Landracing Forum
Bonneville Salt Flats Discussion => SCTA Rule Questions => Topic started by: a/bgc on April 19, 2011, 10:54:49 PM
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If anyone can help thanks
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Not sure what you mean by "within the same engine". An engine swap is using an engine design family that was never offered in the car.
The example that was used for a long time was a 350 Chevy in a '57 Chevy is not a swap however a 454 Chevy in a '57 Chevy would be. If a '57 Chevy originally had a V8 in it it was either a 265 or a 283 but it was of the "small block Chevy" design none the less. A '57 Chevy never came with the 454 "big block Chevy" design. So, you can run you standard "small block Chevy" in any displacement you want and it's not an engine swap so long as you stick to the same engine design. Once you go to the "big block Chevy" design then you've made a swap because a '57 Chevy was never offered with a big block motor. This is what allows you to run different engine classes in Production ie a 427 cid small block chevy can run B/PRO where a 427 cid big block chevy would have to run as B/GC because a BBC would be a swap assuming we're still talking about the same car.
So, it looks like you want to run a 5.4L motor. If the engine design between the 4.6L and 5.4L is basically the same then it won't be considered a swap. Further, if the 5.4L is just a "punched out" version of the 4.6L then it's not a swap. I don't know anything about mod motors but if the 5.4L and 6.4L motors share the same head bolt pattern, bellhousing bolt pattern, oil pan bolt pattern, etc, then they're the same family and would not be considered a swap. A Windsor motor in a mod motor car would be a swap as would the new 5.0 Coyote motor.
Hope this helps.
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Thanks a lot....very informative....i meant to say engine family...im new to the sport
and some of the rules are a bit confusing....your help just opened up my playbook...thanks..again.
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You can use other V8 mod motors as long as the head bolt pattern and the bellhousing bolt pattern remains the same. That is not considered an engine swap. Also you may "Build" your motor as ever you wish. Bore, stroke, aftermarket heads. Whatever. Go for it. The competion will.
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Remember, in order to run in GC, you MUST have either one or all of the following:
An engine swap as is being discussed
A quick change rear end (Winters, Franklin, Speedway, etc)
Non-stock supercharger (turbos are a form of supercharging)
The last one will obviously put you into Blown GC.
So, if you want to run a 5.4L mod motor in a car that came with a 4.6L mod motor and lets assume for a moment that all mod motors are of the same design family, then you would need either a quick change rear end or a blower/turbo to run in GC/BGC. Otherwise you'll be expected to run in Production.
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The answer also hinges upon what specific car body you are wanting to run. If you are wanting to run a 1994 up to (what was it?) 2005 or 2006 Mustang, you may find that the first 2 years that the body was in production that the cars were equipped with 5 liter (302) Ford small blocks which probably would even make running a small block Ford engine NOT an engine swap.... A WORD OF WARNING ON THIS THOUGH....what I just said is NOT WRITTEN IN STONE!
The specific answer would be, though, that if you ran a small block Chevy instead of the 4.6, it would definitely be an engine swap. I am not familiar with the 4.6/5.4 Ford engines so I do not know if they are the same design family or not.... but the venerable older 5.0/5.8 (or Boss 302/Boss 351) is definitely NOT the same engine design and neither is the Ford FE (specifically a 427 tunnel port...?) n.... or the 429/460 engine. How about a Boss 429 built down to 370 C.I.D.....
Have I got you seeing it clearly now or are you even more confused?
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AFAIK, you could put a ship engine in it, or a lawnmower engine.
You just need to mount it so #1 cylinder is close (there is a number of inches) to where the stock location is.
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as long as the head bolt pattern and the bellhousing bolt pattern remains the same
Doesn't that make the miniature Dodge hemi legal in 1955-57 Plymouths?
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I would certainly say yes. Then I would ask "Why?" '55 to '57 Plymouth is not what I would call slick.
