Landracing Forum
Bonneville Salt Flats Discussion => Build Diaries => Topic started by: peterdallan on November 18, 2010, 03:06:58 PM
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Hi,
I'm Peter, introduced myself back in early September, hoping to bring my bike to Bonneville in August 2012 with OZ and the rest of the crew from the UK.
I come from Epsom in Surrey, UK, and the town is famous for Epsom Salts (MgS04-7H2O), hence the very fitting name of my project, The Epsom Salt.
The bike is being built by renowned Triumph tuner Dick (The Baron) Smith of Baron Speed Shop. Dick also works at Ace Classics restoring and rebuilding classic Triumphs.
The bike is based off a Triumph 1960 6T, and will remain 650cc. Below are a couple of shots so far, early days but now the frame is finished we can begin work on the rolling chassis. The motor will be built after the rolling chassis is done, however we have so far sourced crankcases, cylinder head, and barrels. A Joe Hunt magneto will be used.
Feel free to ask any questions.
regards
Peter
www.theepsomsalt.blogspot.com
www.baronspeedshop.com
www.aceclassics.co.uk
www.sump-publishing.co.uk/dick%20smith.htm
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Peter
Fell free to post lots of pictures and theory
G
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Yep, looks very busy on the European Salt scene!!!
Patrick
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Cool you still have a bit to do then fella, mind you I have now been waiting 9 weeks for the cylinder head to come back of mine and if everything I need to do takes that kinda time you will be finished before me!
another beer oops I mean meeting towards the end of january I reckon.
Keep up the good work.
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I think it will come along quite quickly now, relatively speaking of course. The plan is to have as much time testing it as building it. Even though it was one of the builds that inspired me, I don't want to finish the bike the day it is being crated like Lars!!!
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G'day Pete
Just found your post and joined this forum today (see introduction page).
I've also just started building a 650 Triumph racer, but 1950 based, to run in M/VG class at Lake Gairdner in 2012.
Cheers Mossy
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Sorry for the radio silence, but back on track.
Work started on the engine, milled out the cases to accept the new cams, and sourced a great crank on it's original grind.
Bronze cam bushes will be replaced with needle bearings.
(http://tapatalk.com/mu/52142dad-59bb-542e.jpg)
(http://tapatalk.com/mu/52142dad-59d3-e04a.jpg)
Peter
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Scrub that crank, we have scored an amazing crank, unused single piece ex Triumph factory, believed cast for John Hobbs, without the sludge trap for increased strength. Boy it feels solid!
(http://tapatalk.com/mu/52142dad-85fa-5434.jpg)
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If you don't have a sludge trap and are using the stock oil pump.....you will starve the rod bearings for oil
...the stock pump is is really bad....it fills up the sludge trap, and the rotation of the crank lubes the rod bearing by centrifical force........get a after market gear type pump the drives off the ex. cam ......
Been there done that.......(we made our own crank without a sludge trap)........................................
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Hi Bak,
Thanks for that, all under control. Dick, my engine builder has been building racing pre-unit Triumphs for 30 years and promises me he has it under control! I know he plans to use a Morgo pump instead of the stock unit. I'll try to add more details as soon as I can.
Peter
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Hi Peter
Wow! that raw forgings gonna take some extensive machining. Who's lined up to take care of that?
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Hi Briz,
Jealous of your progress. I'll ask Dick who he is using but he says it's not as bad as it looks, apparently ;-).
Just sourced some Ceriani forks, already a Triumph fit.
Peter
(http://tapatalk.com/mu/52848b11-71ca-f873.jpg)
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When we made our own crank we made it with a heavy flywheel......get it spinning and drop the clutch...(we drag raced the bike)....worked great.. set records at the time....a heavy crank and flywheel wheel might also work in LSR.......Good luck on your project.......................................................
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Thanks Bak,
Exactly our thoughts, going for the heavy flywheel, plan to sprint it when not on the salt. Will try to keep things updated a bit more
Peter
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Big thanks to Amal for becoming a sponsor of our project, these turned up in the post, cheers guys!
