Landracing Forum
Bonneville Salt Flats Discussion => SCTA Rule Questions => Topic started by: dw230 on October 22, 2010, 11:48:25 AM
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Take a look at this video and quote.
To quote Danny Thompsen,
"I doubt I would have survived the crash without injury if I had not used the Hans device"
http://www.kjprod.com/salt/
Select the 4% play and see where the head ends up.
JL222, do you really want your son or yourself to go thru this at the 280+ speeds your car is capable of?
DW
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Glad this is posted for all to see. On the slo-mo Video I think his face actually hits the steering wheel. Alot of belt stretch but the hans worked perfectly.
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That tells it all, being restrained and still having that much movement. Belts do stretch. I remember the first time Bob Higbee pulled my shoulder harness down and smiled, said he wanted me to be safe. A lot has changed and it's why new rules are written and / or upgraded. This video should be shown to every racer.
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If you think thats bad how about a video of a bike rider crash.
Don't know how I survived those years of districk 37 desert hare and hounds :evil:
Danny had no problem getting out, but he was opening the door before it stopped [ worried about fire maybe]
JL222
Dan don't short us on our speed thats 280 mph in the quarter 294 in the 1st mile and 7000 rpm = 318 and it blew before the end of the 3 mile :-)
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WOW!!
Painful to watch...glad he is OK..
J
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" Danny had no problem getting out, but he was opening the door before it stopped [ worried about fire maybe]"
John,
Do you think there may be some correlation between the use of the Hans and his ability to get out of the car?
I tried not to short the capability of your car, I did write 280+ (plus).
DW
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The correlation is a Hans and getting out of my car in case of fire [ going on 20lb diet if rule passes] :-D
I haven't seen Danny's car but it doesn't seem to have an x brace like in our Camaro
My firesuit is rubbing on roll bar when I get out due to lack of room between X brace and roll bar + we have a funny car cage which gives us less room.
Did all the streamliner drivers at Cook's meet have Hans type devices?
Han's devices were invented to prevent spinal seperation from sudden stop. Danny's crash lasted for a few seconds
I'll go back to video and count. Wow, about 14 sec looks like spinning and flying for 4 0r 5 sec.
I'm not compleatly against Hans devices but in some cars there are problems and the SCTA should recognize that.
I also think that the manufactures are ripping us off, for instance $519 for the roll bar padding vs $363 for a 4 gal dry sump tank.
JL222
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That video will make you re-check your safety stuff. Here is the sled crash test from Schroth Racing.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xCaAuI_riwY&feature=related
And one on belt adjusters and cam locks
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FWkdXEftm6M&feature=player_embedded
And the best guide on mounting I have found
http://www.schrothracing.com/sdocs/2009_Competition_Instructions.pdf
Geo
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Did you notice the impact opened and closed his face shield.
Does the belt stretch help cushion the impact?
Would a funny car style cage help?
It gave me shivers.
Don
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Is there a video from outside of the car??? My rep at Hans is asking???
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I think the 14% version give you a more real time feeling. One major concern I now have is the distance required between the top of the helmet and the bottom of the cage when one runs a dragster type cage like all roadsters do. If the belts stretch that much with Danny who is not a heavy person, what happens to the belts when someone weighs 250 pounds. Will broken necks or spinal injurys be more common?
I could not find in the rule book any minimum distance measurement from top of helmet to bottom of roll cage. Or did I miss it? If there is not a distance minimum for over helmet, this is something we need to address, as the cars are not going any slower, and people keep reminding us about how fast their cars are going.
Tom G.
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When we have to do it we will. I just wonder how all of the NASCAR guys survided so many violent crashes over the years? Yes I know there have been a few unfortunate lives lost. Does anyone remember the crash where the car rolled about ten or so times and even did a cart wheel. I'm thinking it was Rusty Wallace but not sure. I was suprised he survived that one. :cheers:
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" Did all the streamliner drivers at Cook's meet have Hans type devices?"
Yes, were you there to answer otherwise?
DW
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" Did all the streamliner drivers at Cook's meet have Hans type devices?"
Yes, were you there to answer otherwise?
DW
Dan I think you know the answer to that question, I think his question was out of curiousity not sarcasticly(this time anyway). :mrgreen: Plus he knew you were there, geez Dan. :-P
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A question that didn't need to be asked Troy.
DW
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" Did all the streamliner drivers at Cook's meet have Hans type devices?"
Yes, were you there to answer otherwise?
DW
NO Thats why I asked.
What do you expect 100% approval? Looks like theres about 99.9%
JL222
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A question that didn't need to be asked Troy.
DW
I didn't know the answer. I also didn't think to ask it. There are a few liners out there that are having problems finding a Hans that will work for them. Why was that question so offensive to ask? :cheers:
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It was a fair question to ask. Amir wears a Hans device in the Spectre Streamliner. They actually sent him several at different angles to try on and pick the one that worked in the Infidel. The Hans device and ISP foam are critical with a close proximity cage in a Streamliner.