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Fastman614
From what i understand is that ford retired the 5.0 back in 94..since then ford has used either a 3.8...4.0...or a 4.6 liter in their mustangs...from 96 to 05...till now that new 5.0 came out..im planning on running a 04 or 05 mustang...starting to understand much better....
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Article in new Hot Rod on the 2012 Mustang gives a year/engine availabily break down.
DW
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So what's the word? Are the 5.4's from the same engine family as the 4.6's?
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Yes they are....part of the modular engine family...which include the 5.0 cammer...5.0 coyote... and variations of the 6.8l.....would it even be possible to build to my needs and drop in a 351w in a 04..or 05 mustang...will any of these of engines hold up to high rpm and high horsepower....to reach speeds of 200 + mph...i know gearing of the rearend and tranny have a lot to do in reaching those speeds...i should find a motor to work with first then start talking about adding a procharger..tranny..and a rearend...how did you or how would start a project like this..
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I started with a 12 pack and a couple of buddies. We decided what we thought would be the best way to reach our goal, considering what we had to start with and personal preference. Then we did what we could afford. At the time I think the 12 pack was important Made the project seem like a good idea
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Fastman614
From what i understand is that ford retired the 5.0 back in 94..since then ford has used either a 3.8...4.0...or a 4.6 liter in their mustangs...from 96 to 05...till now that new 5.0 came out..im planning on running a 04 or 05 mustang...starting to understand much better....
A/BGC...
So, if the body is the same as a '94 body, there could be a case made to also allow any of the older generation small block Ford engines to run as production but I do not think that the rule is applied that way. There is a current build diary elsewhere on here in which the owner has made the Camaro a 1973 model instead of a 1972 model in order to be a legal (classic) gas coupe (by installing a big block Chevy engine, which was available in the 1970 to 1972 Camaros). So, if the body is an 2005 model, I would say that, in light of that build being now legally a gas coupe the requirement of an engine swap would necessitate something other than a modular engine series t be installed unless the 5.4 engine is NOT physically dimensionally the same as the 4.6 engine... my sentimental favorite would be a Boss 302 or Boss 351...
The person who has weighed in on this topic, dw230, is Dan Warner.... who is the man in charge of record certifications and class compliance. Put a detailed submission together for him and let him render his opinion.
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Might want to send that to the scta tech answers or the chair for Gas Coupes listed in the rule book instead of Dan. Dan has a lot on his plate and while his answers are great info since Dan is one of the most knowlegable out there, they are not official rulings. The written answer should be part of your log book.
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I am not familiar with the Ford line up of engines as I am with others. I would hope that Dynoroom Mike(LeFevers) will weigh in here. He is my go-to guy on engine questions.
Take Stainless' suggestion and get written confirmation to keep in your log book when an answer is rendered.
DW
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It's interesting that we are all pretty competent on the linage of engines from 50 years or more ago. Anything from the last 10 years is kind of a mystery. I just brought my new GMC home and I know it has a 6 liter pushrod V8. I guess it's related to the LS motors. There seem to be a bunch of them. Some iron, some aluminum. In the good days they started out small--265. And in time grew. Like kids. 283--327--350--400. And I looked, and it was good.
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Dan, what I was referring to here was NOT so much the specific engine questions but the body/engine combinations etc... the 1994 to around 2005 Mustangs were all the same body.... during the first year or two of the series, the cars had 5 liter engines - which are the old Ford 302 engines.... the availabilty of a 5 liter was discontinued when Ford changed to the newer modular design after that first year or two. I do know that the two engines ARE NOT the same design ..... the specific reference wasto this - would a virtually identical newer year of that body design be considered to have an engine swap if a 5 liter engine was put into, say, a 2005 model car - in the exact same manner as it seems to apply to a virtually identical newer (than 1972) Camaro?
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..... the specific reference wasto this - would a virtually identical newer year of that body design be considered to have an engine swap if a 5 liter engine was put into, say, a 2005 model car - in the exact same manner as it seems to apply to a virtually identical newer (than 1972) Camaro?
