Author Topic: 2 stoke tunning  (Read 3500 times)

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Offline rockstar

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2 stoke tunning
« on: October 13, 2006, 04:33:54 PM »
Hi Gang.
I hope someone out there can be of help to us.
We hope to come to the salt next year for the production 250 class, the problem is that we have no clue how to tune the bike for the altitude,all our tunning base line settings are for sea level,so any advice or tips about tunning a 2 stroke for Bonniville would be gratefully welcomed.

Dave
Remember Murphy's 6th law,if all goes well,then you have missed something out.

Team Sparrow Racing UK

bak189

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2 stoke tunning
« Reply #1 on: October 13, 2006, 05:28:34 PM »
Bring a  4-stroke........So sorry I did not mean that........just that I cannot get my 2-stroke Rotax to run fast enough at Bonneville.......
Oh, yes come to the BUB meet ....motorcycle friendly meet.

Offline rockstar

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2 stoke tunning
« Reply #2 on: October 13, 2006, 07:31:45 PM »
what cc is your Rotax and what is not fast enough, we can get a 250cc to run 139 at sea level but do not know how to change the tunning to run at 4500ft above sea level,not sure on head volumes and compression ratio's.
Everyone brings a 4 banger,that is easy to go fast,the trick is to get a 2 smoke to go FAST!!
Remember Murphy's 6th law,if all goes well,then you have missed something out.

Team Sparrow Racing UK

Offline Dean Los Angeles

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2 stoke tunning
« Reply #3 on: October 13, 2006, 07:56:51 PM »
All things being equal weather wise, 4200 feet altitude at Bonneville will give you 85% of the air you have at sea level. The compression squish that you have can be bumped and the jet size will have to be dropped to match the loss of air. How much? The compression ratio you can calculate. Running the engine in the pits will give you a clue to jetting. You should have an idea what is too rich at sea level. Give the jetting a try on the very rich side and see if your guess matches what you know at sea level.

Better yet, bring your dyno with you and give it a test run at Bonneville!

Or substitute seat of the pants, make 12-14 passes over the next 3-4 years and you will have a really good idea! :shock:
Well, it used to be Los Angeles . . . 50 miles north of Fresno now.
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It's bigger than life or death! It's RACING.

Offline Rex Schimmer

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Two Strokes:
« Reply #4 on: October 13, 2006, 09:29:59 PM »
Start alot fatter than you think you should, look at the plugs real close after every run. If you see those little silver balls on the electrode back up, or if the piston happens to weld itself to the cylinder wall! Bring an extra set of barrels, couple of sets of pistons and rings and a good hone.

Then, like Dean says make 14-20 runs, if your piston supply last that long, and you might figure it out.

Rex
Rex

Not much matters and the rest doesn't matter at all.

Offline Freud

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PLUGS
« Reply #5 on: October 14, 2006, 01:46:41 AM »
And when you see some little round glob on the plug that isn't metal........you have swallowed some salt and it has vaporized and welded to the electrode.



FREUD
Since '63

equimania

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2 stoke tunning
« Reply #6 on: October 14, 2006, 01:49:31 AM »
Quote from: rockstar
what cc is your Rotax and what is not fast enough, we can get a 250cc to run 139 at sea level but do not know how to change the tunning to run at 4500ft above sea level,not sure on head volumes and compression ratio's.


There is a lot of learning on this available on the net and you can even buy density altitude computer programs to figure it for you.

The main variables are temperature and altitude.  As a rule of thumb, within reasonable ranges, you need to drop about 3% in jet area (which equates to about one jet size) for each 1,000 M of altitude and one size for each rise of 10 degrees C in temperature.  Barometric pressure and moisture also factor in, but are harder to factor, but directionally, the drier the air or the higher the barometric pressure, the bigger the jet.  And all of these are additive, so you need to cumulatively adjust for them all.

In 2004, on a very hot day, a density altitude calculator said for me to drop 7 sizes from my baseline.  I did not have cojones big enough for that (and, besides, I only had one spare piston and no spare barrel).  I dropped 4 jet sizes from my established baseline (sea level at about 20 degrees C), and got very similar speed performance as at sea level, which seemed to indicate I was pretty spot-on.  I probably could have dropped at least 1 more in the heat of the day, but did not want to risk frying a piston.

As others said, the only way to be sure is to try it.  Drop 2 or 3 sizes for starters, and look at your plug and the top of your pistons between runs.  Bring a pocket full of jets, as the temperature and humidity can be widely variable throughout the day and the course of the week.

And the final bit of advice, is don't listen to what anyone else tells you, even me.

Manhattan Mark

Offline 1212FBGS

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2 stoke tunning
« Reply #7 on: October 14, 2006, 03:04:14 PM »
Usually bumping the compression up 2 points solves altitude problems, but you need to be very very careful on changing the primary to secondary compression balance on a 2stroke. If your head squish is set up for unleaded fuel (such as Suzuki, Aprilia 250) changing the angles to an leaded configuration can help the burn pattern to accommodate erratic air conditions

bak189

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2 stoke tunning
« Reply #8 on: October 14, 2006, 05:17:14 PM »
Our Rotax is 125c.c.  model 129 (we have two bikes with the same type of engines)
Todate we run around 110mph........we are running against a record that was set by a Can-Am factory team back in 1973. (that record still stands)  their  best run was 138+mph....the record stand at 136+mph.
So we have a long way to go........................
But we will not give up.........................................!
In test runs at places other then Bonneville
we have run as fast as 130mph......but not at Bonneville.  But we will be back at the BUB Meet in 2007 for another try.

Offline rockstar

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2 stoke tunning
« Reply #9 on: October 14, 2006, 05:34:32 PM »
thanks to you all for your input it will be taken onboard.
By the way,Manhattan Mark i think you have allready be speaking to the rider,it is MJ43 off the RGV250 forum ( Mark Jordan) i know he has spoken to both you and YamaGama.

Dave
Remember Murphy's 6th law,if all goes well,then you have missed something out.

Team Sparrow Racing UK