Landracing Forum
Tech Information => Technical Discussion => Topic started by: johnrobinson on February 01, 2006, 03:34:30 PM
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Howdy, one of the Professors here at the University of Wisconsin was discussing high speed tires in a class he teaches, and mentioned Bonneville racing and the Summers Brothers Goldenrod. He requested information about the tires used for high speed racing. As I am known in the ME dept for racing at the Salt, I was asked to find info concerning these tires, such at stiffness, inflation pressure, speed rating, Turner number (whatever that is) etc? anybody got this info? thanks
on another note, I'm in the process of moving the machine shop equipment from my garage to my basement, meaning that I must move just about everything I own to make space to move and store my stuff. this in addition to teaching myself how to oxy actylene weld .050 aluminum sheet, building a sidecar body for my bmw, remodifying the BSA for the Salt, (somebody out there keeps changing the rules!) and assembling an EFI for the dodge colt....while getting training for working on an Ice drill for Antarctica, and counting down to my retirement in about 16763 hours or so.....
drive careful
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why in the heck would ya go to antartica and drill for ice?
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John
The Summers brothers Goldenrod used Firestone tires . Tom Burkland designed the tires on his streamliner which went considerably faster than the Goldenrod so the professor might want to talk to Tom .
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what kind of bsa/class??
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why in the heck would ya go to antartica and drill for ice?
Kent, he sure as hell couldn't drill for ice in San Diego, could he? Might as well go where the ice is. . .
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I go to Antarctica to drill Ice because that's where the Ice is....(stealing and subverting some bank robbers quote, can't remember his name right now, but I'm sure somebody out there knows it) and this summer I'm in Greenland testing a new drill for the Ice. If we meet/exceed engineering specs for this drill, I'm pretty sure of a job in Antarctica for the next 6 years....looking forward to it too....
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Bank robber = Wee Willy Sutton. L
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John, some information on the Summers Brothers Firestone Tires.
Tubless Nylons
6.50 x 16
width of tread contact area 4 in.
static diameter. 23 in
inflation 250 psi
design speed 550 mph
Don Vesco used them in the beginning of the Turbinator test runs up to 400 mph. They found them in a cool house in Salt Lake City.
The wheel
Aluminium
Hurst Design
forged by Harvey Aluminium
Diameter 16 in x 6 1/2 in rim width
Desmountable rim
Hope this helps
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why in the heck would ya go to Antarctica and drill for ice?
Kent, he sure as hell couldn't drill for ice in San Diego, could he? Might as well go where the ice is. . .
If I had a 6 year job offer to drill ice in Antarctica, I would look at robbing banks. :wink:
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why in the heck would ya go to Antarctica and drill for ice?
Kent, he sure as hell couldn't drill for ice in San Diego, could he? Might as well go where the ice is. . .
If I had a 6 year job offer to drill ice in Antarctica, I would look at robbing banks. :wink:
He'll probably make more money than you. Besides when it is winter here it is summer there, unless he is going in the winter :cry: . Of course in SD it is never winter or summer if you are by the water like I was for a year on North Island.
Personally I got enough of Antarctica living in Wyoming for almost 30 years 8) .
c ya, Sum
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I live by Mission Bay and went sailing this weekend.
I get all the ice needed on the boat, both cube and crushed from the refer door. :wink:
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To steal a quote from Al Teague on Monster Garage, it goes something like this, modified for John of course;
"If you are on a train to drill ice in Anartica you don't get off in Mexico City".
DW
How many points?
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I grew up in the snow in Ohio, Thats why I live in San Diego! Snow? no thanks!
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I saw a documentary on Ice Drilling in the Antarctica...
Seems that the ice core samples are drilled for scientific research... earth's beginnings, etc... That's some really old ice!
BTW I'm currently reading all the threads on tires so you can tell me to pipe down.
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Perhaps if SCTA put down their pipes and represented the future of the sport, tires might happen.
That was too easy. LOL
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I did'nt think robbing banks deserved a sentence of six years in Antarctica. And why the hell do you want to drill ice? It has melted for thousands of years. Its old ice. What more do you need to know. And I know for a fact that the SCTA has no speed ratings for ice tires.