- in the exact same manner as it seems to apply to a virtually identical newer (than 1972) Camaro when installing a big block Chevy?
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This is the link to the thread on the Camaro to which I am referring
http://www.landracing.com/forum/index.php/topic,8857.0/topicseen.html
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Those questions are why I have people.
DW
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I am not Dan but as an interested reader I can see no reason that what is true for the Camaro would not be true for the Mustang. Historically you have had to have the correct trim to look like the year model that came with the engine family you wish to use. There is no reason that the Ford "W" motor and "Mod" motors should be any different. Is there something I am missing that you could point out?
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The engine swap rule says: 4.N .......engine design family that was not available as a factory or dealer installed option for a given vehicle year.
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The 94 thru the 98 mustang have the same body style...the 5.0 was used till 95...in 96 it was changed to the 4.6....still trying to find out if that 5.0..is in the same engine family...99 thru 04 have the same body style..with 3.8...4.0...4.6...and on some special models of the cobra ran a 5.4 supercharged engine...like the lighting truck...and then the body changed again in 05..the 5.0 hasn't been used since then till...now...all of these engines are in the same family...still looking to see if the 5.0 used till 95 is the same family...
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The 5.0 used up till 95 in the mustangs was part of the push rod windsor family..not the modular...
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The engine swap rule says: 4.N .......engine design family that was not available as a factory or dealer installed option for a given vehicle year.
Like JamesJ said... for a given year... the rules on that stuff are murky... make sure you have multiple serial number tags and titles to go with them.... then you can go from one category to the other....
But just to make things a bit more interesting.... the interpretation of the rules is ALSO that ANY body panels of a car series IS legal to run on ANY YEAR of car within that series... so, going back to the Camaro example, a 1970(1/2) Camaro CAN be legal with 1981 front end and spoilers from either a Trans Am or Z28.... now, how do you prove by specific trim the year of the car?
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The 5.0 used up till 95 in the mustangs was part of the push rod windsor family..not the modular...
For this topic the above quote is correct. The "Windsor" family is not the same as the "Modular" The Windsor engines started at 221 cu in & stopped at 351 cu in. Of course the SCTA allows you to do anything internally to the engine so 400+ cu in is very easy.
The Modular engine comes in many different configurations and displacements. Meaning a 2 valve, 3 valve, & 4 valve configuration along with the different sizes.
The engine swap rule says: 4.N .......engine design family that was not available as a factory or dealer installed option for a given vehicle year.
Like JamesJ said... for a given year... the rules on that stuff are murky... make sure you have multiple serial number tags and titles to go with them.... then you can go from one category to the other....
But just to make things a bit more interesting.... the interpretation of the rules is ALSO that ANY body panels of a car series IS legal to run on ANY YEAR of car within that series... so, going back to the Camaro example, a 1970(1/2) Camaro CAN be legal with 1981 front end and spoilers from either a Trans Am or Z28.... now, how do you prove by specific trim the year of the car?
The above post is a tougher nut and it was not what I thought should have happened to the rules as it becomes very tough to police, that is why the competitor must be involved. No one person can know everything about all the makes and models. That being said the way the rules are written now the above statement is correct so you better make sure you have documention for the body-spoiler kit or add ons to your racer. They need to be in the log book and signed off if possible. Make sure you id the car as the correct year for the items being used. The SCTA will not (at this time) chase down vin numbers to verify the year but if you have an '82 firebird trans-am and are running it with a '88 rear spoiler & a '92 nose be ready 'cause that's a no no........
Dang........ how'd I get called on the carpet? :-P
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Mike,
It is not what I thought should have happened with the rules either.... but it apparently started with the Studebakers from the 1950s..... the '53 or '54 front ends were the more areodynamic of the group (as well as, IMO, the nicest looking) and were deemed legal to run on newer Studebakers.... so, the interpretation of the rules that was legal for Studebakers was also applicable to Camaros, Firebirds, Vegas, Monzas, Mustangs etc....
