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East Coast Timing Association => ECTA General Chat => Topic started by: Cajun Kid on April 19, 2011, 07:51:14 PM

Title: Motor Hurt Worse than first thought.
Post by: Cajun Kid on April 19, 2011, 07:51:14 PM
I just got some bad news on the "E" motor...

Before the Bad news update, the good news it could have been MUCH WORSE...

The Block is damaged beyond repair,,, 3 cracked cylinders... 1 exhaust valve broke clean off at the head, the lucky part is the broke piece blew right back up in the head, I will have to replace that one Piston as well.

I need a GM  305 Block ASAP... anyone have one or know of any new old stock laying at a GM dealer ?

So I need a good used 305 Block that can be cleaned up at max 30 over... or a new 305 block.
1 piston, 1 ex valve, rings,  rod and main bearings, cam bearings, (may go with full set of Ti valves).

Good news is Crank and Rods are all OK... One head great, one head fixable damage from valve breakage,

Bad news is unless we locate a Block ASAP with all the custom machining needed we will not make May event with "E" motor,,, I may drop in a spare "C" motor to stay in the points chase,,, Oh man,,

"That's Racing"  and 8500 rpms sure don't help keep things together.  My motor man says he is glad I shut it down when I did or we would have had catastrophic failure.

Charles
Title: Re: Motor Hurt Worse than first thought.
Post by: Seldom Seen Slim on April 19, 2011, 08:02:11 PM
Another way to say it, Charles, is "Ain't this racin' fun?" :cry:

Bummer, bummer, on the hurt motor.  No matter how much fun - it still hurts the wallet.
Title: Re: Motor Hurt Worse than first thought.
Post by: fastman614 on April 19, 2011, 08:24:12 PM
I remember telling Bill Burke ..... "dad Bonneville" himself- one of the original 49ers..... why do we keep doing this?..... cuz we never learn.... it would be cheaper ust dig a deep hole in your back yard and toss all the money in it.....

I do have a 305 v8 though.... it came out of a 78 Monza.... and I still have the Monza too..... shipping would costya though....
Title: Re: Motor Hurt Worse than first thought.
Post by: 38flattie on April 19, 2011, 08:42:34 PM
Charles, I posted this for you- hope it helps!


http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=582189
Title: Re: Motor Hurt Worse than first thought.
Post by: Cajun Kid on April 19, 2011, 09:01:58 PM
Charles, I posted this for you- hope it helps!


http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=582189


Thanks very much,,, I hope I can find one by the weekend,,,

Charles
Title: Re: Motor Hurt Worse than first thought.
Post by: desotoman on April 19, 2011, 09:17:50 PM
Charles,

Check the link. A Guy has one for you in S.C..

Tom G.
Title: Re: Motor Hurt Worse than first thought.
Post by: Dr Goggles on April 19, 2011, 09:26:15 PM
8500 rpms sure don't help keep things together.  My motor man says he is glad I shut it down when I did or we would have had catastrophic failure.
Charles

Crikey chuck, 8 and a half grand E motor?...that should be in something with a bit of shape :roll: :roll:....

Hope you get it back together in time.......................
Title: Re: Motor Hurt Worse than first thought.
Post by: Captthundarr on April 19, 2011, 09:53:19 PM
gotta love the LSR fam. blow em up and the help is just around the corner. :cheers: :cheers:
Title: Re: Motor Hurt Worse than first thought.
Post by: Cajun Kid on April 19, 2011, 09:56:12 PM
Just spoke to Ed in SC  he said I could have the 305 ,, all I have to do is go get it,,, 12 hour round trip drive,,, no time before the weekend,,, I may take himup on it,, but still looking for one a lot closer..

Thanks for all the help...keep it coming...

Charles
Title: Re: Motor Hurt Worse than first thought.
Post by: racer x on April 19, 2011, 10:02:28 PM
Come on Charles you are on a mission YOU CAN DO IT .
Title: Re: Motor Hurt Worse than first thought.
Post by: 38flattie on April 19, 2011, 10:39:22 PM
Charles, I've shipped a lot of engine with Enginesdirect.net (kschultz@enginesdirect.net)

They can probably have it to you before the weekend, as cheap as you get drive and get it.

Just a thought.

Good luck!
Title: Re: Motor Hurt Worse than first thought.
Post by: wobblywalrus on April 19, 2011, 10:57:24 PM
Wow Charles.  Blowing a good trusty motor is like losing a friend.  Good luck and I hope you get it done. 
Title: Re: Motor Hurt Worse than first thought.
Post by: wheelrdealer on April 19, 2011, 11:14:29 PM
Charles,
Sorry to hear about the damage. I have faith in you C or E we will see you in May.
Bill
Title: Re: Motor Hurt Worse than first thought.
Post by: roadracer on April 20, 2011, 06:41:38 AM
Good luck to you Charles.  We blew our 636 up 3 times last year, once on the dyno.  A majority of the parts are one offs for the bike, so I feel your pain.  You still have time though.  I expect you will be there in May.
Title: Re: Motor Hurt Worse than first thought.
Post by: McRat on April 20, 2011, 10:29:30 AM
"Kids, I have some good news and even better news."

"First the good news!  I got a new engine!"

