Motorcycle displacement issues...

[panic]

[JackD]

I wanna get a whole fleet of them Trumpets and rent them out by the day.
They will run in a different class every year by virtue of just the rulebook changes and with a different rider every day. The business is almost endless..
They only have to go half fast to get one of them  "World Records" papers.
 We will rent to the rider with the appropriate prior reservations.
The naming rights "YOUR  NAME HERE" will be sold separately and all by mail if you are unable to actually travel.
Combined with the rules, it would seem to be the best money can buy.

The contest is really jumping.
 I will be interested to see where they land.

OBTW: A number of people actually know quite a bit amoung the "OLDER  MODELS", It is the "NEWER MODELS" that cause all the trouble. The features of the bikes are well established and predictable.

"Was it a design that failed or did it fail by design ?"

[Nortonist 592]

We're all whining about the changes on this thread when we shoud be looking to that guy in Texas, I think.  He took a boat anchor aka a BSA M20 and got it to run 108 at Bonneville.  So far I have'nt seen any posts from him.

[dwarner]

I have an idea for a contest for the best caustic or harsh remark related to the rules or rules makers of the day.
A week will take too long and I think there is enough brain power around to make it really interesting.
The prize would be the satisfaction that you did your part towards the continuity of the sport and not the certain death.
*****************************************
I too have an idea for a contest.

Let's have Jack D propose his ideas for a revised M/C rules package.

The prize would be a very happy and respected portion of the LSR community.

DW

[JackD]

It would feature a lot less space and a lot more race.
Bikes would be easy to identify and the rules too.
Entries, performance, safety, and people would be real.
 Redreaming something up every time somebody has a personnel objective should be limited to the services provided with the World's Oldest Profession.
There are going to be bikes and rules that are specific to the sport, but don't make them specific to your friends that are actually the enemy of the rest.
When you make exceptions to that they better be for a good enough reason to apply to all the entries or perhaps it is not such a good idea.
Going fast starts and ends with preparation to the rules and not change the rules to match the lack of preparation you have.
The car program has it's problems for sure but they actually do pretty good. Just around here for example you don't see the dreaded words that seem to follow the bike program.  I guess you gotta ask yourself why is that and how far back do we have to go to fix it ? Certainly it has not always been that screwed up has it ? With more people involved from the start, the combined brain power will generate fewer mistakes and favoritism that it suffers from today.

"Mistakes can be forgiven, lies are forever."

Arnch glad Ya asked ?

[panic]

[Sumner]

As I understand it, the purpose of more than 1 class (total) is to provide a venue for machines to compete without domination by a larger, etc. engine.
The obvious methods (separate classes) are IMHO already long since out of control (1000 more classes won't fix anything), in fact many of the existing classes separate very similar vehicles which could be more evenly matched with handicapping (as used in horseracing - our parent sport), as is now done in vintage motorcycle.....................This should already have been done in the vintage motorcycle class, since no other sanctioning body compresses the entire history of the pre-1956 motorcycle (40 years in practical terms) into only 2 classes. For example: VG500 should be dominated by Norton OHC Manx and similar Grand Prix Isle of Man winning bikes, but is also the only choice for pedestrian types such as the BSA OHV M33 (with 1/2 the power). In addition to basic design differences, there are also vast differences in development. As is, the H-D 45" solo 1929-39 (25hp) runs heads-up against the WLD, WLDR, WR factory racing versions (32 to 45hp), and even against the K, KK unit motors (32hp), and KR unit racers (56hp?). In fact, the 1955 KR (only) has almost all of the serious parts made for this engine (1/4-speed oil pump, big rod set), and should be specifically removed from vintage or given a different displacement advantage.

Panic I'm trying to follow what you are saying, but having some difficulty.  Help me out.  

First it seems you are saying less classes with handicaps and then further down you are saying some motors have a definite disadvantage over others due to inferior designs at the factory level.

This same thing happens with the cars.  Why are so many people running small/big block chevys, hemis, some ford motors and not other makes?  Simple, some of these designs were better from the factory and more speed parts were thus made for them.  To try and rearrange the rules so that some inferior motor designs were allowed to be competitive would be a step backwards in my opinion.  Those motors can still be run if a person wants to design his own parts to make them competitive or just likes to run them because he likes to be different.

Maybe I'm not following what you are saying .

---------------------------

Jack, Dan has suggested you actually come up with a set of alternative rules that are "specific" and submit them maybe here for review and to SCTA.  Seems reasonable to me .  I'm sure doing something like that might actually result in getting the ball rolling amongst you bike guys in a constructive way .

c ya, Sum

[JackD]

All of the other series you mention are racing events that can have a new winner every week and a new series when the demand exists. Speed records are quite different and should have a clear definition of the entry. The best result of that combination built to the rules should last until somebody goes faster with the same rules.
I am all for preservation of the heritage represented by the long history but the way it is handled now with bikes is a laffer.

[panic]

[JackD]

Speed records are quite different and should have a clear definition of the entry. The best result of that combination built to the rules should last until somebody goes faster with the same rules.

But, of course, the new vintage rules have just ruined that for sidevalves already, haven't they?
Why not change, at the very least, the sidevalve rules before there are new records set, new requests made for dispensation, etc.?

The VINTAGE ENGINE rules actually go back quite a few years and perhaps a little more thought going into it by the same persons might have been well advised.

[panic]

[panic]

[JackD]

Consistent ,and educated enforcement is all important.
Does everybody remember the picture around here of the bike on the line to run at Bonneville ? It was noted the bare backed rider with the jacket and pants also had his foot right at the end of the exhaust. How did that happen ?
The person that Scott mentions was not really any faster than the rules would allow for anybody but the difference was he did all is preparation at home and didn't believe anybody owed him any more than equal treatment.
That same person did a lot of work on behalf of the VINTAGE  category bikes when they were first proposed that took a lot of time. Most of that fell on deaf ears and the resultant mistakes were just beginning.

The contest is really jumping.

[Nortonist 592]

I fully realize that nitrous can make anything fast.  And he did make it fly.  An M20 was designed as a military bike for running communications during the war.  It was'nt designed to go fast.  A lot of bikes are designed as commutors and have no pretense to speed.  To cater for these machines is wrong.  If a '55 Harley has all the right bits for speed then people are goig to use that model.  To handicap it so that a '32 Harley is competitive with it is wrong.  To take that line of thinking to its logical conclusion then we would wind up woth a step thru Honda 50 being on the same playing field with John Noonan's machine.  We need different classes as not everyone wants to go 200+.  But it is also time to realize that some motors were not designed for speed and don't necessarily fall into a class where they can be competitive.  It might also be worth noting that in 13 years time CB750 Hondas will be vintage and all the "advantages" that flatheads enjoy now won't be worth a damn.

[JohnR]

I too have an idea for a contest.

Let's have Jack D propose his ideas for a revised M/C rules package.

The prize would be a very happy and respected portion of the LSR community.

DW

Yeah, but thats not as easy as shooting flaming arrows and using the rolling eyes smiley! ...