I recall vividly an event that occurred at Muroc in 2000 where there was a mid 70s Firebird with with a 79-81 Camaro front end... it was disqualified from setting a record- NOT because of the mix of years and makes of body panels but becaue it was generically a Firebird with a big block Chevy running in production.... I asked after the body panel mix and match and was summarily informed that SCTS-BNI accepted all production panels of any car series as being legal and if i didn't like it I could protest it.... My answer was ...NO.... I won't protest it, but if that is the way it is, I will reserve the right to, at some time in the future, build an "answer to" car..... that IS in the planning stage.
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Just put a Chevy in it. Problem solved. :-D
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The 5.0 used up till 95 in the mustangs was part of the push rod windsor family..not the modular...
For this topic the above quote is correct. The "Windsor" family is not the same as the "Modular" The Windsor engines started at 221 cu in & stopped at 351 cu in. Of course the SCTA allows you to do anything internally to the engine so 400+ cu in is very easy.
The Modular engine comes in many different configurations and displacements. Meaning a 2 valve, 3 valve, & 4 valve configuration along with the different sizes.
Would i be able to run the new boss 302 mod in a 05 mustang that came with a 4.6 in the a/bgc class with a procharger..
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Yes, as far as I know the "Coyote" is just a variant of the mod motor.
Although as a 302" engine you'd run in D/BGC with a record of ~270 mph.......
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Sweet...after hearing..reading...and talking about engines swaps....i found out it can real expensive....thanks a lot....
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Yes, as far as I know the "Coyote" is just a variant of the mod motor.
Although as a 302" engine you'd run in D/BGC with a record of ~270 mph.......
If the engine were to get bored..would that change the engine class...i would think so...correct...
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A 302" is a "D" motor. The max size for D is 305.99". If you go larger it becomes C. The engine sizes are on page 15 of the '10 rule book. Don't have my '11 book yet. :cry:
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Sorry to burst your bubble. :-)
The next engine class break is 306" to 372" so yes if you bore the 302 out to 306 or larger your in the next class.
The record there is only 295 mph, if you stay blown. :-o
If it were easy everyone would do it huh? :cheers:
You do have a rule book don't you?
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The new Coyote is just a mod motor derivative. They can all be treated as the same. You could run Production (stock) class if you want. The fact that you are putting on a non-stock blower (Procharger) turns all of those motor into a gas class.
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Sorry to burst your bubble. :-)
The next engine class break is 306" to 372" so yes if you bore the 302 out to 306 or larger your in the next class.
The record there is only 295 mph, if you stay blown. :-o
If it were easy everyone would do it huh? :cheers:
You do have a rule book don't you?
Only 295...a walk in the park...... :-o.....i do have one...i just need another to keep in my toolbox at work...
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I have many of the more common engines grouped by bore pitch to make the relationships easier to understand.
http://victorylibrary.com/mopar/m-table-c.htm
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Wow! Mr. Panic . . . nice job and many thanx. :-)
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I found a guy that's running a 460 "Windsor family" engine in an 05 mustang...hes been telling me that the 4.6l mod motor is almost identical in width and height.hes going to e-mail more info with pictures..which should make the swap just a tad simple...he has his entire build on different web page...its a 1/4 mile built drag car...my question is...do i need to run the factory installed wiring harness...couldn't find anything related to that in the rule book...but i would assume that you dont...and also..is it mandatory for all the factory lights to be in working condition...
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In an earlier post, I stated that the cars were the same until (what) 2005.... I subsequently learned that in 1999, Ford re-skinned the car.... the basic chassis is supposedly virtually identical to the '94 to'98 cars and by virtue of that, the installation of a windsor engine should be able to be done with "factory" mount parts etc.....
Your question about the factor wiring harness now.... is that in regards to class legality or expediency? I have never to my recollection seen anything in the rules that states the original wiring haness must be used....but then, I have never dun production or gas coupe either.... it appears to me that how you get the mandatory equpment on the vehicle into operating condition is not the question .... the rules are that it must be operable and do not state by what wires or wiring harness(es) the electricity must flow....
