Landracing Forum
Bonneville Salt Flats Discussion => SCTA Rule Questions => Topic started by: biglady112 on October 19, 2010, 07:45:14 PM
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I am coming close to finishing the fab work on my colt. I am trying to streamline the chassis the best I can minus a belly pan for its first event. So far it looks like my car it fitting in the Competition Coupe class. But my only concern from what I have been told, is it may push me into the streamliner class if I cover all four wheel wells. Any ideas or confirmation here?
Here is what the car started as and where we are close to finishing it as.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v739/biglady112/2007-06-26066.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v739/biglady112/MaryKayI600x435.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v739/biglady112/MaryKayII600x437.jpg)
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I'm on my cell phone carpooling home so I apologize in adavance for any mistakes. A production car can never run as a special construction car. Read through the spec construction rules and I think it will say something to the effect of no production body panels allowed.
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Nathan is correct. No production based cars in special construction.
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comp coupes, don't know about legality
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Those both have the rear wheels exposed. I want all four covered.
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...then you will need to build a new car...
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Now that I think about it, streamlining in CC is only allowed from the cowl forward. Full length skirts are allowed but I don't think rear wheel covers would be legal. That would be streamlining aft of the cowl.
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Now that I think about it, streamlining in CC is only allowed from the cowl forward. Full length skirts are allowed but I don't think rear wheel covers would be legal. That would be streamlining aft of the cowl.
What about the sail panel? Can they be modified or laid forward for better aero?
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See that is what I thought. It vaguely says if they are all covered I have to move to streamliner. While I don't care, some folks helping my with the car want me to try for a record. And the CC record I have a shot at is 230 and change. I have no problem running time only, but maybe we could set it up, which we would anyway, to remove the rear wheel covers if they have an issue at tech. I just want to go fast, but this is the wrong car to try to make a liner from. That and it puts the record over 300, and that doesn't seem feasbile with my car.
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Competition coops are dangerous and sometimes KILL people!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :cry:
Please build something else :?
AKK
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Are you paying for it?
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I think Akk is trying to be polite and save you from some real head aches. Your car looks like it could go 200 without having a lot aero or handling problems. Short wheelbase cars over 220, plus the aero package of your car is not a good combination for high speeds. Good Luck your on your decision, be safe and have fun. :cheers:
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You can't move to streamliner . . .
"Nathan is correct. No production based cars in special construction."
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lets start over, what engine size and whats is the wheel base.
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Kilger,
Look up his build diary.
DW
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thanks Dan but cant seem to find one, but thats ok he will make it right Iam sure.
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4 barrel Mike is good at finding lost threads. May be he can help.
DW
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For comp coupe "chopped top" is the only legal body modification from the cowl back. No rear wheel covers. The design you have would run for time only. If you want to run a competative CC over 2, I would suggest putting the front wheels further out for longer wheel base, running a full belly pan, chopping the top, and setting the engine back. Good luck
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Are you paying for it?
The last 2 racers lost in Competition were in Comp Coupes, John Beckett, and Barry Bryant, not to mention Earl Wooden's Wild Ride a few yeas ago.
All were/are very experienced racers and car builders, tread cautiously.
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If you want to run a competative CC over 2, I would suggest putting the front wheels further out for longer wheel base, running a full belly pan, chopping the top, and setting the engine back. Good luck
Equally good suggestions but I think they're beyond the scope of this car. The car is FWD and is already 95% or so complete. I don't think there are any plans for a stretched wheelbase or body or a top chop or converting to RWD with longitudinal engine placement. He wants to do what he wants to do with what he has and he's obviously more than welcome to.
My advice is to do everything you can within the limits of the rules if you want to set a legit record. If you want to experiment with rear wheel covers, go ahead but know in advance that it won't be legal.
I really admire what you're doing and the amount of work you've put into this. It is traditional in the sense of what you're doing (building a comp coupe) but untraditional in your execution (ugly 80's hatchback, 4G63, crazy aero package, etc.)
On a side note, I don't think there's much of a correlation between a particular body class and the latest incidents/injuries/deaths. This is racing and shit happens regardless of the builder, driver, or body class.
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I built this car with the intentions of running time only. I did not intend to build a competition coupe. But my car just happens to fit in this class. However, the sutton family and mountain states racing would like to see this car chase down at least one class record.
I am mearly just working with a car that I already had. Much like a lot of other door slammers do out there. I just want to go fast and this little car does.
Obviously it is not ideal for much, but again, it's what I had. If it came to doing all the rediculous work, I would stuff a little 4G63 2.0L into a streamliner and do it the right way. But for now I need to break my cherry and get some experience under my belt. It is looking like the car will make it to utah for 2011. Once we get past this body work and paint, it is more or less done. Just tires and a racepak and we can see what the little car is made of.
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Oh, and thanks nathan, I appreciate the support. It was nice meeting you while you teched nick' car at speed week.
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4 barrel Mike is good at finding lost threads. May be he can help.