"Now the better news!  Remember when you said you weren't looking forward to 2 years of calculus in College?  That is no longer a worry!" 
Title: Re: Motor Hurt Worse than first thought.
Post by: 1 fast evo 2 on April 20, 2011, 01:01:58 PM
Aw man that sucks to hear, sorry about that Charles.
At least you have it apart and know what you need to fix it up, I'm sure it will come back stronger than ever. Best off luck gettin the block in time.
P.s. my junk is still in the trailer, haven't pull it apart yet to see all the goodness left behind.
Title: Re: Motor Hurt Worse than first thought.
Post by: Dynoroom on April 20, 2011, 01:15:37 PM
Well Charles glad to hear your okay.

Remember, it can always be worse......   :-o
Title: Re: Motor Hurt Worse than first thought.
Post by: Cajun Kid on April 20, 2011, 01:18:26 PM
Mike, yes at least now we know what is broke, what is Ok, what is fixable and what is trash.

I am doing the math and research now,,,, with the current E  and also thinking about a new Dart block and making a stout wet sump D motor.

Who knows what I will end up with... I like the E  as I can run for E, D and C records  and I kinda like my little E motor because of that.

Charles
Title: Re: Motor Hurt Worse than first thought.
Post by: WOODY@DDLLC on April 20, 2011, 05:04:19 PM
Charles, there are two "E's" in Venable so you have to do another E-motor!  :-D
Title: Re: Motor Hurt Worse than first thought.
Post by: Cajun Kid on April 20, 2011, 08:30:38 PM
The decision has been made, we will do another E motor.  I spent hours on the phone with Dart, they are casting me a one off 4 bolt main 305 SHP Block..3 week turn around...so the E will not make Maxton in May...a stock 305 block can not take 14 to 1 compession and 8500 rpm for very long,,,I am glad it lasted 3 years and we avoided terminal failure.. The crank, rods, heads all survived ...(less one valve and one piston)
We are going to come back with a leaner, meaner, stouter E motor also with provisions for power adders should I desire.

Thanks for all the help on locating a used 305 block, but it would have failed under the cylinder pressure too.

I will post pics of the head and piston later tonight.

Charles













9
Title: Re: Motor Hurt Worse than first thought.
Post by: racer x on April 20, 2011, 08:42:22 PM
Charles I kmow you don't like wires and things. But data loggers and power adders go together.at the very least get dual exhaust temp gauges.Koso north America makes a nice set up.
Title: Re: Motor Hurt Worse than first thought.
Post by: Cajun Kid on April 20, 2011, 08:50:28 PM
Eric, you know me well, and yes I hate computer assisted stuff on the car and excess wires under the hood or in the car.

We are re building the E motor  to handle power adder options and I do know "if"  I ever use any power adders I will have to get a good data logger.

Right now I am going back old school  N/A motor  (Or at least from the outside it will look old skool..!!!)

Charles
Title: Re: Motor Hurt Worse than first thought.
Post by: dw230 on April 20, 2011, 09:44:20 PM
Wires and things not allowed in Classic classes at Bonneville.

DW
Title: Re: Motor Hurt Worse than first thought.
Post by: Cajun Kid on April 20, 2011, 09:46:52 PM
Wires and things not allowed in Classic classes at Bonneville.

DW

DW thanks and that is number one reason I chose classic... I am old school,, plus  33 Vicky Fords and 53 Studes just look dam cool... especially in Satin Black !!!

Charles
Title: Re: Motor Hurt Worse than first thought.
Post by: wobblywalrus on April 20, 2011, 09:54:11 PM
Charles, what was the sequence of events?  What broke first, the cylinders cracking or the valve stem snapping?  What made the cylinders crack?
Title: Re: Motor Hurt Worse than first thought.
Post by: Cajun Kid on April 20, 2011, 10:03:24 PM
Charles, what was the sequence of events?  What broke first, the cylinders cracking or the valve stem snapping?  What made the cylinders crack?

There is no way to tell for sure what happened first, all we know is it was so close to catastrophic hydro lock.

My best guess was the high cylinder pressure combined with high rpm on an older GM 305 block (street block, not race) caused the cylinders to crack, this let water in and must have caused that exhaust valve to stick open allowing the piston to smack the heck out of it and snap the head off and jam it back up the seat/bowl area as in the pic...

The cracks must have started on the 3 to 4 shift then the valve broke last...


I will never know, but we are sure going to use a much stronger block this time.

Hindsight is 20/20..I wish I knew Dart could have made me a custom 305 block back in 2007 when we built this motor. but now I know...


Charles
Title: Re: Motor Hurt Worse than first thought.
Post by: redhotracing on April 21, 2011, 12:01:11 AM
Wires and things not allowed in Classic classes at Bonneville.

DW

Nitrous and Data Acquisition are allowed, right? I believe that is the
furthest extent that Charlie plans on taking any of his motors...
Title: Re: Motor Hurt Worse than first thought.
Post by: wobblywalrus on April 21, 2011, 12:17:06 AM
Thanks for the explanation.  It seems logical.
Title: Re: Motor Hurt Worse than first thought.
Post by: geh458 on April 21, 2011, 12:48:36 AM
Wires and things not allowed in Classic classes at Bonneville.

DW

Nitrous and Data Acquisition are allowed, right? I believe that is the
furthest extent that Charlie plans on taking any of his motors...


Data Acquisition is allowed in any class.  The use of nitrous would move a car from a "gas" class, into a "fuel" class.  In Charles' case that would move him from CGALT to CFALT.

Title: Re: Motor Hurt Worse than first thought.
Post by: redhotracing on April 21, 2011, 08:01:09 AM
Correct. I knew N2O was allowed, wasn't sure about data for Classic stuff.

It's just that pesky EFI stuff they don't allow ;)