My personal philosophy in matters like this is taken from racing legend Smokey Yunick who stated that, if the rules don't say you can't, then it's LEGAL!
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In Gas Coupe class all lights, for the body model used, must be in place. No painted lights, no decals. They do not need to work.
DW
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Amen....to smokeys statment.... :-D....thanks dw...and fastman....on the lights and the factory harness...i had posted some of the changes that ford made to their mustangs on the second page....so going with fastmans...new info....and my other source..and everyone one thats has helped me so..far.....i'll be going through and building a 460.....for my..05 mustang...that i just bought...
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a 460.... blown?...... with Boss heads????? I always liked the looks of those engines....
I was damned close to having one of those engines that HAD heavily damaged internals... but it looked okay externally..... I wanted it for a display piece.... and when I said that to the guy, I guess it got him thinking..... by the time I got back with the cash, HE was KEEPING it .... for the same reason.... and, as far as I know, he still has it.
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A 460 Windsor? :? 460 is from the Cleveland Family, and I believe the last year they put a cleveland engine in the mustangs was 1973. You should be able to get the 460 into 2005, a lot of after market parts for this application. The 460 ford web site can be a lot of help for your build.
Steve
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Ive just been talking and reading lot about Windsor and modular motors...that Ive got my names mixed up.....sorry guys.....the Cleveland is part of the..ford 335 engine family.... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ford_335_engine
The 460 is part of the....385 family...
Http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ford_385_engine........Ive been talking with people on....the mustang pit stop...forum....and a couple other site....they have all been a lot of help...
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a 460 inch Winsor IS possible... but it aint popular.
you will have to forget all about the chevy / GM based thoughts pertaining to small block and big block.
The 'Ford" offers four different deck heights from factory based blocks, which allowed strokes to fit into the "E" class under 260 inches up to the 430 inch range and since the basic rule is pertaining to having the same head bolt pattern and intake manifold bolt pattern, all of the various types and styles of straight-inline valve or canted valve heads will all interchange.
this rule was checked and tested time and time again twenty-five years ago by me and mikey cook in my T-Bird or his PANTERA, which held about 12 various records over the years...
The reknown "Cleveland" block is not the same as a 429/460 (big)block design..... the head bolt pattern and bore spacing is a bunch different.
an original cleveland block offers no actual advantage to gain inches since the cylinders are actually thin in comparison to anything offered today in the aftermarket..a common STOCK -351 Winsor block can easily go to 410 inches due to bore capability and stoke / 9.500"deck acceptance, which the cleveland (9.200"deck)never could easily fit.
....allthough there is a "400" block ( aka truck block)which can go to 4.125 stroke due to the taller 10.300" deck height.
BTW, I would like to know how he made the engine spoken of, up to his proclaimed 460 inches
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the 1995 era mustang body was available mid season with either the pushrod 302 or later the OHC head "modular" type....
.........these are two totally different design engines..
YUP,
I am the same KID
that you may have remembered from WAY BACK THEN.....
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Is bonneville about 4000ft above sea level....
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A little more -- 4236 in town, 4261 at the airport.
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With utah having a higher elevation than here in california...should that come into play when choosing parts...or is it build and tune for that elevation...
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With utah having a higher elevation than here in california...should that come into play when choosing parts...or is it build and tune for that elevation...
Parts is parts... they don't care where they are.... getting the motor to perform at WOT for an extended period at that altitude is the tough part of the salt, that and the gremlins... :| Oh and you have to do that better than anyone else in the world ever has if you want a record...
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With utah having a higher elevation than here in california...should that come into play when choosing parts...or is it build and tune for that elevation...
Build it like you are racing in Denver. Tony
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Another newbie question..carburetors that protrude through the cars hood shall be covered with a flash shield...a device to encompass the air inlet of a carburetors sides top and rear...i would quess that a top hat of a procharger would work as a flash shield...or would that be something different...and cutting of the stock hood to make room for the shield would still be legal..?....
