Landracing Forum
Bonneville Salt Flats Discussion => SCTA Rule Questions => Topic started by: JoeRider677 on March 27, 2011, 03:17:20 PM
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What exactly constitutes perforations in leathers. Its pretty tough to find "no perforations" leathers. I am going to Maxton next week and I hope I can find further information.
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You may be looking at SCTA for other events, but Maxton is ECTA and the rule book says nothing about perforations in the leathers. I bought mine at Cycle Gear. They have some perfs. I'm not sure about SCTA rules if you are looking at SCTA events also. Hope this helps. I'll be at Maxton too.
Rich
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Thanks, I'm good for Maxton, Bonneville is the long range goal. I read in the SCTA book and they talk about perforations, agreed I did not see anything in the ECTA book, my leathers do not have an aero hump on the back but are acceptable for road racing.
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"perforations" are any places that will allow liquid to enter the leathers from outside. This includes the very common punched holes- and also the fabric panels installed to allow stretch as well as added comfort (if you define it that way). The minimum allowance for holes is an area the size of the palm of your hand - or the hand of the inspector.
The rule stems from an incident where a bike was burning and the rider suffered burns, leading the rule makers to decide that doing the best possible to keep fluids from getting inside the leathers was to eliminate all but a few of the perforations. You may argue that the perfs are not going to allow in much fluid, you may argue that the burns suffered by the rider in question were not from the ingress of fluid but rather to heat from the fire boiling his sweat, and so on -- but the rule stands. It's not uncommon for a rider to arrive at inspection at Bonneville and be turned away because he didn't pay attention to the "no perfs" rule. Many time the rider takes his leathers to Wendover to have leather patches sewn over the area in question.
There are a few manufacturers making leathers that have no perforations - or the amount that is allowable at the salt. Z Custom is one of them - and I'm pretty sure there are others, too. Other than that -- even road race leathers that are useable in world superbike racing - aren't going to pass inspection if they've got perforations. Sorry -- but the rule is the rule.
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No problem, my leathers do not have an aero hump on the back and was planning on a new set for Bonneville anyway. My present set if from Z so I am familiar with the drill, I will be ordering a new set shortly. Thanks for the input
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When you call Z -- tell Adolph that the leathers are for Bonneville and that's why you want the "no perfs" situation. He's built leathers for us and others and knows the routine.
Speaking of Z -- when you call you might consider asking for the landracing.com discount. They've been advertising on the site for quite a while - and offer a 10% discount to folks that mention their ad and the site when ordering a full suit.
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Thanks for the tip, much appreciated
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Arrrrgh. I just got leathers...road race type with hump ....and...perforations. :-(
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The aero hump puts you partial streamlining. Perfs can be sealed with silicone. Tom Evans told me to do it on a set of leathers I had. Passed El Mirage and Bonneville.
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I was pretty sure my leathers were not going to pass muster but I will post here just to clarify.
My track day leathers are two piece with a full circ zipper. No small hole perforations but they do have stretch panels in the normal areas for off the shelf leathers i.e. crotch, under arm, ect. That makes them a no go for LSR if I am not mistaken right?
As a side question what about zippered vents. This particular suit had a couple small slits that could be opened up via zippers to get some venting. Legal if closed and maybe silicone sealed shut?
As a final side note, leather even without perforation does not stop liquid. On more than one occasion I have had rain driven straight through the solid chest and shoulder panels when I got caught out with no rain gear. Leather dye bleeds though to a white t-shirt even when the leathers are several years old. I am sure no perfs would help keep the bad stuff off longer than a fully perfed suit however. I wonder if a nomex underwear option like a single layer car suit wearer would have to use in many sanctioning bodies was considered at any point?
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I wonder if a nomex underwear option like a single layer car suit wearer would have to use in many sanctioning bodies was considered at any point?
i wonder if air bags were considered at any point?
franey
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I wonder if a nomex underwear option like a single layer car suit wearer would have to use in many sanctioning bodies was considered at any point?
i wonder if air bags were considered at any point?
franey
I am sure I get the sarcasm of your post but is a comment/question regarding fire/fuel protection really that far off in a topic related to keeping the skin of a rider intact. So a question regarding using modern tech based fibers along side traditional abrasion resistant materials is not worth serious consideration to you? Only worth of a sarcastic comment?
The motorcycle safety industry is in fact looking seriously at airbags by the way, and making some interesting headway on it.
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Just an FYI,
Bubs does not have the same rules for leathers as SCTA does so if getting a new set of leathers is preventing you from racing at Bonneville consider Bubs as you can have perforations and stretch panels at Bubs.
