Is staying with the vehicle the best idea?

[Ratliff]

Is staying with the vehicle the best idea? I have no conclusions regarding this.

This is just a thought that occurred to me after observing video of the absolute brutal cataclysmic violence of Top Fuel drag boat crashes where after the boat explodes in a million pieces the only thing that remains intact or recognizable during the crash is the driver capsule that has separated from the boat.

Jason McVicar crashed at roughly the same speed as Keith Copeland yet it was McVicar who sustained the comparatively minor injuries.

I had a recent conversation with James Brendel, builder of what is regarded as the Cadillac of drag boat driver capsules. Brendel's price for a drag boat capsule is $17,500. The guy in California who builds the Chevy of driver capsules charges $12,500.
 
In case you're curious about the difference between a $12,500 capsule and a $17,500 capsule, with the $17,500 capsule instead of an acrylic canopy you get a bullet proof polycarbonate canopy straight off the F-16 production line.

[Jonny Hotnuts]

The closest thing I have seen to this in LSR is the fuel cell on the Burklands liner that detaches in a crash and has proven to work successfully.

Not really the same as a detaching capsule.

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I think it would be interesting to see data on sustained injuries from LSR, including types of injuries, severity, type of vehicle and what the reason why the vehicle wrecked. I feel would be beneficial to building a safer car by avoiding issues that were known trouble spots. (I would not like to know who, only circumstances).

In retrospect I know the SCTA rules were made and changed based on the data and knowledge from crashes. I just think it would be useful to know the events that forged why the rules were made.



 

[Ratliff]

The closest thing I have seen to this in LSR is the fuel cell on the Burklands liner that detaches in a crash and has proven to work successfully.

Not really the same as a detaching capsule.

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I think it would be interesting to see data on sustained injuries from LSR, including types of injuries, severity, type of vehicle and what the reason why the vehicle wrecked. I feel would be beneficial to building a safer car by avoiding issues that were known trouble spots. (I would not like to know who, only circumstances).

In retrospect I know the SCTA rules were made and changed based on the data and knowledge from crashes. I just think it would be useful to know the events that forged why the rules were made.



 

No matter what the speed or weight, according to the rulebook 1.25 x .095 tubing is considered adequate for the rollcage of a motorcycle streamliner. However, if you double the number of wheels from two to four then 1.25 x .095 tubing is no longer considered adequate. Figure that one out.

[Glen]

That was a typical  Ratliff answer= stupid

[Ratliff]

The closest thing I have seen to this in LSR is the fuel cell on the Burklands liner that detaches in a crash and has proven to work successfully.

Not really the same as a detaching capsule.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

I think it would be interesting to see data on sustained injuries from LSR, including types of injuries, severity, type of vehicle and what the reason why the vehicle wrecked. I feel would be beneficial to building a safer car by avoiding issues that were known trouble spots. (I would not like to know who, only circumstances).

In retrospect I know the SCTA rules were made and changed based on the data and knowledge from crashes. I just think it would be useful to know the events that forged why the rules were made.



 

The Burkland's car is designed to break in half just behind the cockpit if it sustains sufficient impact. Had the crash occurred at higher speed, it very probably would have.

[Evil Tweety]

Is staying with the vehicle the best idea? I have no conclusions regarding this.

This is just a thought that occurred to me after observing video of the absolute brutal cataclysmic violence of Top Fuel drag boat crashes where after the boat explodes in a million pieces the only thing that remains intact or recognizable during the crash is the driver capsule that has separated from the boat.

The first thing that comes to mind for me?
Force = mass * acceleration.

When things go wrong (crash, etc.) your acceleration is already set to a certain point.
If you can separate from the vehicle/engine you greatly reduce the mass of the part you are strapped into.

I would think that this would greatly reduce the force of each hit as you reduce speed by rolling, tumbling, etc..

The only part to fear is getting hit by what you broke away from. 

My quick two cents.

[Ratliff]

Is staying with the vehicle the best idea? I have no conclusions regarding this.

This is just a thought that occurred to me after observing video of the absolute brutal cataclysmic violence of Top Fuel drag boat crashes where after the boat explodes in a million pieces the only thing that remains intact or recognizable during the crash is the driver capsule that has separated from the boat.

The first thing that comes to mind for me?
Force = mass * acceleration.

When things go wrong (crash, etc.) your acceleration is already set to a certain point.
If you can separate from the vehicle/engine you greatly reduce the mass of the part you are strapped into.

I would think that this would greatly reduce the force of each hit as you reduce speed by rolling, tumbling, etc..

The only part to fear is getting hit by what you broke away from. 

My quick two cents.

The trick is how to incorporate that principle in a car in a practical way.

[edweldon]

No matter what the speed or weight, according to the rulebook 1.25 x .095 tubing is considered adequate for the rollcage of a motorcycle streamliner. However, if you double the number of wheels from two to four then 1.25 x .095 tubing is no longer considered adequate. Figure that one out.

The dynamics of a 2 wheel streamliner and a 4 wheel streamliner are a whole lot different both in a normal running state and in the various "loss of control" states. In actual practice the 2 wheeler has been a substantially lower mass than the 4 wheeler.  Both factors answer your last sentence.
That all could change in the future.  There has been a natural and IMHO very healthy evolution of safety rules for both bikes and cars to date.  Best the evolution continue separately as it has in the past until conditions on the ground dictate otherwise.
Ed Weldon

[edweldon]

Is staying with the vehicle the best idea? I have no conclusions regarding this.
This is just a thought that occurred to me after observing video of the absolute brutal cataclysmic violence of Top Fuel drag boat crashes where after the boat explodes in a million pieces the only thing that remains intact or recognizable during the crash is the driver capsule that has separated from the boat.

The trick is how to incorporate that principle in a car in a practical way.

I don't think a separate capsule would be any more practical for a car than fighter aircraft ejection seat type methods; each for separate reasons. Certainly they would be expensive to the point of prohibiting a majority of competitors.
 To me the best approach is the one we've already developed; i.e. make the car the "capsule" and work on making it more efficient at either dissipating or shedding kinetic energy.  Also it needs to resist penetration of the driver's body of foreign objects as well as trauma causing motions, shocks and impacts.  Of course one of the best ways to shed kinetic energy is to shed heavy pieces which will tale the energy with them when they leave; but should be prevented from redelivering that energy to the driver afterwards.
Ed Weldon

[Ratliff]

Brendel's price for a drag boat capsule is $17,500. The guy in California who builds the Chevy of driver capsules charges $12,500. With the $17,500 capsule instead of an acrylic canopy you get a bullet proof polycarbonate canopy straight off the F-16 production line. Weight of the Brendel capsule is 200 lbs.