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Have you attended an event and looked at the vehicles similar in class to see what the vehicle rules compliance should look like? It is recommended, and while it may slow you down a little on your quest, it will save you a lot of time and money in the long run. Post on the introduction thread, tell us a little about yourself, what you want to do. It seems you are in the planning stage, getting your ducks in a row. Take the rule book with you to the salt, be there on inspection days to watch.
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Listen to the advice Stainless gave you, it will allow you to see the different cars, meet some teams and get an overview of how an event is run.
Younger folks might not know or remember about the early years of racing. If you look at the picture I posted you'll See that this car is running Stromberg 97's, and has a piece of sheet metal over them. That is a "flash Shield".
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Have you attended an event and looked at the vehicles similar in class to see what the vehicle rules compliance should look like? It is recommended, and while it may slow you down a little on your quest, it will save you a lot of time and money in the long run. Post on the introduction thread, tell us a little about yourself, what you want to do. It seems you are in the planning stage, getting your ducks in a row. Take the rule book with you to the salt, be there on inspection days to watch.
I havent attended that kind of event...im trying to gather as much info as i can from others and spending a lot of time on the web...gathering things up that pertain to the class i wish to compete in....so far ive been going on the advice ive received here on the landspeed forum..and other mustang forums...trying to get as prepared as a i can with the rules...so that i know what to look for when i visit bonneville this year...i'll have a pen...paper..camera...video camera....ready for the inspection...i live in los angeles and el mirage is next weekend... i'll be there ready to take some notes and getting familiar with landspeed racing....and i'll take your advise on starting an intro page...i shouldve done that from the start.....thanks again......
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Listen to the advice Stainless gave you, it will allow you to see the different cars, meet some teams and get an overview of how an event is run.
Younger folks might not know or remember about the early years of racing. If you look at the picture I posted you'll See that this car is running Stromberg 97's, and has a piece of sheet metal over them. That is a "flash Shield".
I will take his advise...i know that el mirage starts next weekend and i'll be there ready to start talking and taking notes from other teams and racers...thanks for the picture with the sheild...i tried to find a picture of it yesterday on the web for sometime...even looked on the nhra forums...but couldnt find one...
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A lot of us on this forum will be at El Mirage May 13, 14, 15th, and like you said, you will be there, be sure to be there on Friday, inspection starts at Noon, many of us racers will be glad to help you with any questions you have while your at that race, good luck, and welcome to Land Speed racing, Dave :cheers:
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A lot of us on this forum will be at El Mirage May 13, 14, 15th, and like you said, you will be there, be sure to be there on Friday, inspection starts at Noon, many of us racers will be glad to help you with any questions you have while your at that race, good luck, and welcome to Land Speed racing, Dave :cheers:
Thanks....i live in north hollywood...so i'll be attending all el mirage events....i'll make sure im there for inspection....is friday an all day inspection...
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From the front page of this website:
The agenda for the May meet is:
May 13, Friday, Inspection noon to 4:00pm
4pm Rookie Orientation – meet at Registration Trailer
5pm Course Walk
May 14, Saturday, Inspection 8:00am to 4:00pm
At the Start Line:
7:00am Patrol Meeting
7:15am Driver's Meeting
7:30am Start Running
May 15, Sunday, Inspection 7:00am to 10:00am
At the Start Line:
7:00am Patrol Meeting
7:15am Driver's Meeting
7:30am Start Running
DW
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Test case
Chevy 235 or 261, the inline motors available as standard options in 1958 Chevy trucks, according to wikipedia.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet_Straight-6_engine
GM atlas engine, also an inline 6 motor.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GM_Atlas_engine
http://www.scta-bni.org/Bonneville/SpeedWeek_10/photos/photos_15/Set_2/CIMG4784.JPG
Same bolt pattern?
Same bellhousing?
Correct be if I am wrong but I assume this truck is running an atlas engine based on the cubic inches marked on the hood. But isn't that a stretch for E/PP, or do I not understand the rules.
Zenon
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254 ci?
