Dustbin fairing

[bak189]

Sorry.......NO dinner or cigar

[1212FBGS]

just hold your horses guys... i'll get to answer this question soon.... it requires me to scan pictures research names and a lot of one finger typing. i should be finished and ready to post late next week...
kent

[bak189]

I wll check back with "you all" after the BUB........
scanning pics, will not answer the question.....maybe books on roadracing in the 1950's will!!!!!!!!!!!...............the answer is actually very simple.............before they were banned several tests were done in (as I recall)  the Moto Guzzi
wind tunnel.......this is all from my now departed
uncle Jaap, former FIM Rep.
If you are racing the BUB, ask the FIM Rep "Charlie"
I think he would know the answer..........you can ask him in English, French or Dutch.......................

[k.h.]

Poor cousins in the motorcycle manufacturing business hadn't the money for R&D, nor wind tunnel testing, nor a decent panel beater on staff, so they snivelled until the rules got changed.  This after Moto Guzzi made the V-8 go 178+ mph with 62 hp.

Then again, one must remember all airfields in the early days of aviation were big open fields and all aircraft had "conventional" tail wheel gear effecting the center of gravity much like a dustbin.  A prudent pilot always landed into the wind.  Only with the change in real estate to narrow strips and runways did aviators start systematically ground-looping in crosswinds.

[ol38y]

I think k h's post goes back to what has been said all along. They are unstable in variable or cross winds. There is a push to legalize them again but they are kinda like interest only loans. They cycle thru till the market can't bear them anymore..   But, everyone has their own opinion.

[JackD]

It is My own opinion that some people are smarter than others.
Some of you know Lee Beard and some even think he knows what he is talking about.
This is a partial quote from a recent interview that addresses a high number of crashes at a particular track.

" I think it has something to do with incidents that took place at the Texas Motorplex, which was an all concrete track.
Many blamed the crashes on the track saying that it has a very narrow groove and that is why these cars crashed.
Well I think the major factor was the prevailing cross-winds at that track that hit your car when you go past the end of the grandstands.
They can cause a driver to lose control of the vehicle. "

[bak189]

So Sorry.......but none of the replies are even close
to the answer...............even though some very good points are being made regarding the safety of Dustbins.  As I noted before, crosswinds was not the reason, but In my mind it should have been considered.  A good friend of mine road racing  a Desmo 125c.c. Duc at Riverside Raceway
(track gone now) using a Dustbin came around turn 6 and the wind put him into the Emco..............
broken arm......A interesting side-line regarding this bike, he payed $800.00 new from Ducati..........it just resently sold back to Euope for
$105000.00............it was one of three build.  (fast
but broke a lot). 

[JackD]

I am a D/Q from the contest as I know the reason FIM banned it directly from their Technical Commission.
My campaign against them has to do with LSR and Dradracing for which I have considerable exposure.

[Marcroux]

  How about the dustbin added so much speed that the bikes were unsafe to ride do to the fact that they  did not have mechanically the suspension or the handling needed to do the job.
Bob, if I win buy me an ice coffee next time you visit Ozzie’s in Chico.

[bak189]

Sorry Marcroux.......no dinner for you......but you are on for the iced coffee next time I am in Chico........in fact get Coleman to buy you one........

[bak189]

Ok............Ok...this Dustbin thing has been going way to long...........the reason that they were outlawed in the late 1950's in roadracing by the FIM was because the fairings got to the point that the Aero was so good (Moto-Guzzi for one) that the engine and exhaust fumes could not escape and would stay inside the fairings putting the riders "to sleep" This is not to say that cross-winds did not have some input on the outlawed fairings.   At the last BUB Meet we had some input with our Dustbined sidecar.....a 4mph cross-wind is O.K. ...............a 12mph cross-wind blew the outfit accrossed the track twice, only due to the sidecar driving skills of Larry C prevented a major mishap......if that had been a solo bike.... the bike would have gone down!!!!!!!!!!
Also, Jon, the FIM and the AMA DO allow Dustbin
fairings on solo-bikes (you have to learn, Jon, "Old Guys Rule " we know our stuff)
The only thing is that I do not understand both the FIM and AMA ruling as to how the fairing should be mounted........they want the fairing at axcle hight (front whl. of course) with 50 % of the wheel showing. below the fairing....that is not the way I remember it from racing Speed Trials in Europe..............................................................I

[JackD]

The AMA/FIM rules for dustbins are as confused as the rulers and subject to monied influence rather than sane application.

"Everything has a time and a place and the time and place for that stuff ain't Bonneville." (me)

[tomsmith]

If you have ever passed an 18-wheeler in either a car or on a bike when a crosswind is blowing, you will agree with Jack about dustbins and why only the overly brave and foolish would want to use them.  Sooner or later the luck will run out unless they (hopefully) read about CG and CLP first.  Looks like the car guys mostly understand.

[JackD]

Just pass an old style Pete in still air and you will white knuckle yourself.
Even many of those with modern factory fairings on the salt have seen salt floaters in the air, directly in their vision, that are not attached to anything, but for sure along for the ride.
The proof is kinda in your face but still denied.

'It is kinda like the kid that has decided if he closes his eyes, he can't be seen."