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Ah, don't worry about the "sarcasm". I expect you were given that response out of the frustration that many in the land speed racing world have found when trying to understand the SCTA leathers rules. It's been discussed here -- and lots of other places - 'til we're blue in the face -- and there's still nothing but "all cow" in the rules. Don't take it as a personal shot -- but rather as "Wow, this must be a sore subject."
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I wonder if a nomex underwear option like a single layer car suit wearer would have to use in many sanctioning bodies was considered at any point?
i wonder if air bags were considered at any point?
franey
won't liquids soak through nomex undergarments faster than leathers?
there are issues w/ an on bike fire that will turn a rider's sweat to steam.
safety is paramount. imo scta rules on rider wear (including all cow leathers )
are at the pinnacle of safety.
my sarcasm and mc rider nomex underwear can go in the round file
along w/ parachutes for non streamliner two wheelers.
franey
wonder how many bike riders would need new leathers after
trying to stuff any kind of extra under garments into their current ones?
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You've got a point about the leathers getting a bit snug with undergarments -- but it isn't necessarily undoable. Many riders in LSR wear some sort of cool shirt/pants -- and they're usually slinky silk-like shirts/shorts with basically no thickness. They help absorb sweat, I assume, and also allow better moving around in the stiffer leather.
Nancy and I wear pretty bulky outfits under the leathers, but we took the undies into account when having the leathers made for us. We wear long sleeve and long pants 100% Kevlar clothes. Surprisingly, even though they're quite thick -- they're coarse weave and surprisingly cool. They wick the sweat away and provide quite a cool feeling.
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[/quote]
safety is paramount. imo scta rules on rider wear (including all cow leathers )
are at the pinnacle of safety.
franey
[/quote]
lta, ecta and bub also have safety as their #1 priority.
i'm sure the other orgs. i am not so familiar with
are on top of safety too.
franey
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I recently "won" a set of leathers on EBay.
I was hoping they would be SCTA legal.
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I may have a perforation issue behind the knee.
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I sent them to the local boot shop and told them that the area of perforations could be no larger than the palm of a hand.
This is what I got back. :-D
Don
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Nice coloring.. :cheers:
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Vanson makes Bville compliant leathers, but they aint cheap. Tell them they are for Bville
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Barnacle Bill makes affordable all leather leathers.
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NJK also does leathers for around a thousand bucks.
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Check out some of the flat track racing websites. I got a clean set of Bonneville legal leathers for $140 from the classifieds section of www.vft.org. Just can't be too picky about the colors..
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I know that money shouldn't be the main deciding factor in buying SCTA legal leathers, but sometimes that is the reality. I want a set of Vansons really bad, but can't afford them.
I bought a set of 2 piece cheap leathers off Ebay. The cheap Import ones are actually mostly solid leather with very little in the way of stretch pieces. I think I paid $250 buy it now. Then I took them to a local person and for $100, she took them a part and replaced all the perf areas with new leather for another $100. I have seen several other people with the same style suit out there who must have done the same.
I hope I never go down in these because they are kind of thin. I have other Vanson stuff and it is awesome, but I just can't swing $1200 or more for a custom suit.
Again, I hate to say this is the way to go, but it is possible to get a set of SCTA leathers for under $500.
Jeff
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I hope I never go down in these because they are kind of thin.
some organizations require minimum thickness in the leather.
franey
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Check out some of the flat track racing websites. I got a clean set of Bonneville legal leathers for $140 from the classifieds section of www.vft.org. Just can't be too picky about the colors..
As they say, 140 dollar leathers for a 140 dollar body.... :roll:
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My Vanson's cost 400$, 33 years ago. :-D They held up very well,on my 210+ get off last year.
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John
I agree with you and will always go for the best protection I can afford. However the original Hurt Report [on street incidents] back in the day did come up with data to contradict the old "$10 dollar helmet for a $10 dollar head"........ The big difference was between helmet/no helmet, not much between different price helmets. Don't remember what they came up with regarding clothing.
Fred
I envy you. Not that I want to test them but sure would like to be able to get into my Bates stuff from 40 years ago :-D
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I agree with you and will always go for the best protection I can afford. However the original Hurt Report [on street incidents] back in the day did come up with data to contradict the old "$10 dollar helmet for a $10 dollar head"........ The big difference was between helmet/no helmet, not much between different price helmets. Don't remember what they came up with regarding clothing.
Helmets are all tested to the same standards, and price differences often only gets you differences in terms of venting and weight, and perhaps quality in other areas not tested.
I would not want thin cheap leathers.