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Sorry for the long delay between posts, the shop has been super busy, but back on track for BUB.
Because we are using a swinging arm box instead of a rigid box we had to move the mounts that are fitted to the pre-unit frame and make some new ones. As per the swinging arm mounts on pre-units, Dick turned the mounts on the lathe and clamped the gearbox shell to the engine mounts. Measured several times, and after steadily increasing the drill size, I guess about 5 times, we finally drilled the 3/4" hole for the new mounts. With the box clamped in place Dick tacked them up and we then removed the box and replaced it with a 7/16th rod which was turned to size and threaded at each end. Once in place the welds were finished, and the fit is perfect.
Dick is fitting a 5 speed cluster into the box for added flexibility on the salt. New engine plates will be made on Monday, the main frame fab is finished and engine and gearbox build can begin in earnest.
More very soon I hope
Peter
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On closer inspection the frame was not straight, and trying to straighten it meant everything else went out.
Fortunately we had another frame in stock, a duplex pre-unit.
Oil tank made by Dick from Barons Speed Shop with nice scallops for the GP carbs, and all tabs and mounts done. Started with card cut to shape.
2 rubber mounted at the top, and a double mount underneath.
And how it stands right now.
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Good choice to go to the 2nd frame.........the first one looked as if it would fold under its own weight! If your plan is to run on the salt, remember that the air is thin and air-speed in the time-trap will tend to SUCK air from your stacks.
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Can you expand a bit on your statement about the air being sucked out? Is this something that affects all carburettor bikes on the salt or are you saying our design around the carbs might be suspect?
thanks for the interest
cheers
Peter
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Some good progress, in pictures
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more, catch tank fab, tank mounts
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more, carb and float chamber mount made, fork stop made and tacked on, forks cut to size, junior speedway hub and akront rim at hagon's being laced up, back this week
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G'day Pete
looking very good. I got my bike running in time for Speedweek in March only to have it postponed due to wet weather. Re-programmed for the end of May, only to be cancelled again due to soft salt :-(
Have had a couple of runs at Tailem Bend test track which was useful as it showed up some faults that weren't obvious when sitting on the bike in the shed.
Cheers Mossy
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Should have some more shots to post in the next few days. As you say a bit of testing before she goes will work wonders in ironing out any problems, rather do that here than on the salt if possible.
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Just found some photos I had not yet posted.
Frame fab finished and powdercoated.
(http://img.tapatalk.com/568df3e7-7abe-8c61.jpg)
(http://img.tapatalk.com/568df3e7-7ace-843e.jpg)
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Seat base made
(http://img.tapatalk.com/568df3e7-7b6f-4436.jpg)
(http://img.tapatalk.com/568df3e7-7b7f-7de1.jpg)
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Sorry for the poor updating of this project, we were originally going to go last year, but other things got in the way.
BUB this year is booked, so we have until the 8th August to get the bike finished and tested.
No real order to these pics, classes are A-PF 650 and APS-PF 650
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/07/23/ja6ase3u.jpg)
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/07/23/y6yrene4.jpg)
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/07/23/rejyqybu.jpg)
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/07/23/abutedyr.jpg)
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/07/23/epeha2y7.jpg)
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(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/07/23/4yhuhy4u.jpg)
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/07/23/8e7edabu.jpg)
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/07/23/my9u3a8e.jpg)
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Catch tank
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/07/23/e6edynaq.jpg)
Reverse megas just fabbed
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/07/23/e4eta3a7.jpg)
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Your at about the same stage as my new T20 motor build...........but you have a lot farther to travel :lol: :lol: :lol:
Very nice looking build :-) :-)
I posted a year or more ago about the intake air..............It makes some kind of sense to me that an airbox (or filter) would help to stabilize the available air and keep salt out of the motor.
See you in 4-weeks :cheers:
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Indeed. I was going to pm you to make sure we hooked up at the event, I've been following your build throughout.
We're staying at the Rainbow, getting there on the 23rd
I'll pm you my contact details
Peter
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Even though from the outside the step down on the inlets looks brutal, they are taper bored inside and smooth as a royal babies bottom!
