Landracing Forum
Tech Information => Technical Discussion => Topic started by: bharmon77 on May 08, 2011, 03:58:59 PM
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Will the stock Hayabusa tip over switch work in a car at Bonneville or is there a better solution??
BHarmon
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Most of the cars use the switch installed in Ford Taurus cars behind the left trunk panel. Shuts off the electric fuel pump if bumped hard. Couple of dollars at Pick a part
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Bruce, the stock TOS will work fine and if you try and remove it there is a 100k (better check with an ohm meter 'cause I aint for sure) resistor the ECU needs to see or it will know the TOS is removed and the motor wont run.
-That being said it will work fine IF;
The unit is 100% vibration isolated.....
I would build a 3"X3"x3" box out of metal, put a block of memory foam inside it, cut a slit and install the senor inside it and mount it in a non high vibration area (*note that it has to be mounted upright). Many records were not set and untold frustration have be because at speed the TOS has vibrated and causes misfires at speed. More often then not the rider and engine techs have no clue what caused the problem. This TOS is effective on an OEM bike, riding on the asphalt but on a ridged chassis (or limited suspension) on a natural surface you can bet the bank its going to cause issues if not mounted better.
It has been the norm to fill the thing with silicone or cut off the ring inside the TOS to disable it.
If you choose to keep it functional, just make sure it wont get vibrated and go way overkill on what you think will be acceptable.
Good luck and look forward to seeing the lakester on the salt.....
BTW:
Tech will not like your current paint job.....I know you mentioned you were going to paint it but it is something to consider if you were going to put it off for a while.
~JH
~JH
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Let me start by saying that the requirment for a tip over switch was pointed out to me during tech at Maxton I cannot find it in the SCTA rule book, what page ?? When the stock wiring harness was modified the tos was removed. I am sure that I can find where the wires go in the ECU but I will have to check with the guy that did the harness to see if a resistor was added some modification to the ECU was done? Is there a simple way to do this if it is required for SCTA-BN?
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The Ford Tauras/fuel pump idea sounds simple. JH I will add some color to my car before Speedweek, maybe some flames and bright numbers? Don't want to get lost on the salt.
BHarmon
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O.K. now I am answering my own questions, don't know if that is healthy or not but I did find the rule that requires you to have an inertial switch to disable the electric fuel pump. I think that the Ford switch wired directly at the fuel pump may be the easyest and may not be as sensative to vibration as the stock Hyabusa t.o.s.?
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Bruce
On a Hyabusa or injected Suzuki's in general and Aprilia's which use the same switch
The switch itself is a U shaped bit of brass with a ring sitting in the U which when inverted, generally makes a contact and turns the fuel pump relay off. I say generally, because unlike a proper switch, there is no spring to put pressure on the contact and it relies entirely on gravity acting on a small brass ring
The tip over switch has a resistor in it
It's sent a signal by the engine management to check and see if the switch is still connected
If the engine management doesn't see the resistor, it turns off the fuel pump relay which also powers the injectors and coils
The thing about them is, they turn the relay off only when the switch is making contact
Or if you roll over, it turns off until you are upright again, then it turns back on
So they can produce an intermittent fault just from vibration, which only shows up as a memorized fault code when you plug in the diagnostic tool
The other thing they do , and this is a Suzuki thing. If it's disconnected, the bike will start and run for just the length of time the fuel pump primes and then stop.
The Hyabusa TOS Has a black wire coming from the engine management to a Black/Yellow group of wires
G
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The Ford switch drops a steel ball off a magnet if bumped hard enough and trips a switch. Zillions of them running around on Fords. I guess other cars ahve pretty much the same thing.
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Bruce
The switch rule is in 3.I.1 for cars and 7.H.8 for bikes
G
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Painless Wiring also makes the electric fuel pump cut off switch. Bought mine from Summit Racing 94 dollars if I remember right.
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Leadfoot;
Mine-- from a Ford Taurus-- cost $5 but it wasn't a new one. :-P
Regards, Neil Tucson, AZ
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Leadfoot;
Mine-- from a Ford Taurus-- cost $5 but it wasn't a new one. :-P
Regards, Neil Tucson, AZ
Now that price sounds painless. :-D Tony
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I bought a new one from Ford and with a discount it was around $15. But the pig tail to plug it in was $17 or so. Not much in there to wear out.
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Thanks for the help, see you in August God willing.
BHarmon
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Leadfoot;
Mine-- from a Ford Taurus-- cost $5 but it wasn't a new one. :-P
Regards, Neil Tucson, AZ
Now that price sounds painless. :-D Tony
I got mine at the local wrecking yard. The owner said "Don't worry about it." I said "If I can find one cheaper can I return it and get my money back?" :-D Free's good, too. :cheers: Wayno
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Summit also sells the stock Ford switch for about $30.00 and a stock connector with pigtail for about $5.00- it is listed as a part for a Mustang ... I don't recall exactly what search criteria I entered.... fuel pump shutoff switch or something.... Recently, I have been so pressed for time that taking an hour to go to the auto wreckers is literally out of the question, so I just order online and have it sent....