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I did'nt think robbing banks deserved a sentence of six years in Antarctica. And why the hell do you want to drill ice? It has melted for thousands of years. Its old ice. What more do you need to know. And I know for a fact that the SCTA has no speed ratings for ice tires.
To me, Old Ice means something that hasen't been in demand for a long time, maybe never.
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Ice Drilling is akin to LSR, there is a real sense of adventure in the doing of it. LSR is the testing of man and machine at the limits, being on the Ice also tests those same limits. My main job there is to test new drilling machines, pushing the machine and our knowledge as we learn how to drill Ice faster and deeper. I've stood on places NOBODY ELSE, in the Worlds history, has ever stood. I've been places where no sound can be heard that is made by humans. the Ice we drill is not frozen and rethawed, it is frozen at the time of its first existence, as old as 300K years old (which is even older then Jackd, but maybe not by much) and therefore contains information of the time of its frozen birth. And as it is at first, snow that is slowly buried under more snow until it becomes Ice, it contains air, frozen and compressed air, and if you take that pure ancient frozen water and air, and drop a piece of it into a widemouthed glass, and then pour a goodly amount of a good bourbon over it, the Ice begins to melt, and that air, compressed and trapped by the frozen water, expands and there is a sudden release as the Ice splits and the air, once trapped, bubbles through, and then becomes, very expensive party ice....at an estimated cost of $3K+ per cubic inch.....also kinda like our LSR engines....see how I can bring the subject back to LSR? it is all related....now if we can figure out a way to get high speed tires out of there!
first time I ever knew about LSR, I saw the Summer Bros Goldenrod on display at the Detroit auto show back in '65 (was it or 66?), and wanted to race the the Salt ever since. first time I was on the Salt, I saw Al Teague run his 1991 LSR record pass.. I'll never go that fast, but want others to have the opportunity to try......
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In this 300K old ice at what level is the Jack Daniels?
DW
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Antarctic ice drilling is better than going to the ice in the Arctic. It's the difference between penguins and polar bears. Why do polar bears lick their b*t*s after eating? To get the taste of university scientist ice driller out of their mouths. I've still got the surplus Delaware State Police riot gun from ice duty decades ago. Stagger 4 buckshot and 4 slugs for when they charge. The other guy has the high powered rifle. If you see a live polar bear, that bear is seeing you as food.
Hey! How about LSR on ice flows with studded tires?
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If their is anything I ever want to know about ICE that I should start with somebody from Madison,Wi.and if that was not enough and I wanted to see Polar bears and Birds that can't fly, information is available here for that too.
Imagine, me from San Diego believed all the ICE I need comes from the refer door (crushed or cubed).
Ya know I invested heavy into a snow plowing business in Denver and I only go there when it is 70 or above and only see the snow and ice in pictures that come with the banking records.
That is all I want to know about it and with any luck at all, I will age out before I need to pee in it.
My boy says that works best after taking a big dose of Flintstones Vitamins.
I have the pictures he sent to prove it beyond my needs.
I don't think I will need any more information soon but the reminders are really cool. LOL
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I've got 48 days till I leave for Greenland and a first test of a new drill....we're gonna be in the worlds largest national park 300,000 sq miles, at camp Summit in northeast greenland, about 500 miles from the coast and so am safe from polar bears....(at least that is what they tell me)....and as the area is a clean air zone, walking is about all that is allowed, except for very few snocats, and then very limited where they can go, to avoid mucking up the scientists' results with pollution a ice bourbon ratio of 1 to 1 is good... and the current saying on the Ice is "change your socks, change your attitude."
right now, I am working on how to make a high compression BSA Victor start without destroying the antique impossible to replace starter shaft and pawl.
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I used to start my BSA Gold Star by first cranking until you feel compression, then pull in the compression release, do a small leap in the air and jump on the kickstarter. Let go of the compression release when halfway through your kick. This worked for me, and I weighed 124 pounds. Big macho guys (over 300 pounds) don't need the release. Didn't the Victor have a release, or did they leave it off since it was more modern?
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Rollers can be your friend.
