manufactured with a liability that goes back to the builder and everybody along the way. Most of the cost for a step ladder is in insurance and warnings. So none of that is imposable including almost fireproof protection for the organizations associated with the product.
The age old problem is money. Most things are built for a profit in a continuing enterprise. Our field is very limited and we have the reputation of using it past it's reasonable life time.
We have to establish a better reputation for those kinds of things or I can see the end from here.
SCTA has the money, with an improved method to manage the tires like you suggested the prospect is a lot better.
We can use our resources at SEMA that would be very friendly to us to great advantage. We should decide how much we have to spend and ask them for help to get past the legal entanglements so we can make some progress.

[Bob Drury]

Jack, it seems the first step would or should be for one of the SCTA member clubs to present a proposal to the SCTA Board.  I feel the only way to get the ball rolling is for some action to be taken.  This seems to be one of those issues where everybody is waiting for someone else to do the work.  I don't think depending on the "deep pockets" is the answer.  As I stated in a earlier post, I don't even need these tires, the Goodyear 28's work for me(aftrer buying a three grand quick change,ulp!), but having my mind altered watching Al Teague go by at about 375, I don't want to see the fast cars silenced.  I also worry about those cars and drivers trying to get "one to many" runs out of what they now have.........

[JackD]

First thing is to be sure that all the Clubs are represented on the Board.
 They spend a lot of time fighting to be "King of the Hill" at the long term expense to the membership.
That expense goes beyond just money into self serving motives that will ruin it.
In a recent declaration by a board member, the display of the financial records for the association was said to be illegal by a person that should know better.
That is where you are starting from.

[jimmy six]

As stated by many of the last Boards of Directors. (25 years of listening)The SCTA is NOT in the tire business. With that said, I have no idea what the current Board would do and I won't be there to comment or listen. . . .Good Luck

[desotoman]

In our current money hungry society, I would personally rather not see the SCTA get involved with either producing, leasing, or marketing tires. There is just no way it could ever be a win win situation for the SCTA. If anything it could end up being the down fall of the whole organization.

   What I would suggest is the owners of all the 300mph plus cars pool their assets and talk to tire company's on their own behalf. This way there would be limited if any liability on the SCTA. I personally would rather see this route taken.

   Of the 400 plus entries at Bonneville, what percentage run over 300mph? Lets just pick a number and say 10% do. Do we really want to risk the solvency of the BNI for less than 10% of it membership? What about the other 90% of the entries?

Regards,
Tom Gerardi

[Dave Cox]

I agree there's no easy answer, but I can't imagine a Bonneville meet with no one being able to try to exceed 300 mph due to lawyers influence. If I want to see 300 mph runs, I can go watch the drags.

The help of an organization like the SCTA could be very influential in getting some tires made. I can't imagine a gang of 40 or so "rag-tag" salt racers wanting to go 400+ having any creedence with a tire manufacturer. Maybe a famous 50+ year old organization would have a little more pull...

And those 90% folks, how many want to break 300? 400??

It's for the good of Landspeed racing that we work as a single body.

Dave

[JackD]

When the last batch of BNI brand tires were organized by them with borrowed money, they were all used by cars under 300mph.
The 6ply Goodyear tires everybody likes so well were all built at the same time for an individual project and they were made available to everyone. Most were consumed under 300 mph.
The MT tires were as the result of him speaking on our behalf during his life time to a company that he didn't own.
The liability to the organization is the same regardless of whose tires the SCTA allows to run.
I would think the responsible thing to do would have some degree of control to reduce the risk to all or get out of the racing business.
When MT was sold to Cooper, we let a good opportunity go to get all of the available tires in house. Instead, we sat on our flat tires and let them go to a company that saw them as more of a liability than an asset,and that left us sitting on our assets.
I guess that would make SCTA
"The Home of the World's Half Fastest Speed Trials."

[k.h.]

Maybe this website is going to be, or already is, the tail that wags the dog on this issue.  

I was told "no" for LSR tires by a small domestic tire manufacturer just today.  And put out two more feelers.  If they will do 600 mph tires, then the 400-500 mph needs shouldn't be a problem.

Hope triumphs over experience.