Landracing Forum
Tech Information => Technical Discussion => Topic started by: Milwaukee Midget on October 17, 2010, 11:16:58 AM
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I've got a few things I need to have made, and I'm looking for a simple, intuitive, and hopefully free CAD software program that will run on Windows. I pulled these up on line, and I am curious if anyone has had experience with any of them.
http://www.freebyte.com/cad/cad.htm#2D3DCADSystems
Or if there is a freeware program that anyone else uses and has had success with, I'd like to hear about it.
Essentially, I need to be able to make blueprints for some machined and fabricated parts. Limited 3D capabilities would be a huge bonus, but not necessary.
Thanks!
Chris
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Go to (www.)solidworks.com/sw/support/downloads.htm (Free CAD Tools tab)
eDrawings is a collaboration tool, you can view eDrawings created and sent by SolidWorks users.
SolidWorks Viewer allows you to look at SolidWorks files directly.
You have to download the new version each year and paid versions allows some mark-up & editing.
DraftSight replaces the former DWGEditor program which are both basically free AutoCAD replacements. They are providing this free because so many of their customers still have 2D needs or are paying AutoCAD subscriptions. Draftsight will ask for your (an) email whenever you save or print. E.g. ABC(@)xyz.com Most of the commercial freebies will have a hook of some kind. :-D
I have heard the Alibre light is ok but have not used it.
Sketchup is not really CAD but you can do some great conceptual stuff with it! I have not tried it in two or three years.
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"simple", "intuitive" and "CAD" are not usually used in the same sentence...
I have used progeSOFT Smart (http://www.progesoft.com/en/smart-2009) - a free CAD program in the Autocad clone mold. Works reasonably well, doesn't seem to require a lot of machine resources.
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MM:
If, indeed, you only have a few items to be built, get out a pencil and paper. However simple and intuitive the various CAD programs may claim to be, the truth is that there is a substantial learning curve involved with any of them which require considerable time and patience before any degree of proficiency is attained. Especially if familiarity with coordinate systems and geometrical descriptions is not already in your tool bag.
If you are willing to put in the time in order to gain the needed skills, and see this as a lead-in for further or more sophisticated endeavors, fine. In that case I would suggest that a better approach is to start with a commercially available and supported program. These would have most of the bugs worked out and have “Help” features, printed documentation, user groups, examples, training exercises, file compatibility and interchange, etc. An amazing amount of capability can be had for $50 - $100, including 3D. You might want to checkout imsidesign.com among others.
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Most of a parts/fabrication drawing is knowing how to dimension and tolerance the part so it is practical to make and fits where it's supposed to go properly. For 2D anything from paper and pencil up can get a good result. What are you trying to draw up?
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Most of a parts/fabrication drawing is knowing how to dimension and tolerance the part so it is practical to make and fits where it's supposed to go properly. For 2D anything from paper and pencil up can get a good result. What are you trying to draw up?
Simple parts, actually. Motor mounts, a slave cylinder shield, a crankshaft. Well, maybe not a crankshaft. I've got a T-square and a table, and I could probably do it on a bar napkin with my wife's eye liner pencil, but I'd prefer being able to do it on the computer.
Thanks for the input.
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Simple parts, actually. Motor mounts, a slave cylinder shield, a crankshaft. Well, maybe not a crankshaft. I've got a T-square and a table, and I could probably do it on a bar napkin with my wife's eye liner pencil, but I'd prefer being able to do it on the computer.
Thanks for the input.
One route you could go is checking with a local junior college and see what CAD training they offer. There are student versions for a number of higher end CAD packages like SolidWorks that are cheap but you have to be a student to buy them. It's sounding more like you want to see the part first.
I understand about swapping out the stock motor mounts. Would that be a heat shield for the slave cylinder?
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A few years back i tried doing some stuff in cad and it whooped my butt (autocad and a few other freeware ones But i can't find there names) and kind of stayed away from it i found out for me that i can accomplish more with my simple projects by cutting it out with a torch and trying it again!! I have had some times tho where i think i should learn it and the best thing i can do is say pick up a book or take a lessons like these www.we-r-here.com/cad/tutorials/index.html (I just scanned through i think its all free) Or sometimes what i like to do is hit the what i like to call youtube college and do a search for how to whatever. best of luck on the cad adventure.
ps wow i look like a spam bot after rereading that, don't take it that way!
Stapels in the cheap software bin is where i found one cad program for $10
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You can get Solidworks student edition which is the full product in its entirety for 105 GBP as long as it is used as a non profit tool you dont actually have to be a student.I have just got it but unless you have a basic knowledge of CAD at least you may be out of your depth.
cheers Oz
http://www.studica.com/SolidWorks/solidworks_student_edition_2010-2011.html
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I wish I had noticed this before, but if you ever need something in CAD, if you can sketch it on piece of paper, I can turn it into a proper three view drawing via autocad or even a NX5 solid model, though my modeling skills are a little iffy since I am still learning NX5 by the seat of my pants.