Ive never seen under the hood of that blue truck but it could have a bored/stroked/destroked inline 6 or a bored/stroked/destroked V8.
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A 254 V8 was an easy engine to build if you had a 262 Chevy Monza/Nova V8 from 1975 to 1976.... you took out the 3.1 inch stroke crank and put in a 3.0 inch stroke crank.... and the truck WAS legal with any SBC motor.... as it was the same engine family as a 265 or 283 V8.... there are also A LOT of 2.9 inch stroke SBC cranks out there.... one of those in a 265 block or in a lare model 305 block, you get a displacement around that ..... it could also be a LATE model 250 CID Chev inline 6 with a .030" overbore.....
I figure... if that truck had a STOCK inline 6..... it would be running in XO class.... wouldn't it?
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I am new to this and it all makes my head spin. Maybe it is a destroked V8. I can not find any info on the truck. It must be some simple explanation like that. I just ass-umed that it was an Atlas engine based on a Google search of "254". Zenon
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No questions about the El Mirage record holder's engine family. :cheers:
(http://www.scta-bni.org/El%20Mirage/ELM%2010/July/photos/Ed/cars/0981.JPG)
Mike
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Fastman-I get what you are saying, it must be a v8.
So inline engines always run in XO?
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No -- only some vintage inline engines.
See Rule Book.
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If it was a 235-261 based engine it would have to run XO. V8 should be good for PP. Atlas I don't know.
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No questions about the El Mirage record holder's engine family. :cheers:
(http://www.scta-bni.org/El%20Mirage/ELM%2010/July/photos/Ed/cars/0981.JPG)
Mike
There are no questions about the Bonneville record holder either. It is running a destroked V8. This question came about just due to me trying to understand the rules and only racing on the internet and in the rulebook.
If I understand correctly, an engine from the Atlas family could not run in a 50's Production Pickup, and an inline 6 from those models would run in XO. Let me push this one step further though, If someone wanted to run an inline 6 in a 60's, 70's, or 80's pickup for ?/PP, they could and it would be in the engine classes denoted by A,B,C,etc....because the cutoff for XO is 1959?
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Yes. If you had a '57 Chevy pickup and installed a later 7 main bearing (194-215-230-250-292) Chevy six you would run in the engine class your cubic inches fit. XO and XXO would only be for 216-235-261 type of engines and I have seen the earlier ('49-'55 first gen) get buy with 270-302 GMC motors and you could always badge the thing as a GMC I guess.
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Thanks for the education. Seems that it is somewhat a moot point since obviously guys are running smaller bore V8's in PP. I will say it is interesting that the record holders at Bonneville and El Mirage are a 50's and 60's pick up since the class of ?/PP is so wide open in terms of the model years available. Those are great bodies to look at but seem to be low on the aero factor.
Mike- Is #981 your truck? Thanks for the pic and the input either way.
Zenon
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Not mine. I like it, though, because I have a yellow 1960 F100 panel :mrgreen:
Mike
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No questions about the El Mirage record holder's engine family. :cheers:
(http://www.scta-bni.org/El%20Mirage/ELM%2010/July/photos/Ed/cars/0981.JPG)
Mike
There are no questions about the Bonneville record holder either. It is running a destroked V8. This question came about just due to me trying to understand the rules and only racing on the internet and in the rulebook.
If I understand correctly, an engine from the Atlas family could not run in a 50's Production Pickup, and an inline 6 from those models would run in XO. Let me push this one step further though, If someone wanted to run an inline 6 in a 60's, 70's, or 80's pickup for ?/PP, they could and it would be in the engine classes denoted by A,B,C,etc....because the cutoff for XO is 1959?
Of course, they made the old Ford Y Block stock with displacements of 239 and 256 cubic inches.... both were L
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OOPS!.... my sausage sized fingers hit the wrong button.... both were LEGAL sized E Class motors..... but ...... I sorta think a kicka** smallblock of under 260 C.I.D. could pack a few miles per hour on to the record.