SCTA stated policy of opening a new class or categories

[Ratliff]

I wonder at Speedweek 2008, in those classes or categories that were represented by a vehicle actually showing up, how many classes or categories on the books were represented by just one or two vehicles? Does the SCTA have a stated policy for retiring classes or categories?

[Dean Los Angeles]

It has been discussed to death that there are 400 some odd motorcycle records and 1,200 some odd classes. Most combinations have never been run.

Most of these classes exist to keep the obsolete engines a place to run. Speed Weeks 2008 had:
64 motorcycle records.
37 were vintage or pushrod.
11 were sidecar. Of the 11 sidecars, 4 were vintage or pushrod.

One was an Omega.

So out of 64 records, 20 were competitive 2-wheel motorcycles.

Ok, even that ain't right. 10 of the 20 were blown.

100 cc BF 48 mph when the unblown gas record is 97 mph.
175 cc BG 67 mph when the unblown gas record is 125 mph.
350 cc BG 74 mph when the unblown gas record is 145 mph.

Special mention for the sidecar 2000 cc blown gas 82 mph and blown fuel record of . . . 82 mph.

18 records set against an open record.
15 more against a record less than 100 mph.

12 records over 200. All but one had an existing record over 200.

[Ratliff]

It has been discussed to death that there are 400 some odd motorcycle records and 1,200 some odd classes. Most combinations have never been run.

Most of these classes exist to keep the obsolete engines a place to run. Speed Weeks 2008 had:
64 motorcycle records.
37 were vintage or pushrod.
11 were sidecar. Of the 11 sidecars, 4 were vintage or pushrod.

One was an Omega.

So out of 64 records, 20 were competitive 2-wheel motorcycles.

Ok, even that ain't right. 10 of the 20 were blown.

100 cc BF 48 mph when the unblown gas record is 97 mph.
175 cc BG 67 mph when the unblown gas record is 125 mph.
350 cc BG 74 mph when the unblown gas record is 145 mph.

Special mention for the sidecar 2000 cc blown gas 82 mph and blown fuel record of . . . 82 mph.

18 records set against an open record.
15 more against a record less than 100 mph.

12 records over 200. All but one had an existing record over 200.

"Most of these classes exist to keep the obsolete engines a place to run"? How about the idea of also adding classes to ADVANCE the sport by creating a place for NEW technology or NEW ideas?

[sheribuchta]

thanks for the post dean ---where does sheri fit into all of that --500 cc sidecar pushrod fuel --old record 97.665 her new record 101.229 --third event she ever rode at --never rode a motorcycle before that except our little pit bike  --thanks  willie buchta

[Stan Back]

Who invited the first 10, anyway?  What were they thinking?

[Nortonist 592]

"Most of these classes exist to keep the obsolete engines a place to run"? How about the idea of also adding classes to ADVANCE the sport by creating a place for NEW technology or NEW ideas?

Ratliff,  You need to come to an event, be it Bonneville or El Mirage etc.  You will see a lot of new technology applied to current vehicles.  As to "obsolete engines" and classes for them to run.  Not everyone wants to embrace the latest whizzbangery.  Some of us like to take that obsolete technology and see how we can apply our ideas and some current technology and make that old motor fly.  Some people get great satisfaction from taking an engine that was originally designed with a top speed of 65 and getting it to run 130.  The SCTA has plenty of classes that allow new technology and ideas.  If people didn't keep coming up with new ideas LSR would have died years ago.  If you think that the SCTA and the people who race are lacking technology and ideas go over to the BUB forum and click on the FIM section.  Check out their records for motorcycles.  I'd suggest the cars but I don;t know where to find them and I'm not that interested.  The motorcycle records  go in capacity limits (not partial streamlning, unblown, blown etc.) and flying start, standing start distances.  With the exception of the 1300cc class most of their records have been stagnant since the early 80s.   The FIM, unlike the SCTA, has nothing but capacity as a limit.  Unless you can build something within the capacity constraint that will be the absolute worlds fastest then there is no point in trying.  Whereas the SCTA provides a huge choice of classes that allow you to build within the rules of that class and go race with  chance to be competitive.  I would argue that the SCTA's variety of classes encourages new technology and ideas far more than the FIA, FIM, etc.

[Evil Tweety]

"Most of these classes exist to keep the obsolete engines a place to run"? How about the idea of also adding classes to ADVANCE the sport by creating a place for NEW technology or NEW ideas?

Advance the sport?  How does the sport need to be advanced?  Just how do you see land speed racing?

We've been racing J/Production for years.  Started off with a 600cc engine, carb and open exhaust - did 82mph on a 92mph record.  Came back the next year with 700cc and EFI - every run was over 95mph, every run faster than our competitors had ever run.  Then started the multi-year struggle to get the record up over 100mph.  All of this has been with 35+ year old aerodynamics and a 35+ year old engine design, and shoe-string budget for both $$$ and time.

How do I see the sport?  Getting that 1 mph that the "other guy" in your class hasn't figured out.  Right now for me it isn't in trying to break the sound barrier, or even go 200/300/400 mph. 