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Dan... relax I believe the Hans device's are a good thing just not for every car and I will try one EVEN if its not mandatory. Don't forget since I brought up the trapping thing [ my rule change] Hans devices have been modified
from the high back style but will still be hard to get out of our camaro.
JL222 :cheers:
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After watching it for a few times I found it intersting that Danny did a lot of things while it was happening. For one he held on tight to the wheel and looked to prepare for what was going to happen. One one hit appeared to be hard and the speed scrubbed off very fast after that. He, like others said, prepared to get out before it stopped.
From the time he released the net and stood on the ground was just over 20 seconds. I think that was excellent especially because all of his restraints didn't just fall off as he tried to first get out. He had to do a little work to release the arm restraint and that is typical when I did bail outs along with shoulder belts.
He may have been able to get out faster without a head restraint because of the distance he needed to move forward. He also could have pulled the 2 helmet side releases also but he showed he could get out quickly in a emergency with it still attached.
I also noticed that before he started to release himself he slapped at all the switches; I would assume turning everything off. I have no idea how the car work but that's PREPARATION. My only criticism and I will spend time with my son and my own brain is switches then steering wheel. I also appeared he never worried about a parachute.
Danny knew what to do and dit it proving his ability to act properly in an emergecy situation.................... :cheers: JD
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I suspect I would try chute before I did the 2 full turns of the wheel... If you want a rule, parachute releases should be located where they can be actuated without removing the hands from the wheel... kind of like the motorcycle shutoff rule. Anybody know if that little square is the chute release on the wheel? did he use it
Yep, lots of movement during the crash, I would think some of that is designed into the belts to absorb a little of the shock.
Tight belts are a must. He had a little issue getting out, but made it in pretty good time.
I agree all racers should watch this one
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I agree that this video is a must see. From my count it looks like from the time he reached for the window net to the time he was completely out of the car it was right at 27 seconds. Not a bad exit time considering the Hans and that he did not release the Hans straps.
What I also noticed was that he seemed to sit very close to the wheel so that does seem to compound the exit time with wearing all the safety gear attached and going up then back to exit. This is not a criticism, just an observation,, any crash you exit from and walk away from on your own, means many more things went right than wrong. My preference is to sit as far back as I can from the wheel, giving me more distance to exit and also my body parts further away from anything I could hit like the wheel or the dash etc.. my preference is also dictated by my size as I need the extra room to get out.
I also noticed his hips and shoulders moved around alot as well. Just my observation and opinion, but a full containment seat would/should have limited the lateral movement of the hips, torso, shoulders and head.. but who knows if that is better as he seemed quite OK in the end?
I for one will TRIPPLE CHECK the tightness of my belts before any run down any course (even a 125mph shakedown pass)
I am sorry he crashed, but very glad he was OK and that the video was posted for us all to LEARN from.
Charles
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Take a look at this video and quote.
To quote Danny Thompsen,
"I doubt I would have survived the crash without injury if I had not used the Hans device"
http://www.kjprod.com/salt/
Select the 4% play and see where the head ends up.
JL222, do you really want your son or yourself to go thru this at the 280+ speeds your car is capable of?
DW
I don't think we would move around as much as Danny as our seat belt tops are attached below the shoulders
as SCTA rules require, unlike Danny's which are mounted above his shoulders.
Check video as he exits car to see attachment point.
JL222
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So far in the five years of Mike Cook's Shootout meets he has required that all the cars pass SCTA-BNI tech. Motorcycles are a different subject.
It is true that some people may have to modify their cars for the addition of a hnr system. Jim Miller stopped working on his car for almost two years because he thought he would have to cut the cage off. I finally made him put it on a trailer and we went to D J Safety. Within 20 minutes he had a new Defender, set at the 30 deg. angle and a new helmet on order, his old one would be out dated. He had to make a 2" x 4" notch in his seat back and all works just fine.
When will Jim have this car on the track? Maybe we need a poll - lol
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This Video is a must see all right especially for inspectors on seat belt mounting and anyone
voting that's on the rules committee, pay attention to how close the Hans device comes to hooking the roll bar.
I made the comment that Danny had no trouble getting out.
But [upon further review] no wonder, he must be a smaller person, which explains the forward seating and the
seatbelt openings in the seat being above his shoulders. I had Linda sit in the Camaro [Kirkey seat] and the seatbelt openings were below her shoulders and she is 5'2''.
The POINT is add 6-8'' to Danny's height and one can see there would be a problem with A Hans device hanging
up.
The builders of Danny's roll cage did an excellent job on extra bracing but they dropped the ball on the seat belt
mounting, if the belts had been mounted were they should have been and closer the belts wouldn't have stretched so far.
JL222
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Did you send this observation to the Chief Car Tech and the Chief car inspector?
DW