They also can bust your sitter if you don't know how to use them and it might break your starter shaft too. :wink:
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I used to use the compression release as the Victor did have one, but put a second spark plug in the head, and so now there is no room for the compression release mechanism. I am working on a roller starter with a dodge colt starter to drive it...seems I've got several colt starters from the race car spare parts pile and figured out how to make one, mostly by seeing the "worlds fastest indian" and the scene of bert starting his indian in his garage with one, even though I had seen the various websites touting their roller starter products, somehow the movie scene was the catalyst to my building one....so right now I am modifying a moped trans gear set to run the drive roller, one gear will be fitted to the colt starter, other to the roller....all the starter parts, frame, rollers, starter, including the 12v battery gonna be mounted on a chinese 2 wheel handtruck....I think... if it works the way I think it should, and the crick don't rise etc.....a couple of months ago I got the inspiration to run the Victor on the Salt this year, as it was 2002 since I was last there, so I got out the clipboard to see what needed to be done to get it ready to run, and as the 'board only had about 1/2 a page of gigs to do I figured it would be ready in 4 or 5 weeks.....I'm now up to 3 pages of stuff to fix/redo/build/modify to make the bike just run, let alone what I need to do to make it race ready, along with getting the tow vehicle,(not the Pig, it needs an engine rebuild as the 348 is very tired and time, money and energy for it just ain't there, the Pig is still being driven, it's just that it probably won't make the 3200 mile trip without falling apart and stranding me in some podunk town along the way, podunk being any town I don't live in, in this case) and all the equipment needed for racing ready for a week on the Salt....yeah I'm having fun....just got a 48 inch 16 ga metal shear, and a 36 inch box and pan brake to add to my collection of tools, my daughter saw them on the Pig this evening, and is more and more concerned about the amount of stuff I have, as, when I pass, she is going to have to deal with it all.....
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All the stuff you planned for the electric rollers won't work the 2nd time on the salt.
Build a simple set that you can power with a cheap deal dirt bike that you can also use to run around with. At the end of the week, give it to a kid that is young enough to remember you as his friend for life. Then you don't have to haul it home, clean it up, and look at it for a year, all the time wondering if it will ever run again. :wink:
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Build a simple set that you can power with a cheap deal dirt bike that you can also use to run around with. At the end of the week, give it to a kid that is young enough to remember you as his friend for life. Then you don't have to haul it home, clean it up, and look at it for a year, all the time wondering if it will ever run again. :wink:
......cunning enough to be the devil himself no less :lol: :wink: :lol:
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Jackd wrote:
All the stuff you planned for the electric rollers won't work the 2nd time on the salt.
umm? how so? If I do the same maintenance on it as a car/bike, take care of it, build it with the electrics/mechanicals getting heavy insulation and sealed protection from the salt effects, wash it off, etc....yeah it'll be a potential problem, but any and all equipment brought onto the salt is facing the same problems, and most of it keeps running....and at this time, I'm also looking at being able to start the thing without assistance, here at home at least...as I should be able to commandeer volunteers to help once on the Salt...have in the past anyway....
if you know of or already had problems with a roller unit, I sure would like to hear what and how it failed, make it easier for me to build without reinventing the wheel, (I realize its' kinda what I am doing,reinventing because ifn I spent the cash for a store bought roller I could avoid the learning curve, however I enjoy the process of designing/building, like most of the LSR people out there) but the help would be appreciated none the less...
the dirt bike idea is a good one, without a doubt , I'll try to 'member it....
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A simple set of rollers will actually work better if the bearings are flushed with grease and the surface is rusty for better traction.
All the help you have on the salt, quickly hides behind the bush when you have to push your bike to start it.
The more you seal the more difficult it is to get the salt out that gets in anyway.
Ask anybody with a float bowl that can't understand how chunks of salt got by all the filtering.
It came in with the moisture in the air and combined to produce a solid where you can't get it any other way.
Spend the prep time on the racer and keep the support methods as simple as you can.
Proper , simple will always work better and a pit bike with operator is always anxious to help.
Don't buy an experienced scooter from an Aussi even if he tells you it comes equipped with a successful part time marrage business and a cool hat. The problem with them is they can be trusted but you have to know and understand them first.
