Engine Cases M vs A How about This

[landracing]

ok still no response from the MC commitee on my email.. I guess it may take a week or so to research or formulate an opinion so not yet...

Will look again when I get to Australia... We are about 1 hour away from flight..

Jon

[JackD]

I'll give this new admistratiion a chance and see what happens hopefully they can do good, they have the car side of the rules pretty dialed in. if not we can replace them next election
Kent

That only works if someone steps up to be voted for. Not many want the job!

That is funny because that is exactly why the president ran is because he thought nobody else wanted it.
Could it be that something else was wrong ?
His late entry write in opponent was only a few votes behind so that indicates a pretty strong feeling about something.
"That's Irritainment."

[JackD]

As you say S&S have produced thousands of motors.  Does that make them legal to use in a Harley frame?  Where is the line that S&S crosses and becomes a Harley motor?  Which begs another question.  If I buy a Big Bear chopper can I run it in production?

Sometimes I amaze myself but when I read the rule book, I am amazed.
A HD in a Big Dog chopper might be a class A.
An S&S in a Big Dog chopper is Production and M but not A.
An S&S in a HD might be a nothing.
Don't Ya get it ?
The answers are obvious if you consider that the question is not understood nor the problem it resolves.
Rules that go beyond thought are really tough to get back and defend.
Rules without reason are their own reward and for no other reason than is imagined by the ruler.


***ADMINISPHERE: The rarefied organizational layers beginning just above the rank and file.
 Decisions that fall from the adminisphere are often profoundly inappropriate or irrelevant to the problems they were designed to solve.

[Nortonist 592]

My previous post was an attempt at being facetious.  Tom Evans explained the reasoning behind this rule change and it made no sense to me.  It was fixing a problem that did'nt exist.  Or the peceived problem could have been resolved much easier.  As it stands now the way the rule is written, if your engine did'nt come out of the same factory as the frame, you run in A.  The rule does'nt state most of the engine or some parts of the engine.  It says the engine.  Presumably meaning the whole engine.  I don't think spirit enters into it either.

[JackD]

So if you run a production class you can run anything inside the engine as long as it measures OK for CC. If you run in M, you have to use all stock parts.
If you put a Honda motor in a Suzuki you are a gas coupe at least if you are a car. If You put a Honda motor in a Suzuki bike , you are a nothing and should go home unless you get the rulebook next month and you can just stay home.
Just when I think I got it all together, I forgot why and where I put it.
 Then when somebody reads it with me or to me, they are the bad guy right ?
"Failure as designed or designed to fail"?

[k.h.]

Hmmm.  How about creating an "aftermarket cases" class for M?  There appears to be an overall shortage of motorcycle classes and a few hundred more open records might be just the ticket.  Just accepting S&S cases in M would be too easy a solution to a problem that didn't exist until recently.

[JackD]

So you are proposing kinda of an S&M class.
Where beating somebody is actually better if you go slow.
That just might fill some real needs that seem to go wanting.
You may have something.

This is too easy.

[Dynoroom]

That is funny because that is exactly why the president ran is because he thought nobody else wanted it.
Could it be that something else was wrong ?
His late entry write in opponent was only a few votes behind so that indicates a pretty strong feeling about something.
"That's Irritainment."

What makes you think the voting was close? Why didn't Jim run sooner? I've noticed several swamps and marshes on the way to San Diego too.

[JackD]

The actual count that was delayed by a month in violation of the by-laws would be a good indication of the count.
If you are to take them at their word, Mike said he only ran because nobody else wanted too and Jim told us he ran in large part because the candidate was un-opposed and it guaranteed business as usual.
The fact that 2 of the elected board were excluded from the decisions related to the appointed board speaks volumes doesn't it.
Conversations with Cook, before Speedweek connected additional dots that helped paint the picture.
Shining the light in the dark spots almost has me convinced of something but I am open to other ideas.
Sometimes"PERCUSSIVE MAINTENANCE" features a lot of cussing but seems to work.

OBTW: If you are looking towards SD and still stuck in the swamps, don't give up trying to escape.

[JackD]

ok still no response from the MC committee on my email.. I guess it may take a week or so to research or formulate an opinion so not yet...

Will look again when I get to Australia... We are about 1 hour away from flight..

Jon

Are you getting your normal e-mail while you are down under?
In that case if you are, that is about as normal as you can expect.

[1212FBGS]

2 bad we cant run a Boss Hoss!

[k.h.]

25 post ago I, as a newbie asked a simple question about a new rule. To date no one has bothered to say "Hi Welcome to landracing.com" or answer my question. I am not too sure who is who and at this point don't think I care. It just seems like another forum for some to complain and the others to flex their power.

Hi and welcome to the board.  Clearly this thread has been hijacked by petty anarchists and crazed nihilists out to use what has been learned in the past to avoid mistakes in the present.

Aftermarket engine cases are about "Safety" as there are only so many 175+ horse power runs in a set of stock cases. When going up to a fuel or blown record attempt the stress on the cases is increased, so aftermarket cases are preferred.

H-D OEM cases have been made superflous by turbos, blowers, nitrous and various forms of modern fuel and ignition systems.  Using terms like "safety" and "stress on cases" may get you lumped in with the wrong crowd.

It just seems like another forum for some to complain and the others to flex their power.

Actually, we make advantage of this open format to bring issues to the attention of anyone willing to read the forum.  Food for thought served on the halfshell.  True, some folks here are shy and subtle, like JackD, but the issues are out in the open and history is relayed by those who were there.

The next step is to lobby for a reversal. . .

....how can we, the racers, begin to imput rational change in OUR rules?...

Go to the scta-bni website, look at the 2006 rules changes listed on the front page and follow the directions.

[JackD]

3 of the 4 MC committee members are no longer listed with SCTA on their web site
REMARKABLE.

[landracing]

Here is a response I received on Feb 3, 2006 while in Australia. On the email I sent Feb 27th, 06.

"Jon,
    I've been prepping for the Baja 250 race and I'm heading down tomorrow for a week of pre-running.  I will be polling the rule committee and the racer's advisory group on your question when I get back.  I'll let you know but, production Harley Davidsons do not come equipped with S & S motors so my opinion (and I mean only my opinion and not the final ruling) is that they will not be allowed -- because it would be unfair for guys with stock Harleys."

My reply Email to Russ Today Feb 17, 06 was this.

"How can it be "fair" to make then stock Harley's in M class go after records in the M class that were set with S&S Cases.."

Hope im representing you harley guys ok since I dont run them..

Jon

[k.h.]

Decent argument.  Seems like they are trying to put the toothpaste back in the tube after S&S engines set records in the few truly competed classes.  OEM restrictions guarantee more hats for JackD's mentioned "Under 2 Club."