DW
Build thread on the 2nd page of threads in that section: http://www.landracing.com/forum/index.php/topic,4777.15.html (http://www.landracing.com/forum/index.php/topic,4777.15.html) last updated 27 Sept.
Mike
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I believe SCTA will tech a car to the class it nearest resemble and hold you accountable for the safety items required for that class and speed. And/or they will put a speed limit on you.
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Thanks Mike.
Don't forget to add Jim Kirk to the recent CC crash list. Bob Johnson's CTS looked more CC than Mod Sports and it also crashed.
DW
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At 200 you get about 1 psi pressure......lets see...60 inches wide x 120 inches long = 7200 pounds lift
If this short wheel base car hits a wet spot it needs to weigh 9000 pounds to stay on the ground...if the wing falls off first???
Think about it.....build something else.... or..... put a small motor in it and have some fun!!!!!
Akk
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Back off akk. The car is front wheel drive. And currently uses a 1.6L motor. But, it is capable of well over 200mph.
Again, are you paying for it? If not, the build will move forward as planned.
The car is legal to run over 200mph. It has a 45ft parachute, two 10lb fire systems rediculous roll cage and all the goodies it needs to be safe.
I saw Jim Kirk's car at speed week. You guys are comparing apples to oranges here.
We will streamline the car, but leave the option of removing the rear wheel covers if that is what I am asked to do. I just needed to see which direction I had to go.
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Doesn't make sense, you want a record yet you build it so it won't fit in. Sounds like you spinning your tires for no good reason. :cheers:
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If you want to race at the salt you need to follow the rules in the SCTA-BNI rulebook. I suggest you take a look again at the highlighted in red sentences:
5.A SPECIAL CONSTRUCTION CATEGORY
This category is the pinnacle of the straightaway racer’s art. It contains three main groups. In the automobile group are the unlimited Streamliners and open-wheeled Lakesters with a 4+ wheel configuration and in the motorcycle group are the Streamliner and Streamliner Sidecar classes. These classes allow both blown and un-blown, gas or fuel engines. These are all-out straightaway vehicles with non-stock engine blocks allowed, (with the exception of specific Vintage engine classes). Innovation is encouraged, within the rules. Modified production bodies are forbidden. Four-wheel drive is allowed in the automotive group only.
It is strongly recommended that all new vehicles be submitted for a pre-event inspection by appointment with the Technical Committee. If not practical because of distance, photographs and drawings may be submitted to the Technical Committee Chairman, see Section 16.
5.D.1 Competition Coupe & Sedan - /BFCC, /FCC, /BGCC, /GCC
This class encompasses production coupe or sedan bodies unaltered in width or contour. Streamlining ahead of and including the cowl, channeling, belly pan and skirts and spoilers, as defined in Section 4.CC. is permitted. One of the following modifications SHALL be done to be considered in this class:
1. Top shall be chopped.
2. The vehicle shall have a full belly pan.
3. The body from the cowl forward shall be
lengthened a minimum of 12 in.
4. The engine shall be set back a minimum of 25%
of the wheelbase. The engine setback
cannot exceed 50% of the wheelbase.
Other than top chopping, no modification to the body is allowed. Minimum vertical windshield height is 5 in. The front and rear chop shall be equal. Window openings may be covered by flat plates on the outside of the opening or left open. Driver shall sit COMPLETELY ahead of the rear axle, inside the body and behind the engine, except in rear-engine cars using the original engine LOCATION. Driver exit hatches in the roof are recommended but shall not change the contour of the body. Cars in this class are considered in the Modified category and shall comply with the general rules of the category.
I would think that MSA guys would tell you to follow the rules. Just because you build it doesn't mean you can run for class records.
DW
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. . . or run at all.
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I noticed that in my post above this sentence didn't come out in red:
"Other than top chopping, no modification to the body is allowed."
An important thing to look at when classing a CC.
DW
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I never said I would not consider running without the rear wheels covered. That is how I want my car, but if all it takes is removing two panels, than we might as well try.
And by ready my 2006, 2009 and 2010 rule books they all look to me like I fit in competition coupr just fine. There was just no clarification on the rear tires and I was going by hearsay on the streamlining deal. I know my car won't fit in their, I just wanted another angle of approach because I was not that clear to me.
So yea, no tire spinning here.
And Stan, I am quite sure this car will pass tech with flying colors. I have been in contact with the scta every step of the way. Along with guidance from the mountain states group and those that matter when we are at the salt.
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"I built this car with the intentions of running time only."
I was not questioning the integrity of your build. Just making a statement that building for Time Only does not insure that you are accepted to run. The policies are most liberal, but no guarantee. (We tried to enter the Indy 500 with our roadster and were turned down.)
Stan
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If you look at my build thread, you will see my car is more than capable and compliant. My comment was because owning a record is not nor will it ever be important to me. I just want to go fast. But my friends and family want the car to at least have the chabce to compete for one, hence why it is competition coupe compliant.
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BigLady112, just remember, it's SCTA's bat and ball.
FREUD