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Another 3D CAD freebie: http://www.ptc.com/products/creo-elements-direct/modeling-express/
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Most of a parts/fabrication drawing is knowing how to dimension and tolerance the part so it is practical to make and fits where it's supposed to go properly. For 2D anything from paper and pencil up can get a good result. What are you trying to draw up?
Simple parts, actually. Motor mounts, a slave cylinder shield, a crankshaft. Well, maybe not a crankshaft. I've got a T-square and a table, and I could probably do it on a bar napkin with my wife's eye liner pencil, but I'd prefer being able to do it on the computer.
Thanks for the input.
So Chris....You take your wife`s eye liner pencil to the bar with you ??? ( sorry , but you left yourself wide open) :cheers:
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I've used eMachineShop for years. Free and has a good tutorial.
Sam
#6062
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As a machinist, I prefer application information over someones attempt at a 2d freeware drawing. I usually end up having to recreate everything anyway, so you are not really buying yourself anything by doing the drawings yourself. If you have a shop you work with on a regular basis..ask them what they would prefer, or make some outline of what you need for a walk in.
If you just want to learn, don't waste your time with anything but solid modeling. 2D software is useless and dead.
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Another 3D CAD freebie: http://www.ptc.com/products/creo-elements-direct/modeling-express/
This looks good. Thanks for the tip. I was using Sketchup but I would like something closer to a real 3d modeler.
Does the ptc software have what I know as a sketcher? They have this in NX and I think also in Solidworks.
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This looks good. Thanks for the tip. I was using Sketchup but I would like something closer to a real 3d modeler.
Does the ptc software have what I know as a sketcher? They have this in NX and I think also in Solidworks.
If you just want to learn, don't waste your time with anything but solid modeling. 2D software is useless and dead.
Leave flatland forever! Once you transition to 3D you cannot return! You will be assimilated! :cheers:
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This looks good. Thanks for the tip. I was using Sketchup but I would like something closer to a real 3d modeler.
Does the ptc software have what I know as a sketcher? They have this in NX and I think also in Solidworks.
If you just want to learn, don't waste your time with anything but solid modeling. 2D software is useless and dead.
Leave flatland forever! Once you transition to 3D you cannot return! You will be assimilated! :cheers:
Yes, I used to use NX (was UG) but don't have $20k for a licence or whatever it is at this point.
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Links to a bunch of freebies and low-cost CAD here: http://www.evanyares.com/cad-for-the-unemployed/
The guy writes an interesting blog on CAD and other tech issues, too! :-)
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Links to a bunch of freebies and low-cost CAD here: http://www.evanyares.com/cad-for-the-unemployed/
The guy writes an interesting blog on CAD and other tech issues, too! :-)
another excellent link, informs re. various ways to get CAD at no or low cost. Great stuff.
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Another freebie: http://www.plm.automation.siemens.com/en_us/products/solid-edge/free2d/index.shtml
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If you just want to learn, don't waste your time with anything but solid modeling. 2D software is useless and dead.
Leave flatland forever! Once you transition to 3D you cannot return! You will be assimilated! :cheers:
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WOW! I guess you folks have just left me in the wind. I have use 2d software for over 30 years now. The 3d software and models are cool enough, but they just don't do it for me when it comes to efficient design work. For instants, if someone walks in with a part to make and I need to get dimensions for the machinist to make that part. I can usually do that much quicker in 2d and have them up and running the part. Most of the time quicker than it can be verbally described. There's no way I can do that in 3d.
It usually takes me longer to model a 3d part than it takes to machine it. Now I''ll admit at least some of that is my fault, and I do like 3d models, but as far as I'm concerned 2d is a long ways from "dead" when it comes to getting shop work done. To-date, I have never seen a set of shop pressure vessel, or pipe fabrication drawings issued out to the shop in 3d, and probably wont for some time to come. Other industries do, however, issue out 3d models but, I think of it as more for demonstration or marketing purposes, especially for folks that can't read 2d drawings, than to make the parts.
Yes I am squarely in the old school camp here it seems, but that's how I make a living and sometimes even get in some racing, old school of course.
Rouse
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Johnnie, just saying that's where it's going. For simulation work 2D is still used but mostly for preliminary analysis. Ignoring tolerances, I can go from 3D CAD to the 3D printer with no 2D drawings. CAD/CAM can do the same within it's limits - as you well know - some still serious! It's no accident that all the 3D systems have 2D outputs for manufacturing. Twenty-five years ago I was told by a GM VP that everything would be done by the computers in five years. :? All that said, I still use napkin sketches to get real work done! How else am I going to use up all those No. 2 pencils! :cheers: :cheers:
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Woody;
You'd be surprised at the amount of money I have invested in CAD/CAM. The idea was to help with some of the more complicated parts we have to make. I listened to all the "propaganda"as to how the whole work of machining was going to be so simple. Well, I'm still waiting on the "simple parts programing" to happen.
I could've bought that Shelby GT Mustang, and had a lot more fun, for about the same amount of money. The results, so far, we're still programing 99% of our part programs at the machine, from 2d Dwgs.
The time will come that we are more proficient with all this CAD/CAM investment (I hope), but we aint there yet.
The point to all this "High jack" (sorry about that) is, look for the software that fits your needs, no matter what the cost.
I'll get it one of these days.
Rouse
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I've been using the free version of SketchUp....
http://www.sketchup.com/
to design ....
(http://1fatgmc.com/car/misc-pics-1/painted%20wheels-S-1.jpg)
(http://1fatgmc.com/car/misc-pics-1/painted%20wheels-S-3.jpg)
... a small camper trailer that I'm building to also haul the motorcycle and ATV with and like it,
Sumner
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X2 on sketchup. The warehouse is awesome to pull from as well. Once you learn simple building (learn on youtube), grabbing models from the warehouse and scaling/modifying for your application is awesome.
FYI, you can convert sketchup files to autocad files and then run them in flow design. Learning poly count and how to appropriately use flow design is a whole different monster!
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At my place of employment we use DesignCad for all items that can be properly understood in 2D such as many fabrications. It can also send files in AutoCAD format. This is important because this type of file has became somewhat universal. Some fabricators we work with will take our 2D drawing and import it directly into their AutoCAD compatible equipment such as a burn out table. Now they do not have to enter data points manually. We have computers with versions of DesignCad from 14 to 22 and all of them can still send to the newest AutoCAD. I've seen early versions of DesignCad for as little as 7 dollars. I would not recommend AutoCAD even though it in such wide commercial use because of its cost. DesignCad has worked well for me and I also have AutoCAD experience.
As far as the 3D vs 2D debate. Trust the people who have experience in both types of systems and are not easily swayed by the latest developments unless they relate to your application. How many land speed racers want to use a 3D printer to make engine mounts out of plastic resin :-P or even sintered metal? If you want to make a resin crankshaft so you might use it as part of the molding process that may be a good use for 3D. Another use for 3D is if you have a bulkhead with so many penetrations like linkages and wire looms that it is difficult to fit them all in and meet temperature or movement requirements. Rouse is correct. For straight forward fabrications and machined parts 2D is faster and easier to learn. This does not mean your software should not necessarily have 3D capability. You just do not need to use it.
Iguana mentioned progesoft. I looked at their web site and if it is everything they claim it to be it also looks like a good choice.
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I didn't say I didn't have 3d, I did say Woody is a heck of a lot better at it than I am.
Maybe one day I will get more proficient with the 3D software, if I last long enough :-D.
But for what Woody does, there is no equal nor alternative that I know of, Yet. Maybe that's why he so good with it. :cheers:
Rouse
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I said "Rouse is correct. For straight forward fabrications and machined parts 2D is faster and easier to learn. This does not mean your software should not necessarily have 3D capability. You just do not need to use it."
Rouse, sorry I interpreted your posts incorrectly. I will stand by the thought as mine. "For straight forward fabrications and machined parts 2D is faster and easier to learn. This does not mean your software should not necessarily have 3D capability. You just do not need to use it."
In the context of what we are talking about which is learning a design/drafting package for straight forward fabrications, I suggest 2D. This does not stop someone from going further if they later choose.
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You can get Solidworks student edition which is the full product in its entirety for 105 GBP as long as it is used as a non profit tool you dont actually have to be a student.
I purchased the Student version about a month ago. After shopping online it came down to only 2 vendors that offered the $86US promotion. Both were clearly in the education software business and both had decent web sites. About $102US when you add shipping and tax. However, I think the price is now $150US. For the current promotion, SolidWorks requires that you are a legitimate student and the license is only good for 1 year. I had to prove I was enrolled in a class and show a student body card. I had to download a qualification form here:
https://store.solidworks.com/studentstore/default.php?command=Step1
It may be different in other countries.
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Regretfully I have not had much luck down loading the Siemens 2D program, my slow internet connection can get to around 2 gig and then it stops which is another hour wasted!! I did down load the Sketch software that Sum is using and it looks pretty easy so I am going to give it a try on some of my parts for my roadster rebuild and I am going to give the Siemens another try late tonight when my internet link is faster and maybe better.
As a LONG time user of "pencil cad" (over 50 years!) I think I understand why many people prefer the 2D system as it makes drawings similar to what we have always seen and understand but I guess it is time to finally get into at least 2D ability as I have some things I need water jet cut and they like their data in 2D..
Offical OLD F--K!
Rex
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Rex, I think you have to be able to think more to use "pencil cad". Numbers, always the damn numbers :-D