Oh, and the Ford inertia switch is a 3 connector switch. One position is normally open and the other is normally closed.... which makes it also usable as a grounding circuit if you need one for some reason.... so, DO make sure you use the correct two terminals in order for the switch to function correctly in your application.
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Summit also sells the stock Ford switch for about $30.00 and a stock connector with pigtail for about $5.00- it is listed as a part for a Mustang ... I don't recall exactly what search criteria I entered.... fuel pump shutoff switch or something.... Recently, I have been so pressed for time that taking an hour to go to the auto wreckers is literally out of the question, so I just order online and have it sent....
Oh, and the Ford inertia switch is a 3 connector switch. One position is normally open and the other is normally closed.... which makes it also usable as a grounding circuit if you need one for some reason.... so, DO make sure you use the correct two terminals in order for the switch to function correctly in your application.
The other issue I see at salvage yards around here is that they are a pain to deal with anymore! Most will not even let you in the yard to LOOK. Sad, as a teen the yards allowed me to even pull rearends. In light of that I may just order new. :-(
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The summit search is " Fuel pump cutout switch.
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The other issue I see at salvage yards around here is that they are a pain to deal with anymore! Most will not even let you in the yard to LOOK. Sad, as a teen the yards allowed me to even pull rearends. In light of that I may just order new. :-(
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'Yard picking has changed around here too. Who you know, phase of the moon, etc determines how much you can do yourself or how small an item they will dig out for you. Inventorys are down, it's all about prepping for the crusher businees.
Know anyone that runs demolition derbies? Removing/bypassing the switch is part of normal prep on the Ford stuff if they have any experience at all..... Have 'em set a few aside for you.
Ed
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Will the stock Hayabusa tip over switch work in a car at Bonneville or is there a better solution??
BHarmon
The stock tip switch will not do anything until it is laid over 45 degrees, so I would guess it would work for a crash. Be sure to mount it with the rubber ditty it is mounted in on the bike.
We put in one of the Ford pieces in the lakester. We have toyed with the idea of putting it back in the parachute circuit as an automatic in case of a crash.
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I think I would be inclined to use the ford switch if it was three wire
Although just checking on summit's site they are nil stock
Probably set it up so that it earths the main ignition and fuel feed thru a change over relay with a fuse it could pop so that the fuel and ignition stay off if it comes back upright
G
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Ford must have put that switch in every vehicle they made. I had to take a couple out of Escort GT's we were prepping to rally with the SCCA. Back right interior panel on the wheel hump.
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Ford must have put that switch in every vehicle they made. I had to take a couple out of Escort GT's we were prepping to rally with the SCCA. Back right interior panel on the wheel hump.
They were part of the fuel pump electrical circuit on all Fords since the mid/late 1990s.... I believe it was mandated by national safety standards... and all of the other manufacturers had to have them too.... but the Ford switch just happens to be an easy one to get out of the cars and mount and adapt to any other application.
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Got a couple of Ford style 3 pin from a local Carquest for 25 bucks each.
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In Canada... from any of the parts stores, they are like $80.00... I guess i gotta check the parts store just south of the border next time.... well, I do have to get a bunch of stuff from Summit anyways...
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In Canada... from any of the parts stores, they are like $80.00... I guess i gotta check the parts store just south of the border next time.... well, I do have to get a bunch of stuff from Summit anyways...
In the old days they called that bootlegging....
although I think it was stuff moving from Canada to the US....
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Rockauto.com lists the FV7 switch at $63.
I used one on a Production race car and kept tripping it in the braking bumps.
By moving it closer to CG of car it helped with false tripping, and I could reach it while strapped in.
John
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In Canada... from any of the parts stores, they are like $80.00... I guess i gotta check the parts store just south of the border next time.... well, I do have to get a bunch of stuff from Summit anyways...
In the old days they called that bootlegging....
although I think it was stuff moving from Canada to the US....
In Canada, they call it increased merchandising costs.... due to greater distances between drop-off points, higher transportation, heating etc.... but the sad fact remains that Canada, with about 2 1/2 times the land mass of th USA and one tenth the population is a country that, for a corporation to make the same amount of profit as in, say, the USA, the prices have to be much higher... we applaud the relative ease that, nowadays, things from the USA can be "seamlessly" shipped to us at fairly reasonable cost although the other issues in regards to easing the shipping of goods under rules from the FTA or NAFTA have not been, to any great extent, implemented by most US based suppliers, so there are still paperwork and delay issues.....
To Summit's credit, all in all,they do a pretty good job shipping to Canada.... but ..... there is one particular supplier of aftermarket Harley stuff with whom I deal almost exclusively due to their abilty to collect OUR sales taxes and a brokerage fee and then ship (via UPS or Fedex) any order straight to my (or anyone else in Canada) house or business address with NO extra surprise charges at the end.... and usually do it in 3 to 4 days.