What motivated me?  Having another racer (who raced the same car as me) say "these Honda 600s can't go 100mph at Bonneville."  There is no "advancing the sport" to many of us - it's an individual personal challenge when we race.  Many of us are tinkerers, and I don't know that that many are adrenaline junkies or are that concerned with what the fastest runs are on the salt.

Sure - the hydrogen and electric cars are neat to look at.  And I have a lot of respect for what the Nebulous T. entries have done.  But it's not why the group I hang with races.

I'd be curious to know more on how you feel the sport needs to be advanced, or what new technologies you had in mind.

(BTW - please don't take my tone as confrontational - I'm honestly curious to find out what you think.)

[dwarner]

The sport is continually advancing. Just this year we had requests to add a B engine class to Production Supercharged and a J engine class to Modified Sports. This morning I recieved a request to add a K engine class to GT/MS.

I have been trying to remove the Highway Hauler class for years due to a lack of participation. But, there is George Neilson who runs the class at WoS so I must remain moot on this until george is finished with his racing. How much advancement do you need for one year Ratliff?

If you are as internet savy as you claim, remenber your post about surfing the Internet for over 10 years, you would know that there is a process in place on the SCTA-BNI website: Try lookig here:

www.scta-bni.org

DW

[sodbuster]

Since this is still on the top of the page.........this is my favorite feature of the "Landracing site"......I thought that I clicked the button a while back, but somehow the "bench racer" snuck back under my radar. Oh well..........I know that this may be a dumb question, but could you block the IP from a certain person? I never really see/hear any input from the "prop"......oh wait.....I said it......hahaha......guy.

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This user is currently ignored.

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[Seldom Seen Slim]

Sod:

As the guy that holds the keys to the kingdom, so to speak, I can do a whole heck of a lot with the permissions that are granted to each andevery forum member.  I can, to answer your question, block someone by IP address, and also by email, by sign-in name, and a few others,.  I can "ban" said user for any length of time (up to permanently), and can leave a message to other "administrators" (assuming that I have designated such) as to why I've chosen to ban someone.  I can choose to havAnd on, and on.  I can even make the machine automatically censor any words I choose, turning dee ay em en into truckstop or rutabaga or whatever I want.

There's your specific answer.  Now, to the unasked question about whether any certain individual is banned at any specific moment:  That's information that I don't feel is appropriate for me to divulge on line.  I don't care to have people talk about me when I can't respond, and I grant that same consideration to each and every member of this forum.

Best wishes, and thanks for being a member of the landracing.com Forum.

[Nortonist 592]

I notice the original post has been edited.  I can't speak for the SCTA but I don't believe they have a dedicated policy for class deletion.  Some years ago, speaking about sidecar racing in England, Mick Woolet said "Don't talk to me about sidecars.  They are raced for the hell of it.  If progress came into it the class would have been scrapped years ago."   I think that statement can be applied to many classes that are in the SCTA rule book.  We race for the hell of it.  Why is a body style that is 75+ years old still being raced?  For the hell of it.  Why are there vintage, classic classes?  For the hell of it.  Some people want to race a '29 Ford with a big block.  Or a '40 Indian.  We might all have the same genetic defect that makes us do things like that.  If thats the case, thank God for it.

[sheribuchta]

a-men---rules for each class cant change much ( most of the time a class rule changes its just for clarification ) or for safety  for example look at burts record  sf although it was a pushrod motor --sf it was an A bike with a shell that would be ileagle now in streamline fuel so can his record ever be broken --no --not with a bike like his it wouldnt be allowed to run under todays rules --the changes in rules were made because of safety --a good thing --as far as the number of classes the more the better (remember at one time you couldnt run unless you were driving a roadster ive heard )  it doesnt cost any more to have more classes ( maybe for the printing of the rule book ) with all of the motorcycle engines in cars-- i would like to see a motorcycle with a car motor class and maybe a trike class ---there are a lot out there that im sure that would like to race -----just some thoughts     willie buchta

the convention is on the tv in the background with all of the lies being told in waiting for lightening to strike my tv  /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\

[Stan Back]

Let us not forget that SCTA was mainly formed to see who had the fasted Roadster or Lakes Modified (lakester).  It was never to be considered the land racing authority.  It's club racing.  And if you expect more, join in -- or get your own club.

[Robin UK]

I'm not an SCTA member and have never raced at Bonneville (although I've been many times) so I hope you don't mind me commenting as an interested bystander. I think Stan makes the very valid point that Speedweek is essentially club racing for club members using a class structure agreed by club members. The joy of Bonneville for me has always been that it is pretty much all-embracing and allows all those taking part to have a lot of fun within whatever financial and technical limits apply to their chosen vehicles. By it's very nature it will try to embrace as many ideas as possible but just like any club, it probably can't cater for every single need. But presumably, if FR ,or anybody else who thinks there might be room for new classes, wants to influence things, then the way to do that is to join the club and then make a compelling case to other members using whatever club process already exists. If members can't be persuaded to change, then there are of course other routes to pursue - BUB, FIA, FIM or whatever. And if that fails, well you could always build whatever it is you have in mind anyway and run it privately. I guess it all depends on what you think the SCTA exists for in the first place. My feeling is that it is there for members to share a common interest, test and advance their technical skills and have fun doing it in the company of like-minded people. Long may it continue to do so.

Robin