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Peter..........Looking forward to the meet-up.............We arrive very late on the 23rd or early on the 24th and go directly to the 'boat landing' to check in and get a pit space. I drive a big white van and pull a vintage enclosed trailer. It would be nice to have the British push-rods together in the pits :cheers:
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We are going to try and setup on the 23rd afternoon with the Brough Superior team so if we manage to do that I'll let you know where we are, but we will be flying a Union Jack ;-)
Tonight riveted the seat pan to the frame, fitted the Joe Hunt mag and fitted the steering damper.
Peter
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/07/24/uqu3a6uz.jpg)
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/07/24/geje6umu.jpg)
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/07/24/abetu4ej.jpg)
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It would be nice to have the British push-rods together in the pits :cheers:
I'll second that! I'll be driving a white Honda Ridgeline towing a white trailer (how indistinct is that!) At least the bike is yellow.
Tom
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Tom,
We've been following your build too, fantastic, it really is. Look forward to meeting you all there.
Peter
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Even though from the outside the step down on the inlets looks brutal, they are taper bored inside and smooth as a royal babies bottom!
And you have a new royal babies bottom to compare it with! Maybe you'll have to rename your baby - - if Kate and Willie ever decide on a new name.
Tom
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First start up on petrol, second, on the link below, with Methanol. Sounds like no other Triumph I've ridden, excited now. Test ride on Monday for setup and fettling, shippers come on Thursday.
Peter
http://youtu.be/7h69H5Esggo
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VERY Impressive.................Not much travel in the front..............I would try to get the bars bent downward to get your hands out of the air and maybe allow you to get a lower "tuck"..............Great looking bike 8-)
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We concluded a successful test yesterday at Avon's test facility.
Bike ran very well, straight methanol, only a couple of bits and pieces to sort out before the bike goes (8th August).
We have run with the open pipes but made reverse megaphones too. So we need to have the alternative footpeg position on the axle plates to allow the megas to fit. We can decide at the salt which method to run, I guess open pipes first.
The bike felt very strong, and sounded crisp throughout. We only ran on the softer plugs, colour suggests we had it spot on for the conditions. We used 780 mains on our one and a half inch Amal GP's
We had a mile and a half runway, and I ran the bike around 12 times. Achieved 7,000rpm in 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th and 6,000rpm in 5th before running out of bottle with just the one drum brake to stop. Top speed of around 120mph suggests 140mph at 7,000 rpm and 150 at 7,500 rpm (theoretical). Certainly 7,500 rpm was achievable in the lower gears. Even though this is a 4 speed pre-unit box, it has been converted by Dick Smith to take the unit 5 speed cluster, very welcome.
Before anyone says anything, yes this was at Sea level, so I know it is going to be very very different on the Salt, but that is what the fun is all about.
As tests go I couldn't be happier tbh, and cannot wait to meet those of you going to BUB.
Peter
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From my run at Loring, Maine (around 500 feet above sea level) I find it necessary to jet down one size, from 155 to 152.5 in a Mikuni 42mm flatslide on gas, for example, to run at the Salt Flats. I don't know if the same will apply to your motor, but you may want to have jets that will lean you out proportionally, 1-1/2 to 2% smaller. I know logic says you should go even leaner, but I did not find that to be the case.
Tom
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My riding position was too cramped last year, our first year on the salt, so we have moved the pegs back 10 inches and I now have a more comfortable and aerodynamic position on the bike. I can move the clipons lower too and take some of the weight on my chest so my shoulders are looser.
Dick, the bike builder, fabricated the parts to do this. Gear side was straightforward, just some thicker and longer rod, brake side a bit more complicated. Dick fabbed a bell crank system that operates the brake as it normally would operate, and it works a treat.
All nuts, bolts and studs replaced and we have our test and shakedown runs booked for Tuesday 20th May. Bike goes to the shippers on the 28th.
Peter
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/05/08/de9u9yda.jpg)
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Peter, it all looks good.
Wish you all the best at the salt. :cheers: :cheers: