Landracing Forum
Bonneville Salt Flats Discussion => Build Diaries => Topic started by: thefrenchowl on October 09, 2010, 08:26:31 AM
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Hi everybody,
Thought it was about time I started a diary of my build, dspite the fact I still haven't got an engine for it...
Nevertheless, I started work on the cycle parts about a month ago and slowly getting through all the bits that I have or that are required...
I've been in touch with Tom, the SCTA tech man, he's been most helpful so far...
Also been reading about Desparate and Octane builds, they have given me a bit of insight for where I'm trying to go...
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/201010091.jpg)
These cycle parts... The frame was done from my drawings some 20 years ago by a friend who worked at Kooter Brown, David Lindley. It used to house my 1954 KHK engine, then some old Sportsters. I haven't used it for a few years now, just about time it saw some action again!!!
I resurected from the shelves an H-D KR spool front wheel, all period and still with an -60R alloy rim, few stainless steel spacers done on my Myford lathe to fit in the Ceriani front end.
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/201010092.jpg)
The back wheel is from a Metisse kit which is the 1st ever bit I bought when I arrived from France in GB back in 1985, it came with numerous alloy sprokets.
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/201010093.jpg) (http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/201010094.jpg)
The plan is to built a KH engine for it and run a APS/VBF bike, on methanol, I'm just about to order the supercharger once I'm satisfied with my boost calculations!!!
Patrick
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Nice one Patrick,Kooter Browns I aint heard that name in a very long time,I got a 5X16 rim for a chop I built in the very early 80s of Kooters I seem to remember they had a pub bar as a counter!
Tidy frame it should be good!!
Oz
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Very cool project! :cheers:
I know its early, but what are your plans for the fairing? Will you stay with the KR theme and run KR style road race body work?
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Yep, OZ, knew them cause they were in a small shop in Stoke on Trent near a bike machinist that did bits for me, that's where I met Dave, he was as mad with fast Sportsters as I am...
They then moved to Sandbach near where I live but went bust in that late 80s depression...
Patrick
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Hi, Beairsto,
No, my pockets are not deep enough for replica KRTT stuff!!!
But I've also had for years a moded top fairing of a Velo Thruxton, I see one can still get the top and front screens so I'll probably go fot that...
Here it is, about 1992, on my old 59 CH, long gone... The bike fell one day in the garage, broke both screens...
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/velo.jpg)
Also have a replica Daytona KRTT tank, but a tad too big for Bonneville (6 1/2 gallons)!!!
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/67xlch.jpg)
Patrick
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For replacement windscreens of just about any style -- check for Gustafsson Windscreens (I think that's the proper name) on a search engine. The firm is in St. Petersburg, Florida -- will make anything you want.
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The plan is to built a KH engine for it and run a APS/VBF bike, on methanol, I'm just about to order the supercharger once I'm satisfied with my boost calculations!!!
Patrick
Looking gooooood !
Patrick: check your e-mail !
PS: what supercharger do you plan on using ?
.
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Great looker Patrick! Haven't been in Sandbach in 40 years. Last time was to pick up some parts from ERF. Between you and Octane and Desperate there will be a flathead infestation on the salt!! The best of luck with the build.
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Hi, Nortonist 592... You're the man with the laydown sidecar, right?
ERF are long gone, it's all flats now... Foden the same...
I'm looking at a small AMR 500 lobe supercharger... Really wanted a small Rotrex (impeller type with roller planetary drive) but can't find any second hand...
Collected a few bits from my fav machinist...
Methanol tap, has to close automatically if I fall and control from the handlebars... Tall order, drawn a few designs, it got simpler and simpler as it went!!! The basis is a S/S Swagelok 3/8th valve
Result:
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/tap1.jpg)
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/valveb.JPG)
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/valvee.JPG)
Spring return, cable operated from a twin cable throttle mounted on the left hand side clip-on. The cable will pass through it and the lanyard underneath to hold it open. I also plan to put a micro switch on the back of the tap to kill the ignition when the valve closes.
See you all,
Patrick
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Excellent! Patentable, DYT?
I'll bet Pingel, etc. would pay something for the rights.
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:-D Jeff!!!
The valve cost me £60.00, about $90.00... Tried to do the same on way cheaper other valves, but they're just too stiff and would require a huge return spring to overcome the static pressure... Can't see much return on my meager money to go the patent route!!!
I've got a good arrangement with my fav machinist, the alloy bit just costs some of my time to do his electrics when needed, we keep a log!!! But it must be 2 or 3 hours!!! I'll have to finish it and make the bracket for the spring holder, cable and switch, will have to borrow again the TIG welder at work...
Since you've got a page on supercharger on your site, here's a question...
Whatever I've read on supercharging, mostly OHV, very little on SV, guys seems to favor big lobe units so they spin them at engine speed or slightly lower... They then seem to agree that it's not so good on a Vee twin due to not enough pulses per engine rev... I'm planning to run mine way faster than the engine, so more pulses per rev and smaller "plenum" volume... I never ran a supercharger in me life, but got enough methanol experience from my sprinting days... So I'm open to any suggestions!
Patrick
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Laydown sidecar. Thats me. Sorry to hear ERF and Foden are gone. Sandbach is such a nice place.
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In reference to a micro switch on the fuel tap. Motorcycle fuel taps can be leak prone. Also, if any fuel leaks out of the cap or breather it can flow down the tank side and down on the outside of the tap. Possibly, if it can easily be done another way, it might be a good idea put the micro switch somewhere away from the tap. Less chance of spark ignited fire.
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Hmmmn I once met a very 'interesting' :-D Frenchman called Patrick at my good friend Richards Garage in Sandbach......
Smithy Garage..... Behind the Military Arms :cheers:
Graham ......... Now in Aus.....
:wink:
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wobblywalrus: In reference to a micro switch on the fuel tap
It's actually a kill switch for the magneto so should be safe enough... If not, most XL based bikes would be banned since the magneto is underneath the carburettor!!!
Nortonist 592, you pointed me in SCTA's Tom's direction from another forum, t'was most helpful, thanks again!!!
Graham, yes, that's me, small world indeed... Richard's still there and doing allright. He's not racing much these days, but mostly acts as pit crew for his sons' racing karts!!!
Patrick
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Methanol tap, has to close automatically if I fall and control from the handlebars... Tall order, drawn a few designs, it got simpler and simpler as it went!!! The basis is a S/S Swagelok 3/8th valve
Result:
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/tap1.jpg)
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/valveb.JPG)
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/valvee.JPG)
Spring return, cable operated from a twin cable throttle mounted on the left hand side clip-on. The cable will pass through it and the lanyard underneath to hold it open. I also plan to put a micro switch on the back of the tap to kill the ignition when the valve closes.
See you all,
Patrick
Patrick, I don't want to put down your brilliant tap !!!
On the contrary; it's a extraordinarily well made nifty little contraption
BUT
I tried , or rather the guy who helped me in the beginning of my build,
tried to make something similar
(http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb220/octane98extra/fuelhane.jpg)
...with internals based on an existing tap, just like you did
(http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb220/octane98extra/fuelhanecloseup.jpg)
...but it never got to work well.....er....at all
What the rules actually says it that
1)...you need a positive off kill switch to stop a running machine,
operated without removing hands from handlebar
2)...you must have a tether-type / lanyard kill switch
3)...running 'fuel' ; you must have a fuel shut-off
operated without removing hands from handlebar
...so instead of investing in a 60£ tap, do a lot of machining, run cables
and buy, and install, a, twin cable throttle AND a micro-switch
AND buy, and install, a handle-bar mounted switch for the ignition
the whole thing can be solved with a 44.24£
12 volt fuel solenoid-valve from HERE (http://www.autoelectricsupplies.co.uk/product/731)
(http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb220/octane98extra/250101_2_large-1.jpg)
and a switch on the handle-bar that kills engine AND fuel in one go,
like I ended up doing
(http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb220/octane98extra/x6-1.jpg)
( + the lanyard thingy that you're gonna need under all circumstances )
Tech. inspected at both Speed Week and BUB.
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Hi Lars,
Yes, I've got the lanyard at the end, on the throttle. I did not mod the valve at all, just added the alloy bit for the spring and cable> I've tested it before hand in the vice, smooth closing in about 1/2 second. I querried my idea with Tom, he says it should be OK (once examined!!!) I'll query him again to see if lanyard is enough. I also will have another kill switch on the clip-ons just in case...
And no easy solenoid shut off system cause there's no battery on the bike!!!
Patrick
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Graham, yes, that's me, small world indeed... Richard's still there and doing allright. He's not racing much these days, but mostly acts as pit crew for his sons' racing karts!!!
Patrick
Aaah I was right! :-D Don't want to clog up your build thread, but, it's good to know my memory's OK (just!)
I visited Richard last year and stayed a few days, went Karting with the boys too!
Good luck with your build!
Graham
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Hi Lars,
Yes, I've got the lanyard at the end, on the throttle. I did not mod the valve at all, just added the alloy bit for the spring and cable> I've tested it before hand in the vice, smooth closing in about 1/2 second. I querried my idea with Tom, he says it should be OK (once examined!!!) I'll query him again to see if lanyard is enough. I also will have another kill switch on the clip-ons just in case...
And no easy solenoid shut off system cause there's no battery on the bike!!!
Patrick
Ahhh! Got ya' now, Patrick !
Sorry for my inappropriate smarty pants display ,
and again: let me express my admiration for you clever fuel tap-design !!!
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Lars: let me express my admiration for you clever fuel tap-design
Well, thanks, but that end thingy was the 4th and last design... I started with another valve and tryed to morph into it some levers from H-D Keihin carbs, awful!!!
These are close shots of the rear struts, H section and full of holes, in hardened aluminum, don't know what they call it in the States, Duraluminium over here...
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/strut1.jpg)
Patrick
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it's not so good on a Vee twin due to not enough pulses per engine rev... I'm planning to run mine way faster than the engine, so more pulses per rev and smaller "plenum" volume
There are 2 cycles that should not overlap:
1. is the release of trapped volume between the lobes and the case wall, which is never really constant even with high helix (partially because most discharge is from 1 end, not symmetrically); speeding it up has to help.
2. is the V firing order, with a very long period of both intake valves closed, which backs up pressure between the blower exhaust and the engine. It overloads the blower, and may pop off a valve. AFAIK, nothing but a plenum will cure this, but this volume includes every part of the intervening space including the ports, manifold, etc. A L4 or L6 still needs buffer volume since the interval between intake cycles is still large, but it's generally contained in the existing plumbing and doesn't need an add-on.
It's been suggested that a V engine needs at least 2 × displacement for a buffer; I'm not sure this much is really needed.
There's also a big diff between blow-through and draw-through as to plenum design.
A draw-through is wet, which means that any violent cross-sectional expansion will cause fuel drop-out. The entire tract should be slightly downhill the whole way, and the largest X-section as small as possible: 3" OD × 12" long is preferred to 4" × 7" (length will compromise response, but keep the fuel suspended).
A blow-through doesn't have these problems, and can use a short (3"?) but big disc- or torus-shaped OD (6"?) plenum as storage as long as the entry-exits are smooth, large radius transitions.
I suspect (but no proof) that the entry and exit tubes can approach each other inside the plenum to a distance as close as 625% of their area (2" entry is 3.125" away from the 2" exit, etc.) without penalty if the exit's radius is well shaped.
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Hiya Patrick, good to see you on here.
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Just rambling: assuming the AMR500, I'm not sure how the rotor coating or the seals like methanol.
Some excellent pioneer work has been done on using the Keihin CV carbs as blow-through.
Where is the drive from? I'm running a #40 sprocket around the OD of my big twin clutch drum, somewhere in the low 50s, to drive the Eaton M45 at about 3 × clutch speed. This is only 2 × engine speed due to the primary ratio.
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Spring return, cable operated from a twin cable throttle mounted on the left hand side clip-on. The cable will pass through it and the lanyard underneath to hold it open. I also plan to put a micro switch on the back of the tap to kill the ignition when the valve closes.
I would have thought having an extra control that you have your hand on might make things a bit busy, especially if it gets bumpy
There's a guy who runs a Velo in Aus who uses a handlebar mounted choke lever to turn his off. Worked well in Tech, and looked simple.
Very nice tap by the way
G
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Thanks, Jeff,
It'll be a draw through, methanol in the supercharger should cool it enough!!! Carb is a 1"7/8 S&S MGAL that I moded years ago for methanol, so already set up jet wise, albeit for sea level. It's got 2 main jets, one fixed and a needle one for fast ajustments. I haven't used it for a while, seem to remember it's OK at WOT but seemed to bog a bit in the mid range, I might have been too enthusiastic with enlarging the transitions holes, but easily remedied if needed.
I was looking at a 2" pipe off the blower, that would give me about 700cc as plenum volume. Could increase that a bit to get around 1000cc...
Drive will be off the mainshaft, around 2 to 1 to give 10psi boost. 2.5 to 1 to get 16psi but the supercharger starts to spin a lot!!! The blurb says these AMR 500 can spin for a short while at 16000rpm but no mention as what is actually a short while :-D :-D :-D. That's calcs without pumping losses, don't know how much losses I should account for... 5%? 10%?
One can also infer from the blurb that they are really designed for injected EPAed motors, they don't get the vaporisation coolling effect, so they would get very hot then. With dead cool methanol in it, 16000 rpm might be quite safe??
Back to the throttle: I won't have to hold it open, the lanyard thingy goes underneath it:
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/throttle.jpg)
Patrick
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I think you're right - the time is limited to temperature, and alcohol should help a lot.
Goes into an extension of the original manifold, or?
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Patrick, the system Lars is showing is relatively safe. There is a single fuel line running through a sealed system and the electrical currents in the system are low amperage. Power for a small item like this can easily be provided by a little sealed battery hidden somewhere on the bike.
Several times in my life I have stopped runaway engines with a kill button or switch. This is not uncommon on Amal equipped bikes. The throttle slides will occasionally stick in the wide open position. It was not unusual for the insulation on the wire to the kill switch to blister from the heat. This happened on a Yamaha SC500, too. It is the large amount of current that is going to the kill switch that is causing the heat.
Harley magnetos are something I am not familiar with and I cannot give good advice. It is worth checking, though, to verify that the kill switch part of this fuel shutoff arrangement will handle the current without overheating. A sensitive part of our anatomy is in close proximity to these shutoff valves. A person cannot be too careful.
This looks like a fun build.
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wobblywalrus: It is worth checking, though, to verify that the kill switch part of this fuel shutoff arrangement will handle the current without overheating
Hi, there no current or heat generated in the kill switch when it's open on a mag. When closed, it prevents the mag generating the small voltage on the primary coil by shortening the points to earth, so no current/heat either. I basically don't want a battery on the bike :-D
Panic: Goes into an extension of the original manifold, or?
Will probably have to mod the std manifold, shock horror :-D... A friend has plenty of S/S tubing from his factory, big diameter and thin wall for food stuff hygienic filling lines, should have the bits I need, including tapers/cones reducers to join the big tubes to the manifold...
More bits for the puzzle...Collected the iddler gear that will drive the front mounted magneto. It's actually the 1/2 speed gear on an old XL grind cam 2 I'll never use, rear inlet, its inners bored out and a alloy suitable insert machined for two of 9mm x 24mm x 7mm ball bearings that will roll on the iddler shaft that still needs making... These are the same ball bearings that the KR cams run on...
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/iddlera.jpg)
Patrick
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probably have to mod the std manifold
I suspect (haven't cut one up yet) that an Evo manifold might be a good donor. The V separation angle is wrong, but it appears easier to fix than trying to add volume and improve internal shape in a K (which is after all a 1940 part number).
The slight downdraft is actually helpful - invert it, and it assists the rise from the port CL to the valve seat.
As a first step, which Evo engine has an intake port size closest to the K (1.56?). The S&S for that will have a relatively huge throat for the 1-7/8 E etc.
This will also make the transition from your transfer tube easier.
If you don't have the room for a really big radius from the tube to the manifold inlet (like 2") so as not to centrifuge fuel to the outside, the next best shape is supposed to be a torus, but I'm afraid that the entry point and geometry may be fairly picky as to droplet fall-out.
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Jeff: I suspect that an Evo manifold might be a good donor
Hum, anything alloy is bad for me cause our works tig welders only do steel (as they are only DC?)
If it was to work and invert it, then it falls deeper into the Vee, restricting the max diameter of the plenum...
I roughly drawn this, not quite to scale, the 3" diameter plenum ending as near as possible to the manifold, that is if there's enough space between the cyls!!! Plenum and manifold in the same axis:
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/manifolda.jpg)
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/manifoldb.jpg)
I suppose I could lift up the plenum a bit by having its floor in line with the manifold floor, that should limit the fuel puddles...
Patrick
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Re: 90° transition from transfer tube (parallel to wheelbase) to manifold entrance.
A big radius here is a tight fit, but helps keep fuel suspended by keeping the wall lengths closer (inner vs. outer).
If you can't do anything else, a 3-dimensional shape with a much larger radius allows more efficient flow (and more internal volume) by shifting the bulk of the curve outside the envelope. From the transfer tube, the curve goes up (or down) 90°, and left 270° to align with the manifold CL. Think of 2 donuts at right angles.
The disadvantage is that it adds substantial width alongside the engine.
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Hi all,
Got a few bits done recently, slow progress!!!
Ordered the screens for the fairing, looks good so far, still not quite happy with the top bracket to the tripple tree, we'll see...
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/fairinga.jpg)
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/fairingb.jpg)
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/fairingc.jpg)
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/fairingcd.jpg)
Methanol tap is also done...
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/tapa.jpg)
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/tapb.jpg)
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/tapc.jpg)
I've started dismantling the 1954 KHK engine today, more on that later...
All the best from Patrick
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Hi All,
So I've started work the engine... Which really mean I just dismantled it to check it, it's got about 4000 miles since last rebuilt...
Cylinders, heads and pistons, no signs of distress anywhere, weird shapped carbon deposits in the squish area!!!
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/heada.jpg)
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/headb.jpg)
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/headc.jpg)
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/headd.jpg)
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/pistona.jpg)
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/pistonb.jpg)
Small traces of combustion passing the compression rings, so just a little deglaze and new rings at this stage...
Patrick
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Patric, that one piston with the shiny spot above the first ring... Do the other wear marks on the skirt indicate the piston might be cocked in the bore?
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Hi, wobblywalrus,
No, that's "normal" on these K/KH engines, that's the face of the pistons that is exposed in the combustion chamber due to piston pop up and the deeper flow channels that I cut in the cylinders, racing KR style. So that part is facing the combustion front full on, never gets deposits there...
That pic shows the front piston at TDC:
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/heade.jpg)
Patrick
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Thanks for showing this. An interesting project, for sure.
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Lookinh good Patrick!
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Hi Everybody,
the KHK engine is now in bits...
Today some of the mods I did to it over the 25 years I've owned it, mainly mods to reduce drag in there, these sidevalve are OK on power, but everything you can save on friction is a bonus!!!
Standard crank main drive bearing is a massive double Timken taper roller arrangement:
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/khkdrivestd.jpg)
Moded the cases to fit single lip single row roller, plus a few spacers to suit:
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/khkdrivemoda.jpg)
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/khkdrivemodb.jpg)
Standard crank timing side bearing is caged rollers and a steel bush in the case:
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/khktimingstd.jpg)
Same thing but slightly smaller roller bearing cause the cam bearings are in the way...
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/khktimingmod.jpg)
See you,
Patrick
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Hi Everybody,
Timing chest, this is a 4 cammer, plenty of scope...
Standard K and KH are all brass bushes in there:
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/khkcoverstd.jpg)
So, plenty of Torrington needle bearings on the timing cover, plus an XR750 lip seal in the bore for the timing shaft, makes sure oil goes to the crank rollers and don't overflow back in the chest:
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/timingcover.jpg)
And ball bearings on the other side:
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/khkchest.jpg)
In the gear box, the mainshaft/sprocket runs on loose rollers, fitted the same roller bearing as on the crank drive side, makes it as well a lot easier to assemble:
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/khksprocketmod.jpg)
See you,
Patrick
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Hi Everybody,
That's the carburettor I'm planning on using on this built, good old S&S MGAL 1"7/8 from the early 70s, already moded some time ago for methanol for one of me OHV Sportsters...
S&S told me it couldn't be done but hey, if you don't try, you don't get anywhere... I had to relocate the whole iddle/intermediary circuit on the outside, Tillotson needle for the iddle plus fitting of a Mikuni adjustable extra main jet...
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/khkcarba.jpg)
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/khkcarbb.jpg)
NOS air filter came free from a friend in Scotland, Nick, I think it's from a big Holley type carb for a car!!!
See you,
Patrick
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No personal experience with KR lower ends, so merely observations (not advice)?
single lip single row roller: IIRC this is where Norton used a Superblend to prevent edge contact due to crank flex (H-D used a ball bearing).
slightly smaller roller bearing: for those not familiar, this requires the smaller R shaft (not easily visible).
Torrington needle bearings: I see the #2 is full-complement, while the smaller ones are cage-separated (1958-* XL used full-complement). Any capacity problems with the lower roller count?
S&S told me it couldn't be done: I've found that this sometimes means "We can't do it, therefore you can't do it".
fitting of a Mikuni adjustable extra main jet: do you mean the power jet, or is there a 2nd main? If PJ, are you using 75/25, or something else? I understand that the height of the discharge tip is a tuning point, is yours adjustable?
Love the Tillotson wheel! (for non-believers: this was the cause of more cursing, swollen knees, fires, and short sales than any other 1966-70 Sportster part including the magneto).
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Hi panic,
single lip single row roller: IIRC this is where Norton used a Superblend to prevent edge contact due to crank flex (H-D used a ball bearing).
There's less than 3"1/2 between the crank bearings centers, I can assure you these K/KH/Sporty cranks are not FlexiFlyers!!!
XR750 did go for superblend bearings after 1980, more due to ever higher rpms and brinneling than flexi cranks. They were happy till then with the old KR ball bearings. My roller bearings are the same dimms as the KR ball bearings, drive side 25 x 52 x 15, timing side 25 x 47 x 12. Just went for rollers cause I used the bike on the street, a bit more longevity!!! Also makes for quicker setting of end play and assembly...
Torrington needle bearings: I see the #2 is full-complement, while the smaller ones are cage-separated (1958-* XL used full-complement). Any capacity problems with the lower roller count?
Did not notice any problems with the cage needles. Plenty of oil feed through the cast in oil collectors on the back of the bearing bores. If I remember right, I've done that probably 15 years ago, these where INA needle bearings since I could't get Torringtons at the time. The full complement one is a Torrington.
fitting of a Mikuni adjustable extra main jet: do you mean the power jet, or is there a 2nd main?
There's a fixed main jet inside the bowl at the std location. The OHV was running quite lean even with a 3mm (.120...) diameter main jet... Rather than the hit and miss to increase it bigger, I fitted the Mikuni needle on the outside, makes for quicker setting... It is level with the fixed one in the chamber just below the emulsion tube.
The clear pipe you see on the side of the carb is actually the outside iddle/transition circuit, with transition jet as a 3mm diameter lenght of copper bar with a suitable hole in it and trapped by safety wires!!!
Love the Tillotson wheel
I quite like the whole Tillotson meself!!! Bit of an acquired taste, but once you get the idea, it works and it's got the most wicked response of all Sporty carbs!!!
Patrick
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Great stuff. Takes me back to my sordid early days of adapting superblends into an XLR and a KHRM for the crank, single row on the timing side. Worked fine and lasted a long time. I'm with panic on the crank flex, it was a problem and I had some cracked cases as evidence. The fix for the "new" 1972 XR750 was the double row Superblend bearings first done by Johnny Goad, held in by retaining hardware inside the crankcase. H-D borrowed his engine and made changes in the casting to use the double rows from then on. I used to own one of his 1972 engines.
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Hi K.H.,
Thanks for the info...
Reading the parts books, there's a change in crank bearings in 1988. I always assume they were just single row rollers up to that date and superblend after that... Since there's no illustrations, it's hard sometimes to see what the changes are if you don't own an actual XR engine!!!
Still, went to have another look at my cases, nothing seems untowards at this stage, just maybe my roller bearing on the timing side showing a bit of play... Mind you, I had it geared very long for street use, about 4500rpm for 95mph.
See you,
Patrick
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Hi everybody, happy new year to you all...
Finally received the AMR500 supercharger this week, a month and 1/2 from Australia, air mail, it takes some beating, even accounting for busy Christmas period!!! So not much done on the bike except loads of preliminary drawings for the drive and other bits...
Just had a quick look at the AMR this afternoon, looks nice, no wear on the lobes...
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/amra.jpg)
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/amrb.jpg)
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/amre.jpg)
The main problem, I'll have to fit the pulley on the other rotor, seems like inlet and exhaust are not swappable as such while it will turn backwards. As it is, the pumping occurs clockwise while I need to drive it counter-clockwise from the engine sproket on the engine's left hand side...
Looks like it's all symetrical, so it's probably just a question to fit the bottom lobe on the top and the top one on the bottom... Had a go at it but it will take a better press than I have here in the garage to split the body!!!
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/amrg.jpg)
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/amrh.jpg)
I'll go back in the garage tomorrow to fit empty engine in the frame and look at the general layout for the drive.
All the best from Patrick
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Welcome back Patrick !
...and congratulations with your new blower.
IF IT AIN'T BLOWN IT SUCKS !
.. Had a go at it but it will take a better press than I have here in the garage to split the body!!!
P L E A S E D O N O T DO T H A T !!!!!!
...if it's build the same way as my AISIN 300
(http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb220/octane98extra/blower2.jpg)
and I'm pretty sure it is.
Please see this ( and scroll down ):
CLICK (http://www.landracing.com/forum/index.php/topic,5849.135.html)
...where you'll find pics of the failed 'rebuild' of my (first) blower.
First problem: you will inevitably damage the bearing during dis-assembly
and they have the most wacky of wacky dimensions and they are NOT available.
As you can see ; that problem can be worked around.
BUT
The problem, to witch I never found a solution is that there is NO WAY
you can hold the rotors in ABSOLUTELY correct position during assembly.
I thought I could, using the method shown, but it never was perfect and it
needs to be bloody PERFECT.
The smallest of smallest of the smallest out-of-true will cause them to interfere with each other.
Now IF you have them in the correct position there is no way to
avoid that the position of one of the cogwheels ( is that the phrase ?) WILL move.
As you press it in with the nut it moves because of the 'angle' of the cogs in the cogwheel.
It's a VERY strange set-up.
BOTH wheels are pressed on ( you'll need a LOT of heat . It's EXTREMELY tight )
AND one (!) has a nut.
(http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb220/octane98extra/RIMG0067.jpg)
As you tighten up the nut the wheel clings to the lobe-shaft
and as the cogs are 'angled' ...the wheel turns ( in relation to the other wheel )
and drives the shaft with it...ever so slightly....
and the set-up gets out of wack.
The blower that I rebuild for my Honda didn't have that problem cause
the cogs are straight.
(http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb220/octane98extra/Adskiltkomp.jpg)
I really wish I could explain it better.
If need be, send me a PM with your phone-number and I'd be happy to give you a call
and maybe explain it better.
[ EDIT: just re-checked you pics. Appears that maybe your 500 isn't build the
same way as mine, so maybe you don't have the same problem (?) ]
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Hi Lars,
Thanks for the tips and the link to your thread. My AMR500 looks a bit different than your AMR300... No nuts on the gear side, plus there's a timing mark on the gears. Only one nut on the drive side with woodruff key for the pulley. The drive bearing is as yours, wider than the slave lobe, and sticks out a bit...
The pulley is about 75mm, 3" pitch diameter... That would mean a 6" pulley on the engine sprocket, way too big cause of the KH clutch arrangement. The plan is to fit that 3" pulley on the engine and find a smaller one for the AMR. I plan to start with a 2 to 1 speed ratio...
On mine, I do not intend to part the gears from the lobes, just looking at pulling off the whole gear housing and lobes and turn it 180 degrees. The sticky point seems to be the 2 pins that locate that housing to the body casting proper.
I've googled this AMR500 till death recently, can't find anything about making it spin the other way. One drg I've found seems to show a small casting diff between the intake and exhaust chambers.
It does suck and blow whichever way I make it spin, but I'm a bit worried about spinning it at 11000rpm the reverse way from what it has been manufactured for!!! Swapping the drive from bottom to top will keep the chambers as intended.
All the best from Patrick
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I don't know if it applies to your supercharger but as I remember on our 6-71's Mooneyham put shims behind the gear so when it is tightened the indexing becomes correct.
-
I love this idea for this bike!
Are you going to use the 'stock' cams, or are you changing cams for the blower?
-
jdincau: our 6-71's Mooneyham put shims behind the gear
Don't know yet if there's any there!!!
38flattie: Are you going to use the 'stock' cams
Bit of a quandry here... It's a KHK, high lift cams, .375 which is good, but lots of overlap, not so good...
I've tried to find a set of KH cams, they only lift .295 and would have less overlap but no luck so far... I don't have pockets deep enough for new cams, the supercharger was enough of a drain!!!
The drive train for the 4 cams makes it difficult to retard the inlet cams by the same amount, rear inlet is driven from the timing shaft by a 36 teeth gear (10 degrees per tooth) while the others 3 are driven from the rear inlet with 24 teeth (15 degree per tooth) gears. So it's probably easier to advance the exhausts to loose some of the overlap...
Patrick
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rear inlet is driven from the timing shaft by a 36 teeth gear (10 degrees per tooth) while the others 3 are driven from the rear inlet with 24 teeth (15 degree per tooth) gears.
I know it looks complicated with the cover off.
The #2 has 36 teeth on the driven row, runs at 1/2-speed off the 18 tooth pinion gear.
This sets the relative speed of the entire gear train, and the other gears are driven at this speed by their common 28 tooth row.
Since the all cams run 1/2 speed, each tooth on the big (36 tooth) row is 20°, each tooth on the small (28 tooth) is 25.71°.
Unfortunately, the overlap can only be addressed by moving the #1 or #4 (exhaust) cams relative to their drivers (#2 & 3), which is a huge change and leaves the overlap asymmetrical (I'm not sure what that will do here).
The exhaust duration has to go somewhere, and here it's removed from the working cycle by opening the exhaust 25.71° earlier which drops average BMEP quite a bit.
My KHK data shows timing as:
intake 30-57 (273) 98.5 CL
exhaust 65-33 (275) 102.5 CL
overlap 73, LSA 100.5.
Advancing the exhausts 1 tooth:
intake 30-57 (273) 98.5 CL
exhaust 85.7-9.3 (275) 128.2 CL
overlap 47.3, LSA 113.35
The overlap triangle area is reduced to about (using Vizard's guess) 42%, really huge.
Since there's no contact or interference problem, might as well try it.
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Hi Jeff,
Thanks for correcting me on the teeth numbers :wink: it's indeed 28 teeth on the train, not 24 as I recalled from my deficient memory!!!
You know I don't have much experience with superchargers, but I did see a lot of race engines over the years... As far as retarding the exhaust cams, it would follow most race cams I've seen. Per example, on the H-D/Aer Macchi CRTT, the H cam grind opens the exhaust 105 degrees before BDC, reason being they deducted from engine dyno tests that all the power from combustion is in the piston by that time and there's not much to be gained at the bottom of the piston travel. Could it also have to do with much higher revs than US built SV or OHV H-Ds??
So it don't look too outrageous to me with exhaust starting to open at 86 degrees before BDC.
I still think one still needs a bit of overlap in a supercharged engine to develop any power.
Surely, if one starts with a WL type cam, no amount of supercharging will compensate for the very mild timing one's stuck with???
My friend Gordon came to see me this afternoon to look at the supercharger, so we wheeled the bike out in the rain while the tea was brewing...
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/amri.jpg)
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/amrj.jpg)
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/amrk.jpg)
See you around,
Patrick
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Question....do you think with gravity feed to the carb. the float bowl on the S&S is big enough using a blower.......We had to make some major mods. on our Turbo/Busa S&S carb. on a draw/thru system using gravity feed at 12lbs boost...it would suck the standard bowl dry in a 2mile run on the salt..................
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Hi, bak189,
Good question!!!
I measured once the bowl capacity, it's 175cc... All I can say at this stage, it coped allright on methanol on my normally aspirated XLRTT!!!
My supercharger calcs tell me I will be using between 800cc and 1000cc of methanol per minute at 5500rpm...
Patrick
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Patrick, that is a nice bike. A suggestion if you run it on the salt, especially wet and rutted salt. Use a shorter rear strut and lower the forks in the trees to give yourself more trail. Run it and see how it works. Assuming you get no wigglewaggle on decel, you can drop the front and use the long strut. It is a good idea to be on the safe side at first.
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Sorry, major typo in the KHK timing figures - used some from the next line in my .xls table (my edit expired, can't correct theoriginal post)
KHK data shows timing as:
intake 38-55 (273) 98.5 CL
exhaust 60-35 (275) 102.5 CL
overlap 73, LSA 100.5.
Advancing the exhausts 1 tooth:
intake 38-55 (273) 98.5 CL
exhaust 85.7-9.3 (275) 128.2 CL
overlap 47.3, LSA 113.35
Well, you're stuck with using K, KH etc. due to the lobe tapers so a 45 isn't going to help. I know people have used KH in a 45 (same angle, but reversed) for quite a while, but it wasn't at high speed or with bog springs, and it eventually eats the lobe (the roller corner digs in, then the hard-face comes off).
The LSA actually looks pretty good (certainly better than stock) and despite the low OL duration you have boost to help it out.
I can't think of anything else that doesn't require replacing cams.
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wobblywalrus: Use a shorter rear strut and lower the forks in the trees to give yourself more trail.
It's already as low as can be on the rear end, 3.50 x 18" tyre is only about 1" from bottom of seat. The Cerianis tube ends are about 2" or 3" above the top tree so I can lift the bike a bit if needed. I just assembled it as it is on the principle that the lower the bike for a given wheelbase (55" for this frame), the more stable it should be???
Its rake is the same as std Sportsters or Ks, 29 to 30 degrees, and I certainly don't want to modify the frame!!! I'll AutoCAD the set up to see the rake/trail variations if I lift the front end.
Thanks for the tips!!!
Jeff, I will probably try the KHK cams to start with... I've had the bike for 27 years now and never put a degree wheel on it, but I will check these figures in the near future to compare with you data and calcs. Thanks again for your insights...
Patrick
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Are those 35mm mid-weight road race?
There are a few different fork tree sets for those, you may find one with a stem position closer to the tube center, which will add trail (same rake) in almost 7/8:1 ratio (move stem 7/8", get 1" trail).
This is going to sound odd, but using struts doesn't tie down the swingarm as well as it looks. You still have a bit of wiggle in the S/A pivot Timkens (just guessing: the normal adjustment is pre-load it until the bare S/A locks up, then back off until it barely falls of its own weight?); I'd increase the pre-load slightly.
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Hi Jeff,
Yes, these are period 60's road race Cerianis, not the CNC type modern stuff, found them in France, with steel extensions to fit a tall Laverda twin... Bartered them for a set of 30s Guzzi race Brampton girders somebody else gave to me, I tell you, race on a shoe string!!!
:wink: Yes, the swing arm adjuster nut is tight, real tight plus a bit of hammer at the end of the socket!!! Doesn't move up or down at all...
Patrick
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Sorry, major typo in the KHK timing figures - used some from the next line in my .xls table (my edit expired, can't correct theoriginal post)
KHK data shows timing as:
intake 38-55 (273) 98.5 CL
exhaust 60-35 (275) 102.5 CL
overlap 73, LSA 100.5.
Advancing the exhausts 1 tooth:
intake 38-55 (273) 98.5 CL
exhaust 85.7-9.3 (275) 128.2 CL
overlap 47.3, LSA 113.35
Well, you're stuck with using K, KH etc. due to the lobe tapers so a 45 isn't going to help. I know people have used KH in a 45 (same angle, but reversed) for quite a while, but it wasn't at high speed or with bog springs, and it eventually eats the lobe (the roller corner digs in, then the hard-face comes off).
The LSA actually looks pretty good (certainly better than stock) and despite the low OL duration you have boost to help it out.
I can't think of anything else that doesn't require replacing cams.
Patrick, this looks like a good place to start! With the wider LSA, and decreased overlap, you should see an improvement. The high lift and duration should help 'exhaust' the spent gasses. You could compensate some, I belueve, with a small increase of the boost.
Cool project, I'm subscribed!
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Hi, 38flattie or Jeff,
I'm as far as you can get from being an engineer...
While I understand fully the concept of overlap and its effects on normally aspirated engines, I've got some difficulties grasping LSA... What are the effects of various LSA on the same engine???
Lars, I had a better look at the AMR500 today, needed to do all the drawings for the mounting brackets... I think I will leave it as is and do not wish to split it. As you mentionned, small differences in the ball bearings and they are not in my otherwise complete SKF catalogue... So I will spin it reverse...
The one on the driver lobe is 17 x 52 X ? probably 15 wide, while the one on the driven lobe is 16 x 47 x ? probably 12 wide... Oddest sizes I've seen in a while, last time I experienced anything like that was on a Swiss Motosacoche D 50 OHV race engine from the 30s!!!
So I've drawn a main bracket that will fix it directly onto the cast steel rear engine mount, it's got 4 bolts on top of the gear box, plus a straightener on the other side where I will locate an iddler/tensioner as on yours. So I will not need to mod the frame for that purpose...
So quite a few bits to machine in the near future, so long,
All the best from Patrick
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Patrick, I'm far from an expert myself! I've done a lot of research, simply because there is virtually no info on the blown Cadillac flathead I'm building. Here is the simplest answer I've found:
The LSA is the mumber of degrees between intake and exhaust lobe centerlines. The LSA can be fine tuned.. By narrowing the LSA, you can increase Cylinder pressure and higher rpm potential by allowing the intake to close earlier and the exhaust to open later. This increases the amount of time that the piston has to travel before exhausting, but may increase the potential for detonation..
Widening the LSA can be tuned to decrease the chance of detonation and improve low end and idle quality..
The duration of the cam must be adjusted for any major rpm range changes..
Decreasing lobe separation:
1. narrows the powerband
2. moves the powerband lower
3. makes the idle choppier
4. makes more power
5. pumps up the midrange
Increasing lobe separation
1. widens powerband
2. makes the idle smoother
3. takes away from the midrange
4. produces less maximum power
Racers usually use tight lobe separations. The only exceptions are Pro-Stock, where 500+ ci are revved to the moon with cams so HUGE, tight LSA's produce too much overlap, and nitrous/blower/turbo applications where overlap sends all that extra fuel mixture out the tailpipe! You may experience this, and may want a wider LSA because of it.
Tight lobe separations increase overlap and can help increase velocity in overly huge intake ports. This will pump up the midrange, and make the engine feel less "lazy". Some 351C drag race cams have lobe separations as low as 102-104 degrees. Automatics generally need a tighter lobe separation for extra midrange.
Small engines with big ports LOVE tight lobe separations, large engines with small ports work better with wider angles between the lobes.
A tighter lobe separation also allows you to use a slightly larger cam in a lower rpm range. If you want maximum valve timing without revving the engine to the moon, a tighter lobe separation can make it happen
Panic is far more technical than I am, and can probably give some good advice here. I'm curious to hear his answer.
In addition, there is a LOT of experience on this board. I'm sure you'll receive some advice based on experience, rather than theory. I'd take the actual, over the theoretical experience, every time!
Good luck on this!
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Hi, 38flattie,
Thanks for the interest and answers!!!
As I want to bring all the bits to my machinist next Friday, I'll have to pull the empty engine of the frame one of these next evenings after work, if I find the energy!!!
I will then record the std valve timing and do the graphs, degrees vs lift.
One thing I've always been curious at, the tappets are not at all in line with the cams, sort like an offset cylinder to crank shaft, which is found a lot on old european vintage engines, Guzzi and Motosacoche come to mind...
This must surely skew up the actual cam timing when it translates into valve motion and make it even more assymetrical than on the cams (these roller tappets KHK cams have the opening lobe convex for higher acceleration while the closing ramp is normal, concave for smoother desceleration, with quite a long "full opening" in the middle, might be tricky to find the centre of the lobe, I'm pretty sure it won't be as expected in the middle of the cam timing!!!)
Patrick
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All H-D (well, 1929-1999?) have the tappet center advanced vs. the cam base circle etc. by about 1/8" to be under the rising lobe, which reduces side thrust. Yes, the accel and decel rates are different, and the max lift point isn't centered in the duration, which makes the nominal CLs and LSA academic as to actual function.
They're still useful to compare among cams for the same engine (but not other engines) since the same type of asymmetry exists in all.
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Hi All,
Been a bit busy yesterday evening! Did have this degree wheel for about 5 years but never made an adapter for it!!!
So, all installed, find TDC, old reliable method, screw inside cylinder, rotate one way, then the other and TDC is in the middle...
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/timinga.jpg)
Then got on with the magnetic base and dial...
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/timingb.jpg)
Results, with 5 thou tappet clearance on both valves, front cylinder, I might do the rear tonight!!!:
Exhaust opens 52 deg before BDC
Exhaust closes 47 deg after TDC
Max lift .379
Duration 52 + 180 + 47 = 279 deg
Max lift at 85 deg after BDC, 3 deg off centre
Inlet opens 28 deg before TDC
Inlet closes 71 deg after BDC
Max lift .373
Duration 28 + 180 + 71 = 279 deg
Max lift at 70 deg before BDC, 2 deg off centre
Max overlap is at about 20 deg after TDC
Std KHK graph (never done that before on a spreadsheet, took a while to get the wanted display...)
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/stdkhkcam.jpg)
Moded the data on the graph to get the idea, 20 deg advance on the exhaust cam (not the 25 deg from the 28 teeth gears, will actually advance the exhaust cams later to measure for real!!!)
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/advexkhkcam.jpg)
All the best from tired Patrick!!! Was still thinking about all this at 3 am...
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Outstanding! And very little overlap to boot!
I always thought these had a tremendous amount of overlap, so I'm surprised!
Having owned a Harley continuously since I graduated high school in 1981, sometimes as many as 6 at a time, this build really intrigues me. Add to the fact that the FlatCad is running custom heads designed by us, with a modified KR chamber, and I'm really intrigued. I've owned Knuckles, Pans, Shovels, and Twins, and always replaced the cams with Leineweber performance cams. Out of curiosity, I contacted them about your build.
And yes, in the contact I said 'I'm" building it, but it doesn't change the info! :evil:
I hope this info is somehow helpful!
I have a 1954 KHK, that I'm putting a AMR 500 lobe supercharger on, and plan to
run methonal. I believe the cams are high lift cams, .375. I would like to get
the cams worked to get the most power out of the setup I can. I think it may
have too much overlap for the blower? What can you do for me, and what is the
cost?
Dear Buddy,
Mr. Leineweber has the following comments:
The cams you have are low overlap cams for racing flatheads. You probably do
not have too much overlap, and it will probably run pretty good with the set up
you have.
He suggests you put the bike together with the components you have, run it and
then call him and talk to him about your results and what you would like to
change. He also needs to know what boost and carbueration you are running?
He can be reached most mornings 8-9 am at 760-364-4432.
Warmest regards,
Norma Wheeler for Jim Leineweber
Patrick, I hope I didn't step on any toes here! I just really loves builds like yours and Lars's (Octane)! :cheers:
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Thanks, 38flattie!!!
I'll have to put your name on the seat cowl as adviser supremo!!!
Std overlap is 75 degrees which is not low by any standard!!!
If I advance the exhaust cams one tooth, 25.7 degrees on the crank, overlap will reduce to 49.3 degrees and sort of center it more around TDC which is more "normal" in me eyes, peak will be about 5 deg after TDC, me thinks I'll stick to that for the moment.
Maybe the std overlap peak being so far after TDC is due to long stroke and rods, I can't believe the piston "inaction" at the top of the bore, it's really left to the exhaust gases to draw the 1st bit of the mix in...
I also measured the piston pop up. The piston sticks .060 above the deck while the head recess is .120, so .060 of squish. Don't know where, I can't remember reading it in the KR booklets, but the factory was looking at .030 to .040 squish, will probably ask my machinist to skim a bit off my cylinder bases to get that .040 figure.
I have another Excell sheet with supercharger calcs, I put a link since it's a bit big...
http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/supcalcs.jpg (http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/supcalcs.jpg)
The yellow line is the max "safe" setting!!! (now, where did I hear that before??!!!)
Carb will be the moded 1"7/8 MGAL S&S I've shown earlier in photo...
By for now, Patrick
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Just a few thought's here, not that they amount to much.
I see you're 'safe' limit is 12lbs boost @12356 supercharger rpm's, so you're 'over spinning' the supercharger.
Could you mill the heads to up the compression, use the head gasket thickness to insure the .040" squish area, and drop to 11lbs boost @ 11893 rpms, keepng the supercharger within factory recommended rpm's?
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Hi, 38flattie
The ARM 12000 rpm limit is for cars, while sucking pure air, getting hot and such, as gas is injected after in the plenum runners. They do say you can run them faster "for a while".
I'll haver the carb before the AMR, hence vaporizing plenty of methanol, that should cool the AMR plenty!!!
No head gasket on any K, KR and KH, just silver paint on both faces, let dry till just sticky and assemble. That ensure the squish is consistent I suppose...
Patrick
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Ah, very good! :-D
-
Hi all,
Had a bit of a cold recently, so not much progress, again...
Still, took 1/2 a day of work to bring most of the engine to the machine shop, B&E Engineering in Crewe. I'v' been using their skills for the last 20 years when they were just 2 partners in a cramped unit, Eric and Brian... Eric retired last year so there's just Brian now, with about 10 employees these days in much bigger premises. That's Brian:
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/brian7.jpg)
And you can see now what I look like!!!:
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/brian8.jpg)
So, plenty of bits on the table!!!
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/brian2.jpg)
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/brian5.jpg)
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/brian9.jpg)
And a long list of drawings and notes to get the following done:
Dual plug the heads
Mods to right hand side case and timing cover for iddler gear and front magneto fitting
Skim cylinder bases to get the squish band to 40 thou, it's about 60 thou at present
Make supercharger drive and support brackets, plus inlet and outlet flanges for carb and plenum chamber connections, and last, new belt pulley
Make supercharger drive seal and bearing holder, to be welded on primary cover, but I have not yet decided if I'm using the tin cover or the cast alloy K one...
Don't know how fast I can get the bits back, so, for now, that's all, folks!!!
Patrick
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Hi All,
Another Friday, another visit to my fav machinist and quite a few bits done.
Front magneto and iddler installed but I forgot to take photos, most of the seance was talking about the supercharger drive!!! Decided to use the tin cover and fit no bearing on the drive shaft, just a seal...
Moded crank sprocket with refaced inner and drive rollers:
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/brian10.jpg)
1/2 finished (way too long!) drive shaft:
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/brian11.jpg)
Assembly:
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/brian12.jpg)
See you all soon,
Patrick
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duplicate...
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Hi All,
I was a bit busy today, trip to Walesby in the Nottingham Forest (Robin Hood...) to check rally site and a committee meeting of our national Harley-Davidson Riders Club of G.B., but managed to go and see Brain 1st thing to check progress... The man has been real busy, I'm in debt!!! With any luck, the engine will be back in the garage within 2 weeks so the rest of the built can progress further...
Front magneto is all done, iddler an'all, it follows the lines of the KR/XLR/XR layout but not quite, just a bit simpler and did not require mods to the timing cover:
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/brian13.jpg)
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/brian14.jpg)
The supercharger bracket is also finished, it sandwitches between the body and its gear cover and bolts on the rear engine mount, totally independant of the frame:
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/brian15.jpg)
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/brian16.jpg)
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/brian17.jpg)
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/brian18.jpg)
The supercharger drive is also finished, alloy seal holder with a little back plate inside the tin cover to bolt on, I will just have to trim it a bit on the rear to be able to fit the std tin oil filler cover:
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/brian19.jpg)
The O ring seal/clamp pieces for the end of the plenum chamber are well on their way:
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/brian20.jpg)
Brian also found the time to do 2 flanges to mate the carb manifold and the plenum chamber to the supercharger:
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/brian23.jpg)
And, last but not least, the heads are now dual plugged!!!:
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/brian21.jpg)
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/brian22.jpg)
Plenum chamber will be made out of 2"1/2 stainless steel thin wall tubing, just need to source a wide 90 degree bend...
So quite a busy week really!!!
All the best from Patrick
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Excellent!
How much are you going to shorten the spark setting (original is 36°?)?
Given any thought to what effect (if any) the blower will have on convection air around the rear cylinder?
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Hi Jeff,
That's the only document I have on various Model K spark timing, for the KHK, it calls for 31 degree std. I used to run a tad more with the twin carb DC Linkert manifold, around 33... KR run 36 basic...
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/timing.jpg)
I'm not too sure, but think methanol needs a bit more spark advance than gas, all the rest being equal, so I probably will start the same, 33 degrees.
A friend of Gordon has a roll on dyno, that's where we'll be heading 1st to sort spark and fuel settings...
Still needs to fab an oil tank, possibly a water tank and would really like a shallower fuel tank to get my head tucked in better but my metal bashing skills are next to nill/ziltch!!!
Patrick
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Way too many variables changed at once for there to be an easy answer.
The extra stroke makes piston motion faster around TDC (added spark), so does the thin air. Of course, the boost takes it back. I don't remember enough about methanol to comment.
The most common recco for H-D OHV engines with a second plug is to drop 5°, but I'm not sure how that interpolates with the SV chamber.
I have an .xls plot of piston position vs. crank rotation for the KH, LMK if you can use a copy.
Not really practical this late in the game, but a simple thin cylinder on each side of your nose with a connecting hose underneath gives a lot more room. Fill from the right side (for kick-stand), simple Schraeder air bleed on the left.
-
Brilliant work, brilliant pics, brilliant post !
What more can one ask for !
I'm not too sure, but think methanol needs a bit more spark advance than gas
Yep
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Jeff: The most common recco for H-D OHV engines with a second plug is to drop 5°
Yep, I have a 67 CH with twin sparks that was on electronic dual fire, it was most happy at 40 deg fixed advance... KH chamber is way better than the Sporty high dome, as proven by a lot less spark advance, so me think 5 deg less might just be a bit too much.
Lars: What more can one ask for !
I aim to please!!! :-D
I finally decided it's too much hassle to try to reverse the drive on the AMR500, I will spin it reverse, drive lobe on top as shown on the latest photos, so plenum chamber will be in front and carb at the back. This will either mean a convoluted inlet track with carb on the right hand side next to strut or carb stuck within the rear triangulation or straight rearwards facing carb with unaccessible float chamber!!! I will have a better idea on how to progress when the engine's back in the cycle parts...
All the best from Patrick
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Hi again!!!
For the fuel tank, I'm looking at this shape:
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/lcp.jpg)
This is a hill climb alcohol tank from a French racing TerroT bike from the 30s, holds about 5 litres and it's a beauty...
Sadly, can't find anybody willing to have a go at making a slightly larger replica, they all want a form to work from... Whatever happened to all the old skills??? An uncle of me wife was working in the body shop at Rolls-Royce in Crewe, about 5 miles from here... He was an expert metal basher with all his personal tools and dollies... He was made redundant and just thrown all his tools in the bin and sits at home doing sod all, what a waste...
Patrick
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Hi All,
Last visit at Brian for a while,, the engine is now back in my garage for finalizing the built...
Brian started on the manifold hard bits, joining the 2"1/2 pipe to the nipples, t'will just need a bit of grinding/finishing to get a smooth transition:
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/brian24.jpg)
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/brian25.jpg)
I've sourced today a guy not far from me that deals in sanitary stainless pipe and fittings, he can get me a 2"1/2 elbow to run the pipe back to the supercharger outlet, should get that within a week...
Brian also machined the Ansin pulley, I wanted 2 pulleys, 2.25 to 1 and a smaller 3 to 1 ratio, but the second one would just be too small, no way to fit a nut on it!!!
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/brian26.jpg)
I could have Brian made me a smaller one for the crank shaft, we'll see first how that one copes... That'll be spinning the Ansin at slightly over 12,000 rpm for 5,500 on the engine...
I've got an all S/S iddler he made me some years back for a final chain drive that we will mod into a belt iddler, that will be fixed to an alloy plate in between the 2 pulleys...
Last week, we did measure the pop up, that was 60 thou of squish on the front head and 64 thou on the rear. Brian just skimmed the cylinder bases by 20 thou to get 40 and 44 thou of squish.
That's all for now, enjoy your week end, I know I will, putting back the empty engine in the frame to check tolerances between Ansin and frame...
Patrick
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Interesting to me, that the rear cylinder has more squish than the front. Would you happen to know the reasoning on that?
It's looking great Patrick- keep up the great work!
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Patrick, it looks like you could cut a small sportster tank in half and add some steel in the middle to lengthen it. That will give you that shape.
-
OR...you can contact Kent at Airtech in the good old USA......he has a tank the shape you are showing on the
OR....you can contact Kent at Airtech.....he makes a tank fairly close to the one on the French bike....
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Sorry.....computors have a brain of their own.........................................................and much smarter then this old man..............
-
It may be a little late for me to throw a monkey wrench into the works, but a thought occurred to me regarding your problem of driving the supercharger. Would it make sense to turn the blower over, putting the drive side on the right, and running a jackshaft to drive it on the off-side? That would reverse the direction of the rotors, and give you a wider selection of drive ratios.
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38flattie: the rear cylinder has more squish than the front
Actually, more space on the back cylinder, so a bit less squish... Still, I don't think I'm gonna worry about 4 thou!!! Usually, there's more heat on the back cylinder, it might compensate a bit!
wobblywalrus: you could cut a small sportster tank in half and add some steel
It's not the length I'm worried about, just the height!!! That TerroT tank is about half the height of the Sporty one.
bak189: Airtech has a tank the shape you are showing on the French bike
... No spare cash!! I still will go and have a look...
Koncretekid: turn the blower over, putting the drive side on the right
I though long and hard about where to drive it from. From the timing cover looks attractive, but they were a load more problems to solve there, rear exhaust pipe is in the way, the oil feed to the crank goes through the timing shaft, serious mods to the timing cover...
The higher ratio of 3 to 1 was to see if I get as much umph as at 5500 while limiting the engine revs to about 4000 rpm to save on bottom end wear.
Patrick
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Hi All,
Told you i was a bit worried about the clearances betwen blower and frame!!! Well, it just fits with very little to spare!!!
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/30.jpg)
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/31.jpg)
I will probably have to pull back the rear left foot rest as the clearance between my knee and the pulley is NIL!!!
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/27.jpg)
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/28.jpg)
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/29.jpg)
Well, I'm off now to a small meeting for some bowling with a few club friends in Morecombe, about 100 miles away,
See you soon, all the best,
Patrick
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FYI: I wasn't talking about driving it from the timing side. Drive the jackshaft from the primary side as you have it - the jackshaft crosses the crankcase and drives the blower from the right (timing) side. It would be extra brackets, shaft, pulleys and belts, but then the blower is rotating the correct direction.
Tom B.
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I agree, it's pretty small, and has the advantage of allowing more ratio choices without changing the blower or crank pulleys - just use different diameter sheaves/sprockets/pulleys on the ends.
-
FYI: I wasn't talking about driving it from the timing side. Drive the jackshaft from the primary side as you have it - the jackshaft crosses the crankcase and drives the blower from the right (timing) side. It would be extra brackets, shaft, pulleys and belts, but then the blower is rotating the correct direction.
Tom B.
Something like this set-up on a Norton, perhaps:
(http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb220/octane98extra/1-26.jpg)
(http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb220/octane98extra/a-9.jpg)
(http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb220/octane98extra/b-6.jpg)
BTW;
You might not want to see this,
but this is how it ended up:
Auuuuuurgh !
(http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb220/octane98extra/f-3.jpg)
(http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb220/octane98extra/g-3.jpg)
(http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb220/octane98extra/e-5.jpg)
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Exactly, only hopefully without the same result. Note, also, that there doesn't seem to be any overdriving of the supercharger. Looks like something like 4 to 3 , then 3 to 4, which of course equals 1 to 1. And still ..... A large pop-off valve would definitely be indicated.
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salut patrick
ton projet avance bien
merci pour le tableur de calcul poulie
pour ton reservoir si tu me donnes les dimensions on peut le fabriquer sur mesure
a+ bubuche
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Hi Octane,
(http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb220/octane98extra/e-5.jpg)
Ouch indeed!!! but looks to me more like a flywheel failure, nothing to do with the supercharger???
I looked again at me bike, anything driven from the right hand side would hit the rear pipe, no matter if driven from timing shaft or jack shaft. Also 8-) I fail to see what would I gain with one more pulley and an extra jack shaft?
On a Sporty, fair enough, the manifold points to the right, but the K one points to the left.
Merci pour ton offre, Bubuche, on verra un peu plus tard!!!
Patrick
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Hum, Regular as clockwork... Hi All,
The 2"1/2 elbow for the plenum did not show up on Friday, it will now be Monday at the earliest
A coworker gave me a TIG welder the other day, so just the day today to try and have a go on the carb manifold... Already had a small gas bottle with a flowmeter. Got no igniter on the welder so I've got to strike it right 1st!!!
I don't have much tooling and looked around for something to use as a jig to square all the bits... This 70s Sporty disc and hub just looked right!!!
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/32.jpg)
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/33.jpg)
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/34.jpg)
Just tacked it... Had the supercharger flange the wrong way round... :oops: so done it again right... Just presented on the bike to check clearances, just need now to cut some strips to fill the voids...
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/35.jpg)
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/36.jpg)
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/37.jpg)
Will do some more tomorrow!!!
Patrick
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Old standard practice was to check the torque on the cylinder base nuts after every heat in the race. In other words, if the bike went out on the track three times the base nuts would be checked three times. Properly tightened nuts would distribute the combustion loads evenly around the base flange and prevent cracking like that seen on the Norton, most of the time.
-
True - if you're still using the original 16830-54 base studs, you should replace them with the longer 16830-72.
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Hi Jeff,
If I use the longer 16830-72 studs, do the cases need threading deeper? (I hate touching stuff that looks OK!!!)
Good progress today, had a good garage clean up, it was starting to look messy... Then did some serious grinding in the plenum to smooth out the transition between the 2"1/2 pipe and the nipples...
I started on the bottom bit here, but the top is untouched, you can judge the steps!!!
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/38.jpg)
Bit more, nearly there...
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/39.jpg)
Then polishing... It's not perfect but it'll do for today!!!
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/40.jpg)
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/41.jpg)
Moded slightly my twin carb manifold alloy clamp and welded 2 nuts on the plenum, I'll have to improve my TIG welding...
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/42.jpg)
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/43.jpg)
Also measured a few things to draw on auto CAD for the other end of the plenum... All that this morning.
Afternoon, I spent redoing some brackets for the fairing, but evening came, no lights so no photos!!!
All the best from Patrick
-
Some cases are tapped deeper than the thread, no way to tell.
If you have enough thread showing, you can use a triangular washer under the nut, or the KR nut, or both to spread the load over more flange area.
-
do you mean washers like these?
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-11/1109362/washers2.jpg)
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-11/1109362/washers1.jpg)
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Hum, Ironwigwam,
Some serious inlet ports!!!
Patrick
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Patrick, Yes they are even serious cylinders as they are a welded construction from 4130 steel, totally hand made, no stock castings involved here
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Ironwigwam, those are bad-azz cylinders!
Patrick, the build is coming along great! :cheers:
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Hi All,
Well, the 2"1/2 bend is at the supplier, but he was working overtime away all week end, so no progress to report on the "glamourous" engine bits...
Instead, worked today on more "mundane" stuff, like making brackets for the fairing. Not quite finished...
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/bracket1.jpg)
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/bracket2.jpg)
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/bracket3.jpg)
Patrick
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Hi,
I went to pick up the bend yesterday evening at Neil's... He's quite busy so t'was very late but couldn't resist having a look later in the garage.
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/plenumb.jpg)
And started squaring off the straight pipe to join to the Ansin outlet flange...
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/plenuma.jpg)
And the postman just dropped a notification to pick up gear at the post office, these are magneto bits from California, will post some more later in the day...
Looks like another busy week end ahead!!!
Cheers from Patrick
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Hi All,
Good weekend indeed... It was our national Harley HDRCGB club's AGM on Saturday. Since I'm quite busy with this project, I haven't got a bike on the road yet, so got picked up early by the lads from the Lakes District region in a mini van. On arriving at the location, got approched by John, the rep of the New Forest region, who promply gave me my 1st sponsorship... They had a meeting earlier in the week to see what to say at the AGM and someone proposed that the region helps me. They voted yes so John gave me a cheque for £200, so big thanks to them!!!
Sunday, back in the garage... Finishing the plenum proved harder than anticipated since the Ansin outlet is not perpandicular to the bit already made... So a bit tricky to judge where to cut the bits so they line up!!!
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/44.jpg)
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/45.jpg)
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/46.jpg)
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/47.jpg)
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/48.jpg)
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/49.jpg)
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/50.jpg)
So that was most of the day gone... I will have to trim a few fins on the rear cylinder to give a bit more room for a rubber hose connector in between. I then started to look for an oil tank. I wanted to use a 60s std XL one but they're a bit wide... Looked around and remembered I had an old Pan Head one, already moded beyond salvation on the drive side... Chopped it in half to use the right hand side portion, it fits neatly below the seat and should hold about 2 quarts...
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/51.jpg)
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/52.jpg)
Well, it's late, I'm tired and need a good soak in the bath to get rid of all the grime!!!
See you soon, Patrick
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It's looking good Patrick!
What size is that stainless exhaust? edit- I just reread and see it's 2.5"
That sponsorship had to make you feel good- congrats! :cheers:
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Hi Everybody,
Bashed about a bit of steel the other night and finished the job tonight. The back finish is not too good, but hey, it's a proper vintage budjet bike, I'll do it as it would have been done in the old days, use whatever!!! Still, it's narrow enough which was the aim and I've seen enough alloy round oil tanks to last me a lifetime... Mostly all bronze brazed except the filling neck which I silver brazed...
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/oiltanka.jpg)
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/oiltankb.jpg)
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/oiltankc.jpg)
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/oiltanke.jpg)
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/oiltankh.jpg)
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/oiltanki.jpg)
See you soon,
Patrick
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Hi Everybody,
Yesterday, Saturday... I received the blow off valve at work during the week, only ordered it on Feb the 7th ... Nobody keeps any stock these days, they had to make it specially to fulfill my order. Fixed setting of 2 bar, 30psi... Soon had a 1" BSP socket trimmed down and ready to be welded later on the plenum...
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/blowoffa.jpg)
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/blowoffb.jpg)
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/blowoffc.jpg)
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/blowoffd.jpg)
Brought the pipe hand bender from work and started some rigid oil lines in 3/8 SS. Nylon pipe is temporary!!! I will fit proper oil hose later...
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/oilinea.jpg)
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/oilineb.jpg)
Then started to look at exhaust pipes... This one looks to far away from the engine.
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/exhaustc.jpg)
Also found a minute to install the fuel shut off valve on the tank:
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/shutoffa.jpg)
More later on...
Cheers from Patrick
-
Hi again!!!
Sunday... Found a more suitable piece of Sporty pipe, just 2 welds to do, that's the front pipe done and dusted...
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/exhauste.jpg)
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/exhaustd.jpg)
Tried to find a bend to run the rear pipe under the foot pegs, no luck... Then found these 2 bits and there's just enough room behind the oil tank to get the dip. It will just have to be lenghtened to 36 inch total like the front one.
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/exhaustf.jpg)
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/exhaustg.jpg)
That's me done for the day...
See you soon, Patrick
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Looking good Patrick almost there eh!
-
I've been watching with interest on your build technique..........impressive. I think I met your adopted brother a couple of years ago at the big swap meet in OHIO.......he was picking out the trashed Sportster pipes from the garbage barrel on the last day..........or was that my adopted brother?
-
Patrick, about the 36" pipe length. Tuned pipe length can help pull the intake charge into a the cylinder on a naturally aspirated motor. Does it also influence how a blown engine scavenges? Do you tune it to do the opposite? Is the pipe tuned to push against the incoming fresh charge to keep it from blowing out the exhaust valve?
-
Oz: Looking good...
Making progress, yes, but still a lot to do...
Old Scrambler: he was picking out the trashed Sportster pipes from the garbage barrel on the last day...
LOL, nothing wrong with garbage!!! I've built my pipes like this for the last 30 years, usually all bronze welded, that's the set in 1"1/2 when the KHK was roadworthy and normally aspirated... Got a pretty big box full of discarded bends!!!
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/2405063a.jpg)
wobblywalrus: 36" pipe length
I wouldn't know where to start to calculate pipe lenght on a sheet of paper... Just going with the flow here, 36" is the std lenght of pipe H-D had on most of its K based racers over the years, KR, XLR, XR, + or - a few inches to cope with local conditions and tracks
Patrick
-
Is there a way to calculate the correct pipe length/volume or do you just figure it out through trial and error?
-
Hi Gimpy Joe,
Found these 2 formulaes on the web, They seem OK...
1) Pipe length in inches = 850 x ED : rpm
Where ED is 180 degrees + the arc in degrees between exhaust valve opening and BDC.
For my engine: 850 x (180 degrees + 50 approx) : 5500 rpm = 35.5 inches
2) Pipe ID area = rpm x cylinder size in ci : 88200
For my engine: 5500rpm x 27.5ci : 88200 = 1"715 area = 0"738 radius x 2 = 1"470 ID
Std K or KH run 1"500 pipes.
Then, usually, smaller length = higher rpm peak torque, longer length = lower rpm peak torque...
My 36" length is from the start of the slip on bit on the exhaust port to the middle of the cutaway at the end, so the true length from valve to end is probably nearer 38"...
Patrick
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frenchowl,
just finished reading your build thread. very nice work.
a lot of engineering on that bike.
really like the intake manifold / head intake ports brace.
that should prevent any type of blow-off there.
franey
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Hi, saltwheels262,
Thanks for the nice comment,
But to me, it's just the way I work with what I've got so this built is not that much different from my other builts, just a bit more extreme and with a grail/goal other than just ride about on a special!!!
Anyway, big step today, I phoned Chuck, the BNI man in charge of attributing the Bonneville race numbers so I got a 3 digits one, 405 APS/VBF... Sounds too much like a bad French Peugeot car, just hope it'll be a tad faster...
Also spend some time later calling Jim Haubert in Arizona, that's where I will ship the bike later in the year...
He'll be part of our luxurious and numerous crew of three: Gordon Thompson, whom I met in Manchester in 1985 and a great lover of H-D Iron Heads; Jim Haubert, H-D race dept supa dupa extraordinary machinist and H-D official prototype builder in the 70's (he's the man that built with Willie G. Davidson the original Café Racer in 1974 in downtown Milwaukee...) and meself... Jim will be organizing a few things and sourcing a few spare parts for me on your side of the pond while I sit here doing nothing!!!
All in all a good day, rejuvenating, even if I did not go in the garage to say hello to the bike, too fed up recently with me Tig welding skills or rather lack of them!!!
Cheers from Patrick
-
Hi Everybody,
Picked from Brian's the bracket that will stiffen the assembly and hold the excentric belt tensioner, it fits between the 2 pulleys.
Only the crank end is finished, needed a bit of filing on the other end to miss some of the Ansin protuberances. I'll only finish it once the engine is assembled, at the moment, the drive sprocket is only held by its oil seal, so that doesn't garantee its position is dead right!!
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/bracketa.jpg)
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/bracketb.jpg)
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/bracketc.jpg)
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/bracketd.jpg)
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/brackete.jpg)
See you soon, Patrick
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Gorgeous! I really like the way you build. Every problem has a clean, elegant solution, but without covering the bike in billet aluminum.
Keep posting pictures :cheers:
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Very tidy nicely done dude!!
-
Patrick, check your messages.
Pete
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Looking good Patrick!
-
Hi all,
Yes, it's starting to look like a bike, not just an engine in a frame with loads missing...
Thought I would show you today where I do the built!!! The garage is about 7.5 feet wide by 30 feet long, split in 2, "storage" and "workshop"... So a bit on the small side!!!
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/garagea.jpg)
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/garageab.jpg)
I finished the rear exhaust pipe yesterday evening, went to bed at about 1am, but up early today and, sunny outside, time to wheel it out to see if it looks OK from a distance... Also fitted the race numbers.
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/aprila.jpg)
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/aprilb.jpg)
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/aprilc.jpg)
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/aprild.jpg)
Did about 1/2 of the intake manifold this morning, it's better with the new TIG torch, but not that much!!! I suppose practice makes perfect, I'll get there in the end...
See you later!!!
Patrick
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patrick,
meant to mention--
if you have a lack of fuel issue, you can machine a
float bowl extension using a float bowl gasket as a template.
we used to make them a good 1.5" wide. not sure how
close the rear wheel spokes are.
is that an s&s float bowl?
franey
-
Looking great, I just love the "old" Harley's.........Keep in mind the Tom Evans (SCTA Tech) might require you to have a cover/shield over the blower belt..............................
-
Yeah, very nice. Keep in mind at Bville, running out of fuel is common in gravity feed fuel systems. Be sure you have a very good vent on your tank and less restrictive fuel lines.
Look forward to seeing your bike on the salt. :cheers:
-
saltwheels262: is that an s&s float bowl?
Yes, good old S&S MGAL with side bowl... I will ask Tom Evans if it's OK to pressurise the fuel tank... cause room is limited for float chamber extension!!! I will also do a fuel flow rate test once my 3/8 feed pipe is installed... I need the fuel to flow somewhere around .8 to 1 litre per minute.
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/khkcarba.jpg)
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/khkcarbb.jpg)
bak189: Tom Evans (SCTA Tech) might require you to have a cover/shield over the blower belt
Even if Tom will not insist on a belt cover, I still value me left leg, so I'll make one later!!!
ol38y: Look forward to seeing your bike on the salt
I'm doing me best!!!
Ran out of TIG tungsten rods AND S/S filler rods, so worked on other things this afternoon... Got the rear wheel out to clean, did a grinding/filling job on the Ansin bearings shield since it's in the way of the belt bracket and worked on my drive ratios/piston speed/speed calcs excel spread sheet to see what's the best sprocket combination to use... Hum, too many permutations!!!
Thanks for your interest, all the very best from Patrick...
-
Patrick
I'm pretty sure Tom will require you to run a belt cover on the blower belt
Although there is nothing specific in the rule book
As for the fuel pump, why don't you run a vacuum pump off a Ducati
G
-
Harleys don't vibrate, right? If this were a BSA single, with all that rigid tubing from motor to blower, and from blower to carburetor, the motor would find someway to get away from the attachments! A rubber hose connection here and there might be a good idea.
Tom
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Hi, Koncretekid
Yes, Harley vibrate, :) ... but not in the way Brit bikes vibrate!!! I well remember a winter trip to one of these die hard rallies in the 70s as the frozen and numbed passenger of a friend's Velo Venom... :)
The plenum is already split in two and the carb manifold will be as well in due time when I know how far away the carb will be.
grumm441, what are they driven off, these Dukes fuel pumps? If it's from a battery, forget it, I haven't got one on the bike... Old Guzzi racers with side saddle tanks use to have one actuated by the swing arm, neat idea...
Patrick
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Patrick, the build looks real trick! :cheers:
All the Duke pumps I've seen have been electrical. How about a small gear driven or belt driven mechanical pump, like an Enderle or similar? Looking at your fab capabilities, I don't think making a drive for the pump would be a problem!
I've got one for a 3-71/4-71 blower, and I think you might even be able to rig a speedo cable to it and run it.
I'll send it to you, if you decide to go that route.
-
Do you have enough pressure cycling in the case to use a snowmobile (diaphragm) pump?
-
Patrick, It looks very handsome. I would definitely make a guard for the blower drive belt. I would bet money that Tom will ding you on that. Although there is nothing specific in the rules I would guess that rules 7.B.22 and 7.H.22 might be quoted. Far better to have the belt covered than to get to Bonneville and have to scramble to make a cover.
-
Do you have enough pressure cycling in the case to use a snowmobile (diaphragm) pump?
I do know pulses from the exhaust pipe will run a snowmobile diaphram carb on a 4 stroke single. Helped to prime it for starts though.
Have no idea how much pressure would build with a separate diaphram pump for the volume required for this application.
Ed
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Patrick, for battery power the drag guys use a rechargable 18v drill battery. There's also the back-up batteries used in home alarm systems. They're small and can be had for about $20 here. Just charge them between runs... Lovin your project... :cheers:
-
Thanks, guys, for pointing me in some directions I did not know of before... Will google these parts after work tonite to see what's involved, once the overtime is over... By the way, woke up early this morning and started drawing the belt guard on AutoCAD< Simple enough, will cut it to shape in alloy and bring to Brian later to do the 90 degree bends and a bit of alloy TIG welding, mine won't do that...
Frankly, I'm a bit drained at the moment, probably did too much this weekend, exhausted meself changing the rear tyre on me own plus other things...
Thanks again to OZ from GB for his import guide, I started the ball rolling yesterday, just hope there'll be no big hurdles to jump on the way to complete the paperwork trail!!!
Thank you all for your moral support and ideas,
All the very best from Patrick
-
Hi Guys,
Done a bit more, but limited meself to smaller things to recuperate a bit...
At work the other day, we were scrapping some old equipment. there were 2 vibrator motors on the powder hoppers... Thought they would come handy, so salvaged their covers...
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/washera.jpg)
The ears for the screws looked to me very much like the special washers you could buy in the early days for spreading the load on XLCH tin covers and prevent bellmouthing the screw holes but sadly now made of unobtainum...
So cut up 10 of them and a bit of filing, result!!!
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/washerb.jpg)
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/washerc.jpg)
While the rear wheel was out, cleaned both the Brembo master cylinder and the rear disc, pretty dirty after some 15 years of inaction...
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/brakea.jpg)
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/brakeb.jpg)
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/disca.jpg)
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/discb.jpg)
Same for the sprocket I'm gonna use, 38 teeth... That's the smallest one out of my collection...
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/sprocketa.jpg)
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/sprocketb.jpg)
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/sprocketc.jpg)
More in a second!!!
Cheers from Patrick
-
Hi Again!!!
Started the cable for the shut off valve, short and sweet...
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/valvea.jpg)
Found more gear at work, 2"1/2 4 bar (64psi) water flat hose, dead thin, just what I need to join the plenum bits together... Will have to check how much to derate it to see if it'll cope with the Bonneville temperatures.
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/rubbera.jpg)
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/rubberb.jpg)
Picked up from Brian's shop (he's on holiday at the moment, I wish I was as well...) my heads, they milled off the horizontal fins:
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/heada.jpg)
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/headb.jpg)
And finally for today, a rear view of the entrails where the rear wheel lives...
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/rearviewa.jpg)
It's Good Friday tomorrow, so no work, same on Monday!!! Then 3 days work and another week end with Friday and Monday off cause there's some royal wedding happening, GREAT, I should make some real progress on the engine reassembly!!!
See you all soon, Patrick
-
Have you thought about using a rear wheel that has a drum brake?.......we have found that there is always some drag with a disc-brake..............We picked up 2mph on our little 125cc. LSR bike replacing the rear wheel with one that had a drum.......................
-
Wow, Nice build! Keep up the great work and we'll see you going fast in late August. Please stop by our pit and say hello if we don't find you first. :cheers: PLC Love those Flat Heads!
-
bak189: Have you thought about using a rear wheel that has a drum brake?.......
Yes indeed, I do have a left hand side drum brake rear wheel that will fit in the altered frame:
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/21050619a.jpg)
... But it's made out of a 70s Sportster front wheel that runs on tapered roller bearings... Had a long thought about it and came to the conclusion I'd rather run the disc wheel that runs on ball bearings, it spins a lot easier than the other one... But I'll bear in mind your suggestion and see if I can increase the pads release... It's a racing Lookeed twin piston caliper, both pads will move away.
peglegcraig: we'll see you in late August
Looking forward to it!!!
Time now to head up in the garage.... Wish me luck!
All the best from Patrick
-
If you do use the disc brake.....prior to your run take a screwdriver and push the pads back/away from the disk.......However, be reminded that it will require you to push the brake pedal at least twice in order to actuate the brake................great bike....best of luck.............................................................
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Hi, bak189
I centered the rear wheel as best I could this morning and checked my caliper. If I press it all one way, loose bolts, there's 60 thou clearance. Once tightened, it's about 20 thou on the outside pad and 40 on the inside pad... Might just trim ever so slightly the bolt spacers to even the play out...
This afternoon, I made the belt guard... Have a beautiful piece of alloy but it's 3mm thick, no way I could bend or trim that with the hand tools I've got...
Had as usual a look round and found some old galvanized steel stock that trimmed my garage flat roof outside before I put a proper roof on it... I tell you, never throw anything away, you never know!!!
Wasn't quite flat, t'was bent to suit the side of the roof... Still, just about 1/4 wider than what I needed for the guard... Straightened it out, marked it, bent it on a square tube... Done it all, went to fire up the Oxy set to braze the flat bit around the circle... ran out of acetylene!!! So t'will have to wait for the finishing touch...
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/guarda.jpg) (http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/guardb.jpg)
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/guardc.jpg) (http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/guardd.jpg)
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/guarde.jpg) (http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/guardf.jpg)
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/guardg.jpg) (http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/guardh.jpg)
Have a good week end, Patrick
-
Great build!
Be careful around galvanized - zinc fumes.
http://www.anvilfire.com/iForge/tutor/safety3/index.htm
Geo
-
Looks great..................have fun at the wedding next week.........................................................
-
Looks good Patrick!
-
tfo,
make sure the thickness of belt guard
will get thru tech.
hope to see you on the salt.
in racing,
franey
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This trick works with brake calipers that have a puck pressing on one pad only and the other pad is mounted to the caliper. The caliper moves and it is not rigidly mounted to the swing arm. Simply press the caliper against the disk with your foot or knee before they flag you to the line. This pushes the puck back and the pads do not rub on the disk. As mentioned previously, it might take a pedal stroke or two to get the brake to work.
-
That 2-1/4" flat vinyl? water hose is, of course, designed for pumping water. Make sure it is compatible with gasoline.
Tom
-
Hi all,
Well, the end of a 4 day break, but I took it easy this time!!! At 4pm on Saturday, decided it was time for a break and headed to Talgarth, Wales (in the car...) where our HDRCGB 1st rally of the year took place. Just arrived there and I see one of me friends, Woody, already packing up, ready to go...
He jumps on me and shoves a good wad of cash in me hands for the project!!! Not even time to properly thank him and buying him a drink, he's on his way home... Got to say, our club magazine was out last week and there's in it a 5 pages article on the built, so the word is out that the bloody Frenchman is at it again... They though they were used to it after all these years, but I still manages to surprise them somehow...
So had a good night out, chatting away and meeting old and new friends, even saw a beautiful French girl there that lives with a Scottish lad, a noisy but OK band in the hall... Back at home at 3.30am for a bit of a kip...
Sunday... Classic Bike Show in Stafford, got to get there cause I need a few bits... Meet more people I know, even met the guy that sold me this KHK all these years ago, Terry Dobney... He's a druid and looks after a prehistoric man made mound in the south, certainly a character!!!
Found these bits:
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/cable.jpg)
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/nipples.jpg)
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/safetywire.jpg)
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/springs.jpg)
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/threadinsert.jpg)
Plus a long bit of angle alloy to make the chain guard...
So today, just messed around with "light" items...
A friend on the XL Iron Head forum, Dr Dick, did pass on his concerns about my belt drive and that's the job he does, belt drives for machinery, so I though I'd better listen to him... He was adamant an iddler was needed on the top near the small pulley for a better contact patch... Looked into the bins and came out with these 2 ball bearings. Couldn't clamp them as near as I wanted to look at the set up, but I can bring them nearer the pulley when ready... A suitably thinned down metric socket as a shaft!!!
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/newiddlera.jpg)
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/newiddlerb.jpg)
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/newiddlerc.jpg)
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/newiddlerd.jpg)
Welded, not too uggly, a nipple on the plenum for the pressure gauge pipe:
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/gaugenipple.jpg)
Bit of soldering, wired up the clip ons kill switch, 2 red wires for the magnetos, the green is the earth:
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/killswitcha.jpg)
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/killswitchb.jpg)
And lastly, done one of the fork stops:
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/forkstopa.jpg)
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/forkstopb.jpg)
It's now time for a bath cause in the middle of all that, I managed to go with Susan, my wife, to the garden centre for a few aquatic plants to colonize our pond, full of tadpoles at the moment, life keeps going on!!!
All the best from Patrick
-
More "light" bits...
Remembered to bring from work the hole cutter, so prepared the plenum for the blow off valve nipple:
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/holea.jpg)
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/holeb.jpg)
then looked at finishing the tacho drive... Had the fitting that goes on the bakelite cover, but not the extension that press fit into the top of the cam...
An old Amal carb main jet just did the trick...
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/tachdrivea.jpg)
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/tachdriveb.jpg)
2 more days at work and another long weekend...
Cheers from Patrick
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salut Patrick
super travail
j ai fait mais premier essaie hier rapport de transmission 1.78/1 il souffle 500g avec un amr500 et un moteur de 1200s
j ai un soucis quand je accélère a fond sur le dernier 1/8 de gaz le moteur régule quand je dés accélère le moteur s emballe
ma bougie est couleur chocolat tu pense que ca peut venir du plenum trop petit?
a+ bubuche
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Your blow off valve looks as small as the one Saltcracker Lars had on his blower, (INDIAN 741 Supercharged...See you in 2011, pg42)
His blowercase cracked most probably beacuse the blow off valve was too small, are'nt you making the same mistake as he did? The experience shared by Queeziryder of using a 2x2" milk carton burst plate made sense. You might not need that large and it hasn't to be round, but can be a formed as a slit along the intake in order to have enough area. A detonation in the intake is spiky like a hammerblow and the time to vent it is in milliseconds.
-
Thanks Charlie for your concerns.
Went to check your post on Lars' thread...
I have sent a email just now to Neil "Queeziryder" to talk it through with him...
My design is certainly not set in stone, so I do welcome suggestions and criticisms that will improve the safety of the engine, I've only got one!!!
I was in another way rumaging about the same problem one evening but viewed from another angle: the Fairbanks Morse magnetos I'm using both have the typical V Twin offset 2 lobes on them (small lobe, front cylinder, then 315 degrees, big lobe, rear cylinder, 405 degrees to complete 2 revs, 720 degrees) and I was thinking I do not want at all the wasted spark that will occur every 2 revs if it happens any time during or after the overlap... I plotted it all on AutoCAD.
If I was to use the big lobe for the rear cylinder mag firing, the wasted spark would happen slightly after TDC during the overlap, a good chance to ignite the plenum...
But by using the small lobe for the rear and 33 degrees advance, wasted spark will happen 78 degrees before TDC on the next exhaust stroke, no threat there and same on the front pot...
So no need to grind off lobes on the magnetos which would be a bit radical!!!
Cheers from Patrick
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Youre welcome Patrick :-D Great reserach on the magneto, I'll be certainly going to use that!
-
Hi, hope you've got as much sun as we do here this month!!!
Charlie 101, Neil's on holiday, he'll talk to me next Tuesday... In the meantime, back to AutoCAD... I 1st drawn a 2" one, but it looked a bit big for my plenum, then a 1"3/4 one:
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/burstplatebody.jpg)
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/burstplatecover.jpg)
On holiday, Brian busted his Achilly's tendon, so he's in plaster... Went to his home yesterday to sort his electric gate, hard at work for a few hours while his wife watched that wedding in London...
In the end we had to make one good motor out of 2 busted ones but it worked... He'll be waiting after work on Tuesday so I'll bring more drawings for more bits to do, plus a new supply of Argon to finish my welding... Never ending this game!!!
Today, did the 2 plug inserts on the heads (used the bench drill for proper location, not for driving it in!!!):
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/inserta.jpg)
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/insertb.jpg)
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/insertc.jpg)
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/insertd.jpg)
Sorted my rear brake, new fluid, flushed, seems OK so far...
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/bremboc.jpg)
And put a few more wires in for the kill switches...
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/wiringa.jpg)
See you all soon, Patrick
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looking good, patrick.
franey
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Loving it! :cheers:
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:-D Thanks guys!!! :-D
Charlie 101, here're the plottings for the sparks on AutoCAD... Might not show too well on your screen with the autoresizing this site does, but if you save it it should show OK...
Firing with dedicated lobes, small for front, big for rear, anticipated 33 degrees advance:
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/smallandbiglobefiring.jpg)
Wasted spark occur 78 degrees before TDC on the front cylinder, but 12 degrees after TDC during the overlap on the rear cylinder... DANGER!!!!
Firing with small lobe only:
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/smalllobefiring.jpg)
Both front and rear wasted sparks occur at 78 degrees before TDC during the exhaust stroke... SAFE!!!! Don't know if Indians have the typical H-D wasted spark, but worth thinking about... Used to own a 42 degree Dixie magneto off a Powerplus in my youth, but can't remember if it had a dizzy on it??? Also had a 45 degree Dixie, that was for some French bike with a Swiss V Twin MAG engine in it, during WW1, they couldn't get the Bosch mags!!!
Think I'll pull out the engine tomorrow, it's about time I start its reassembly...
All the best from Patrick
-
Hi all,
Koncretekid was wondering if my blue thin water hose would be OK with methanol on the plenum joint... Did a soak test today...
Just put a strip in a tobacco tin full of methanol:
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/methtest0h.jpg)
3 hours later, a bit hardened and some distortion:
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/methtest3h.jpg)
5 hours later, some more:
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/methtest5h.jpg)
Think it'll be OK on the day... I've let it soak overnight, don't think it'll get any worse...
More cabling, throttle:
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/tcablea.jpg)
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/tcableb.jpg)
For the clutch one, rotated the worm 120 degree so I can use a cable coming from the top of the cover. The std arrangement has the outer ending underneath the timing cover, a bit of a pain if one has to pull out the timing cover often...
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/ccablea.jpg)
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/ccableb.jpg)
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/ccablecc.jpg)
Will finish with olives on lever ends when I find some MAP gas to silversolder them on...
See you around, Patrick
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Patrick use Samco hose. We have used the same tubing for the last 6 years & always checked it at the end of the race season, on our turbo alcohol efi funnybike. We have never had a problem with there product, check out www.samcosport.com
Its a long way go to the salt to get caught out using an inferior product, so hope this helps you out.
Regards
Dave, Ozco Racing
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Yes, Buzz, I'd dearly love to use proper hose, but I've got less than a 1/4" clearance between the plenum and the rear cylinder, hence the need for a dead thin hose!!!
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/50.jpg)
Another good and high spirited day in the garage, removed the empty engine from the frame, good cleaning all round and time to do a few photos of various stuff in more detail...
Supercharger bracket, nice job from Brian...
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/spaceraa.jpg)
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/spacerbb.jpg)
Trimming I had to do on the Ansin stamped tin cover:
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/ansinaa.jpg)
View down the drive bearing bore showing spacer and seal:
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/bearingcc.jpg)
Alloy engine front plates, the right one is trimmed to suit the frame and engine offset, the K and Sporty are always offset to the left!!!
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/platesaa.jpg)
Panic Jeff was worried about my cylinder studs not being long enough... Well, they are, just about 1/8th short of full lenght:
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/studsaa.jpg)
2 views of the added bearing/seal holder on the tin primary cover, had to trim the back a bit to leave room for the inspection access cover:
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/bearinga.jpg)
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/bearingbb.jpg)
The mainshaft sprocket with the pulley holder attached, had to trim the 2 screws slightly, they were rubbing on the inner ring shown above:
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/driveaa.jpg)
Now left with a big pile of shinny stuff ready for assembling!!!
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/partsaa.jpg)
A few more nights and the end will be near!!!
All the best from Patrick
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Hi everybody,
Pick up from Brian's the 1"3/4 burst plate, looks very nice, just needs some filing to suit the plenum curve, then welding...
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/burstplatea.jpg)
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/burstplateb.jpg)
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/burstplatec.jpg)
And 4 spacers for the 3/4" reach race plugs, heads only have a 1/2" thread...
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/spacera.jpg)
Looks like another busy weekend ahead...
Cheers from Patrick
-
For heat transfer I think you would be better off using copper for the plug spacers.
-
Patrick,
You may want to check out Hunts magneto site for a modified kit which is made for high compression or blown motors. Not sure exactly what they do, but it may simplify the ignition system using only one magneto. It's the last item on page 2.
http://huntmagnetos.com/xcart/home.php?cat=4&sort=orderby&sort_direction=0&page=2
-
You really are pullin the stops out it all looks real good!
let me know how the documentation side of things goes and any problems,
you have my no if there is anything i can do to help.
Cheers Oz
-
Hi everybody,
jdincau: using copper for the plug spacers
Did not want something that will compress too much and stick to a bad or dead sparkplug, we'll see when it actually runs...
Vinsky: modified kit which is made for high compression or blown motors
Must be a single fire kit based on the last XRs Fairbanks Morse, around 1980. Used to have bits for that conversion. Not so sure it's that good since a well proven old timer trick to revive a dying magneto is to cut the plug wire in the middle, strip a bit on each side and insert a bakelite button in the circuit to force the spark to jump across it, this produces a better spark. So me think 2 spark plugs on one coil isn't that bad???
Twin magnetos will also allow me a degree of change between front and back if needed.
OZ: let me know how the documentation side of things goes
The EPA man is a bit concerned, told me me bike don't look like a salt flat racer, wanted to know all the built details blablabla... Haven't received the race exemption yet!!! I'll give him another week before going back to him...
Did you use a custom broker to clear the USA customs? The DOT man pointed to me to one in San Francisco that seems OK and knows the procedures... but with a fee!!!
Did the bottom end this week end, took my time to make sure it's all decent...
Started by making a small alloy ring to reinforce one of the Torrington needle bearings, a known weak point in these trannies where the speedo drive normally sits, hence not very thick and hanging over somewhat. These cases, 55 years old, don't even have a crack there,( :-D There are others elsewhere as you can see :-D) but prevention is better than disaster...
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/countershafta.jpg)
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/countershaftb.jpg)
Gear box shafts end play... Countershaft is hard to get to, fitted the cases without the main shaft, fit washers until it's just tight by checking/poking through the mainshaft hole, then delete a 6 thou thick one for about 6 thou end play...
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/endplaya.jpg)
Mainshaft is easy, you can use a dial... 6 thou as well:
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/endplayb.jpg)
Split the crank on a piece of hard wood to check rollers and pins, it'll do nicely, reassemble and trued, 2 thou on the wheels periphery:
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/rodsa.jpg)
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/cranka.jpg)
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/crankb.jpg)
Cleaned all the bolts, ready to close the cases!!!
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/readya.jpg)
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/readyb.jpg)
Little bit of showing off, safety wire on the drain plugs!!!
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/wirea.jpg)
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/wireb.jpg)
So long, Patrick
-
about the epa man-- I would think about showing this build diary.
or most of it , anyway.
franey
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Hi patrick
our shippers had there own depot in Houston so we shiped to there and they road freighted the bike to Denver for us,they were very expencive but at the time and because of the sponsors going bust we didnt have an option.
Depending on which shippers you use they may have there own clearing facility,if not a delivery address whether it be residential or industrial might help I am sure there must be someone on the site which lives in that area that might help.
As long as the Carnet is sorted I dont think clearing the bike through customs will be too much of a problem.
As with the EPA you did state the lack of lights/side or centre stand/range of fuel tank/steering stops etc, as this is what makes it unsuitable for road use......A salt racer!! or alternatively all of a sudden by some strange quirk the fuel could be alcohol! A salt racer most definatley!
theres more than one way to skin a cat.
Cheers Oz
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Hi OZ, Hi Everybody,
I've got an address in the States, my friend Jim Haubert in Winslow, Arizona, just need to weight up all the options and the easier way for Jim to pick up the crate or have it delivered at his workshop door...
New shinny bits from Brian, picked up this afternoon.
More substantial pulley guard, in 5mm thick duraluminium:
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/guardalloyaa.jpg)
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/guardalloybb.jpg)
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/guardalloycc.jpg)
And the Ansin outlet, trimmed to bring back flat after my too hot welding passes!!!
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/outletaa.jpg)
More tomorrow!!!
All the best from Patrick
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Hi,
Hum, too many distractions this weekend so did not do as much as I wanted...
Shimming out in the cams cavity... Had a small rubbing issue with cam 2, rear inlet, now sorted...
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/cam2.jpg)
Spaced out as well cam 3, front inlet:
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/cam3.jpg)
Both inlets and exhaust cams are ground at an angle... All the valves are tilted towards the cylinders... Most noticeable on the exhaust ones:
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/cam1.jpg)
The inlet tilt is hardly noticeable, about 1 degree I guess...
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/cam2a.jpg)
Also reploted all the cam timing with one tooth advance on the exhausts:
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/frcyl.jpg)
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/rrcyl.jpg)
Timing is a bit out from the factory, have to worry what tolerances they had when they ground them!!!
Front overlap is now 30 + 18 = 48 degrees while rear overlap is 30 + 8 = 38 degrees...
Cheers from Patrick
-
Hi all,
Feels like an eternity since I last posted... Still progressing along, but hit a few problems and spent time to resolve them, like some 4 hours spent on my clutch cable...
Oil pump done and dusted:
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/oilpumpa.jpg)
Valves and cylinders lapped and fitted:
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/valvea.jpg)
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/valveb.jpg)
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/lappinga.jpg)
Received my spring loaded stainless steel clamps, couldn't wait to try them!!!
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/clampa.jpg)
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/clampb.jpg)
Went to see Brian again, for skimming the biggest sprocket I had, 24 teeth, so I can use 520 chain rather than the wider 530, plus made the little tool to tighten the nut, bit of chain and a bolt with a pin... Required a bit of trimming on the sprocket cover and grinding down the bottom locating dowel pin... Anything bigger than 24 teeth won't fit under the cover...
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/sprocka.jpg)
The Ansin is on the bike now, so I finished the top end of the spacer and fitted the extra iddler on top:
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/ansind.jpg)
Normal oil fill/level screw is now on top, so made another one that fit on the cover, plus a fitting on top for a breather pipe:
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/ansine.jpg)
Lick of silver paint on the tin cover and oil tank, plus installed the chain guard...
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/tincovera.jpg)
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/painta.jpg)
This weekend is another long one, Monday off, so 2 more days of heavy grafting, the end of the tunnel is near...
All the best from Patrick
-
and the best to you.
franey
-
Owl............I've been following with interest...........Nice plan and very nice workmanship........hope to see you on the Salt.
-
Thanks, lads,
1st thing this morning, started the cover for the belt, old 3mm thick alloy sheet
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/guardhh.jpg)
Jigsaw...
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/guardii.jpg)
A few screws, spit and polish...
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/guardjj.jpg)
Engine is now finished, set up valve plays, timed the magnetos, settled at 35 degrees advance to start with. Been lucky with the back cylinder and using the small front lobe to fire, did not need to redrill the base. Had to grind a bit of the spacer to clear the plenum and clips. Heads on with lick of silver paint as a gasket, "torqued" 3 times at 1/2 hour intervals, will do the last one tomorow (there's no torque values available for the K Model, it's all "feel by hand"...)
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/guardkk.jpg)
Had a sit down next to the bike for a smoke and though again about water injection... Suddenly though I could use 2 Linkert DC float chambers back to back to make a bigger one... Had a rumage in the boxes, found 2 usable ones, will investigate further tomorrow... It's been a looong day...
All the best from Patrick
-
Beautiful!! Can't wait to see it.
:cheers:
-
salut patrick
ton projet ce concrétise
tu as fait un super taff
félicitations
si tu pouvais me faire le même couvre courroie et fixation compresseur que toi moyennant finance bien sur ca serait super
je suis impatient de voir ton bolide en action
encore bravo
eric
-
...
Did you use a custom broker to clear the USA customs?
The shipping company that send over my bike did the Carnet paperwork etc.
but hooked me up with this custom broker in Utah:
High Desert Chb (http://www.highdesertchb.com/)
I paid ( as I recall it ) around 80$US.
They did all the custom clearing.
On arrival in salt Lake City I went to the shipping companys store house with my paperwork
and had the bike in 5 minutes.
All the best to ya' !
-
Octane,
Man that sounds easy peasey.
Hope to see you this year.
Girl power as well.
Rocky
-
Thanks for the link, Octane, I'll give them a go later...
So, looked again at my pile of DC Linkert bits and the scheme took shape...
The tee bit is the bottom part of the DC iddle air bleed, external, just cut down, drilled and tapped 1/4 UNF it to fit the needle bit which is the DC high speed adjustable jet. Smaller tap on the other end to screw in a brass screw with a 1.9mm hole in it where the needle gonna sit and give me some adjustment.
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/wateraa.jpg)
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/waterbb.jpg)
Slightly underdrilled the carb body and pressed the assembly in, right in the middle of the venturi:
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/waterdd.jpg)
I even found a drag racing spacer for the float chambers, that made it easy to join them...
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/watercc.jpg)
Suspended from the seat cowl, not just pipes, there're rods in there, set the level so it's just below the end of the little brass tube on the tee piece. I will need a jet in the clear pipe, another Patrick's speciality, bit of brass rod with a hole in it!!!
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/wateree.jpg)
That's all for now, back in the garage, it's only 4.30pm here!!! Patrick
-
Octane,
Man that sounds easy peasey.
Yep.....that was the easy part.
LOTS of paperwork before I finally got to that point.
Here's a screen-shot of my paperwork files
involved in getting there
(http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x214/octane98/115-1.jpg)
Hope to see you this year..
Thanks...and likewise !
-
Hi Everybody,
!!! I'm getting dangerously close to finishing now!!! Another fruitful weekend...
What I hope will be the last bits from Brian, shafts, washers and screws for the 2 iddlers:
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/bearingaa.jpg)
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/bearingbb.jpg)
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/bearingcc.jpg)
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/bearingdd.jpg)
Also did 2 brackets for the exhaust pipes:
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/brackettt.jpg)
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/bracketuu.jpg)
Bit of engine turning on the belt cover...
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/coverff.jpg)
Spent quite a bit of time on the lanyard that gonna close the fuel valve and kill the ignition, works very well. 1st one was not quite right, so did the second one better...
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/lanyardaa.jpg)
Oil lines and tacho rubber mounting:
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/oilaa.jpg)
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/tachoaa.jpg)
And now, Sunday, late, a nearly finished bike!!!
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/khkaa.jpg)
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/khkbb.jpg)
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/khkcc.jpg)
Just need to bring the pipe benders from work tomorrow to do the fuel and the pressure gauge lines...
Next bit should be fun :wink:, starting and tuning...
All the best from Patrick
-
Je sacrer my favorite K model!
-
Patrick,
I have done the .040 lock wire hose clamp a number of times but I am not sure that tech will let them through inspection. (other comments?) Do the tubes have beads on their ends? You may be ahead to go with standard hose clamps. As Mike Donovan always said, "Never a drip with a Jubilee clip" I think that has a British meaning.
Beautiful build.
Rex
-
salut patrick
ca sent la mise en route c est super
bon après il y a la mise au point mais déjà quand ca démarre et que ca tien le ralenti c est bon signe
j attend la petite vidéo qui va bien
ps:encore bravo pour ton project
a+eric
-
Rex: You may be ahead to go with standard hose clamps.
OK :-D
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/clampl.jpg)
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/clampm.jpg)
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/clampn.jpg)
Also finished the fuel and pressure gauge lines...
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/fuellinef.jpg)
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/fuellineg.jpg)
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/fuellineh.jpg)
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/fuellinei.jpg)
Will bring the stop watch from work to do a "drop test" and see how much fuel I can pass unassisted through this 3/8th line...
Patrick
-
Congratiulations !!!! Patrick for a brilliant job !
One thing though:
I'm terribly worried about this
.... I've got less than a 1/4" clearance between the plenum and the rear cylinder, hence the need for a dead thin hose!!!
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/50.jpg)
A "dead thin" water-hose running at a distance of "..less than 1/4".." to the cylinder.
Naaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa.
It's a flathead , it's blown , it's running at full RPM...it will get seeeriously hot.
OK, the alchohol will cool things somewhat, but still....
and the minute you stop the engine I'd bet the hose will melt in an instant.
With all the rules about "..fire sleves must cover all fuel lines to include un-valved fuel and gas lines.."
I think you'd have a hard time passing tech. inspection with this.
I know the rule isn't strictly for this but I would hate to see you
"all dressed up and no-where to go" at Bonneville.
Please check with tech. before you go.
Best of luck to you !!!
-
Thanks, Bubuche and Octane for the compliments...
Lars, I see where you're coming from about the hose!!!
It's not a standard water hose... I haven't actually checked what's it's made of, but it's not rubber or PVC based... We use it in the petro-chemical industry as chemical containment for other pipes that run inside it, in case the inner pipes break or leak... Same sort of pipe the fire brigade uses, so it must be OK with heat!!!
Anyway, after reading your concerns, I borrowed my wife's hair drier and went in the garage, heated a piece of it for about 10mn at about 1/4" distance, it got very hot, couldn't touch it, but it stayed the same, it does look tough!!! I'll check at work tomorrow the markings on it, before, I was only interested in its pressure rating, it's 4 bar, approx 64 psi...
See you around, Patrick
-
Patrick,
I have done the .040 lock wire hose clamp a number of times but I am not sure that tech will let them through inspection. (other comments?) Do the tubes have beads on their ends? You may be ahead to go with standard hose clamps. As Mike Donovan always said, "Never a drip with a Jubilee clip" I think that has a British meaning.
Beautiful build.
Rex
Patrick
I was about to pipe in with a similar comment
Download the tech inspection form
http://www.scta-bni.org/pdf/2011%20Inspection%20Motorcycle%20back.pdf
Go thru the listed items on the first page
It's either yes or no, there are no grey areas
This will make it easier when you get to tech and you should have no surprises
Nice build
G
-
Hi All,
Finally put some methanol in the tank 2 days ago and did a "flow test"... It flowed about 6 liters in just over 5mn through the 4mm ID drain hose on the bottom of the S&S carburettor... Then dismantled the front wheel to have it balanced and finished/redone small items and soldered a few wires for the kill switches.
So it just need the oil tank filling and that's about it...
Now looking for a van to start it somewhere quiet, can't really do it at home, too many elderly neighbours!!!
So today, after too long in the dark garage, the bike saw the light of day for a few photos and I can now concentrate on the paperwork, getting a crate etc...
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/finisheda.jpg)
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/finishedb.jpg)
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/finishedc.jpg)
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/finishedd.jpg)
Hopefully, a starting update this coming Saturday...
All the best from Patrick
PS... Also received today my 2 spare sprockets for the rear wheel AND the entry confirmation from the SCTA Whooppeee!!!
-
Hi everybody,
Nearly two weeks since the last post in which I went from near dispair to elation...
It started last Saturday!!! Brian came to my home to pick up the bike and go to his factory... Gordon was there as well...
The bike did sputter and cough but not much else...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l83FVr7wlVo
Then major mathanol leak on the carb, about an hour to fix that!!! Then no more sparks on the front cylinder and we noticed the belt just about to jump off the Ansin pulley, so called it a day!!!
On the plus side on that day, the engine turned over OK, no strange noises and nothing came loose to land on the floor...
Back at base... Remeasured everything around the ansin for a day and discovered the Ansin bracket was no more square, so dismantled everything to have it milled a bit at Brian's in the week. Followed 3 nights of hard graft to set it all up again.
My S&S MGAL did not have the choke fitted cause I broke it some years back. Luckily, I still had the bits so repaired it, thinking a bit of choke might help starting...
Sorted the magnetos, looked like a case of NOS dead condensers, so just fitted old ones I had in the draws, hurray, big blue sparks straight across the collector springs... reassemble, retime... More hours...
So this Saturday, back at Brian's for another go... The bike started straightaway, but a badly set clutch meant neutral was VERY elusive!!! More tuning on the spot... We managed about 6 or 7 starts and the bike now sound dead crisp, RESULT!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lI7luKzeojs
Gordon was on camera duty and seems to think the camera will focus automatically on the subject from any angles...
I'll upload the rest tomorrow, or rather later today, it's 1.30am here right now!!!
A very happy and elated Patrick!!!
-
salut
c est cool patrick elle a toussé je suis ton projet avec attention car j adore tous ce qui a un compresseur
c est maintenant qu une longue mise au point commence
a titre d info pour une pression de 500 gramme sur mon compresseur j ai augmenter mon ralentit de 2.5 point a 5 point
et pour le principal j ai augmenter de 60 a 70 point pour que ca fonctionne a peu prés j ai regler avec un mano air fuel meter et une sonde lamda
cet automne je la passe au banc dyno pour peaufiner les réglages
encore bravo
a+ bubuche
-
Thanks, Bubuche!!!
3rd start up...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P1Mr9kfB_Oc
4th start up...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xPNz1Zh2UUo
Patrick
-
encore bravo
Moi, je dit BRAVO aussi !
-
:cheers: :cheers:Congratulations, we will look for you in the pits.
-
Patrick, invite your elderly neighbors over to watch you start the bike. It is surprising. They often love that type of thing. Many raced or hot-rodded in their youth.
-
Hi, Speed Demons,
Well, the point of no return has been reached today...
Bike is now crated and ready to go... Will be picked up later in the week and fly to Phoenix, Arizona via Heathrow in London GB. My friend Jim Haubert will collect it there and wait for me and my wife to arrive around the 8th of August...
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/cratec.jpg)
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/crated.jpg)
We nearly used 2 gallons of methanol with various starts up to the middle of last week... Sounds like a demented 2 stroke and I like the whine of the supercharger...
I booked an afternoon on a rolling dyno... Sadly, said dyno did not have enough umph to start the bike from cold, just spinning too slow... In fact so slow that backfires did occur and the burst plate proved itself with some mighty bangs right in my ears, gone deaf for 2 or 3 days!!!
I like to thank here all of you here that freely gave advise to this novice and I just hope I understood right, that it hasn't fallen on deaf ears and that the bike will run OK... And also a big thanks to the members of our H-DRCG.B club that gave plenty despite harsh economics conditions, in all they raise £1510.00 which will go a long way to help me get to Bonneville.
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/cratea.jpg)
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/crateb.jpg)
So, this is the end of this diary, I hope you've enjoyed it as much as I enjoyed building this Nth version of my trusty KHK and writing about it,
SEE YOU THERE OR BE SQUARE!!!
Patrick
-
I'll be square and watching you on the web.
good luck.
franey
-
I look forward to shaking your hand sir!
-
All the best luck to you Patrick !
Looking forward to see you there.
I hope I'm wrong, but one little ridiculous last detail;
when I was shipping my bike the shipping company told
me I couldn't use a wooden crate unless the wood was
in compliance with this rule ( click: ) ISPM 15 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISPM_15)
As I said: I hope this will not be a problem for your shipment
but it would be horrible if your crate stranded before getting
into the USA because of this.
[EDIT: looking closer at your second picture I do believe I see the certification marks]
-
Good luck Patrick!
-
Octane: it would be horrible if your crate stranded before getting
into the USA
It's OK and heat treated wood!!! The place where I work uses loads of these to air freight stuff all over the world, so ordered my own from the same place!!!
See you all there in about a month time!!!
I haven't got any butterflies yet but I'm sure they'll come in due time...
Patrick
-
Octane: it would be horrible if your crate stranded before getting
into the USA
It's OK and heat treated wood!!! The place where I work uses loads of these to air freight stuff all over the world, so ordered my own from the same place!!!
OK, great !
See you all there in about a month time!!!
I haven't got any butterflies yet but I'm sure they'll come in due time...
If you don't get 'em at the start-line waiting for the GO-signal
there's something wrong with you
.-)
.
-
:cheers:
Good news from Jim today,
Jim went up to Phoenix Airport yesterday to collect the crate, it's now safe and sound in his workshop!!!
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/inthestatesa.jpg)
(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/inthestatesb.jpg)
1st time since 1980 that this KHK is on USA soil!!!
Another 2 weeks before we go, can't wait!!!
Patrick
-
Patrick,
When you arrive at Bonneville, you will find you have a couple hundred friends you didn't know you had. Hope to see you at BUB.
Tom
-
Good luck Patrick
PM sent
-
Patrick..look me up at pre-stage at Bub.
I'm the old fat guy with a 'Bob' name tag so I don't forget who I am.
Bob
-
Hey, Patrick or anyone on the salt, can we get some info. on how the FrenchOwl is going?
Good Luck Patrick.....
Graham and you mate Richard (Smithy Garage Sandbach) Currently in Aus!! :cheers:
-
Hey Bob ... that could be any one of us ... make sure you have the name tag.
-
Some folks here have been asking about Patrick and how he was doing.
I'm afraid I have some rather sad news for you.
He passed tech.
He did his rookie run, doing real well.
As i recall it , it was around 110 mph.
Next run he has a back-fire that burst the safety burst-panel.
The opening points up-wards.
Flames shoot up and burns his arm.
He tries to stop the flames by putting palm of his hand on the opening
left by the burst panel and burns the palm of his hand rather badly.
I saw him right after they treated him in the ambulance.
He was all smiling and laughing and in good mood.
He is a wonderful guy. You just can't help feeling he lifts your spirit
when you meet him....even it that situation.
His friend took him to the hospital right after to have it properly looked at.
Patrick , my man: please get well soon.
I really really really hope they could do some magic at the hospital
so you'll have a chance to run again today.
-
Thanks for the report.........and good healing to Patrick..........It could have been worse.
-
Hope the best for Patrick, I'm real glad to see his K Model in the mix on this side of the water.
-
sorry to hear that, get well patrick.
-
Oh, that's not good, :-(
But good to hear that Patrick is basically OK....
Thanks Lars for fitting this in for us, especially given your big morning!
Well done Lars
and Get well soon Patrick! We are thinking about you down here in Aus!
Graham & Richard....
-
Hi Good Speed Freaks!!!
No, no chance to get another run today, I'm carrying a second degree burn blister the size of a potato on my left palm... That will take a few weeks to heal...
Still, I achieved my dream, had a good rookie run of 107mph and a bit, only lost one 3mm screw on the bike, did not break a thing...
Best bit was to get prepared and get here with my wife Susan, my friends Jim and Judy Haubert and get to know them a bit more than just email exchange, also met a bunch of real enthusiast and builders than make one think all is not lost in this world of instant gratification and 5mn memory span.
It was good to see Lars/Octane and his good friend Nortonist, they always had a smile on their faces, despite adversity and whatever the salt throws back at you...
So we're all packed this evening, one last night in Wendower and going South tomorrow for a few more days visiting this country. Everybody we met was most helpful and enthusiastic about our trip...
See you around!!! Patrick
-
Well, Patrick, it is nice to hear that you are OK. The memories are irreplaceable. Have a good time seeing the country with your wife and friends. - Bo
-
Patrick,
It's been a real treat watching your build diary and seeing how much you have done with so little. You are real inspiration, wish I could have seen your run. Hopefully it won't be your last time on the Salt.
Enjoy the rest of your visit with your many fans and our beautiful country.
John
-
Best bit was to get prepared and get here with my wife Susan, my friends Jim and Judy Haubert and get to know them a bit more than just email exchange, also met a bunch of real enthusiast and builders than make one think all is not lost in this world of instant gratification and 5mn memory span.
Too right Patrick memorys at Bonneville are a hard thing to come buy it takes perciverance ingenuity and a dogged determination to get there, Well done and you have a bit of a trophy on one of your hands (hope it heals soon) a story to tell in the pub and proof!!
Hope you didnt get any salt in the wound you could get a fever from it
Well done Oz