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John Robinson,
How do you drive your drill? Hydraulic motors? I just supplied the hydraulic pumps to Lang Drilling in Salt Lake City for a big mobile hard rock drill that they built. 750 hp, 750000 lbs line pull, 140 ft tower, fully automated drilling. Drill speeds as slow as 2-3 ft/ hour. They just did their first hole up in Washington, 19 inch dia, 8000 feet deep, all hard rock. Who is doing your controls?
Drop me an E mail at rrschimmer@parker.com I would like to learn more about your drill.
Rex
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http://www.ssec.wisc.edu/icds/equipment/development.html
Howdy, I've been on two drilling teams so far, Shothole in 2002-03, this was an air powered drill, used 2 6cyl turboe'd Ingersoll-Rand air compressors @180 CFM each to run an air powered drill down to 60 meters for seismic studies in west antarctica, (best hole, 13 minutes flat in and out of a 60 meter hole, I am the worlds FASTEST ice driller!) and Blood Falls, in the dry valleys in antarctica in 2004, where we were to drill core with the Eclipse drill in a tongue of a glacier, however, it was too warm (if you can believe it!) and the hole would fill with melt water, and as the drill head was not a sealed unit, we could not drill. this year it is a new drill, mostly computer controlled, that we are testing in NW greenland. 4 inch core electric driven, in a fluid to keep the hole from collapsing, as are all deep Ice drills. specific training begins next week, and I can get you more info then. check uot the above site, and go through all the gallery, as pics of the drills are in there....
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For sale.
1 Vespa.
Chauffeur driven for man of the cloth on smooth surfaces only.
Has complete scenes of Heaven and Hell.
Luggage rack for Eski.
Buyer to pick up.
Location Australia.
Will not disappoint.
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Does the sale price include the wedding business ?
If you just ride around on the scooter, lots of people are going to ask. :wink:
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Does the sale price include the wedding business ?
...assuming the liabilities and a cold beer could prize it from the proprietors wandering hands, trade was a little slow this year
[/quote]If you just ride around on the scooter, lots of people are going to ask. :wink:[/quote]
asking would be polite , mostly they just took it for granted that the rider normally wore chaps , a handlebar and due to the salt had left the chromed and tassled Harley at home :lol: :roll: :lol:
The chiller is easy to remove and could possibly be replaced by a drilling rig.
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Their is a place in our Northwest that has become really popular this year with a movie and the wedding business has more demand than ever. The person I have in mind builds and rides turbo Suzis now but I think the scooter would be a snap if he started with the training wheel package.
The cowboys have a lot of money and certainly more than the sheep. The 2 cowboy deal is the wave of the future and looks like a real chance to branch out if you wanted to do franchise type business also.
The chilly bin would serve a dual purpose and haul the suitable liquid out to the field and the money back. They have their own facilities for getting drilled and I don't see much use for that option.
I you could develop some language training learning tapes, that would go a long way towards the success with the International accent it would bring to the whole package. Most of the customers already speak with a slight speech impediment so I see this as an easy option for them to learn.
It would beat a marriage made in Heaven because of the delivery as part of the package. They are going to want to keep the wedding flowers so I see that as another profit center.
would the price include trained staff ?
Our local contact already has the maleing list for the potential customers and already knows a lot of them if only by first name.
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would the price include trained staff ?
Our local contact already has the maleing list for the potential customers and already knows a lot of them if only by first name.
....and I thought the attempt on the "steamer" record was dead and buried , seems they work all night :wink:
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....and another thing
. Most of the customers already speak with a slight speech impediment so I see this as an easy option for them to learn.
That lithping is probably due to a bit much meat in the tongue...a small "V" surgically removed from the middle of the tip could fix it...but don't throw the bits away cause they could be transplanted into my neighbours...they can't manage to pronounce "S" or "T"...when they want to say "STOP" it comes out as "DOP"...their dog is called Sandy , we think , but it could be Handy , Dandy , Andy , Candy or Randy.......anyway back to the 1960 Goodyears.
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Oh, this is about Goodyear Sport Tires, not Goodrear sports.
I thought the highlight would be how good the scooter was for business.
NEVER MIND