Landracing Forum
El Mirage => El Mirage General Chat => Topic started by: RIFLEMAN on September 11, 2010, 03:46:35 AM
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I bought a set of these. Van says they're legal. Killer price.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220463385528&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT
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that looks like a great price and I saw several reports of riders using those at speedweek and they were very happy with them.
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Mike,
Good write-up here: http://www.roadracingworld.com/news/article/?article=36200 (http://www.roadracingworld.com/news/article/?article=36200)
Does SCTA mandate tire brands/models such as the BT-003RS?
AMA/BUB is pretty flexible as regards tire choices:
2.Q. TIRES
It is recommended that tires are rated for the appropriate speeds
and, use is at the sole discretion of the participant. The rider has
the sole responsibility of inspecting the condition of the tire before
and after each run.
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....pot...kettle...irony...
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....pot...kettle...irony...
Joe..
Exactly... :mrgreen:
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this from a guy who when asked what tires he would recommend would not say anything.
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This Racer ran 252, 248, 242, 240, 235 and 232 mph with an SCTA approved tire and will again run an SCTA approved tire next month as well..you want to see my tire..Send me your email and I will take a picture on my BST rear wheel..please do not post it as it is a secret... :roll:
PM me your email as I am certain I do not have it.
If not come out and see for yourself next month as a racer I will again be there...when do you race next..or even the last time you raced ..?
Yes I know you don't race however you seem to want to have a say so for the SCTA rules yet I have never see you at once of those events.
Did you submit a rules change request before the deadline the other day?
I doubt you did however I know you are very concerned for the racers you support/sponsor and I expect that however if you don't have racers at these events why make a bunch of comments on a BB that does nothing to further LSR racing and the safety of the riders/racers.
Papi set a PP record today on the tires the SCTA approved for him today as well.
Congrats to Papi..
J
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this from a guy who when asked what tires he would recommend would not say anything.
Try the ignore feature. Works wonderfully.
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this from a guy who when asked what tires he would recommend would not say anything.
Try the ignore feature. Works wonderfully.
To bad my post was directed at a non racer and not you... :roll:
Please ignore me, I like the non attention :evil:
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Mike,
Good write-up here: http://www.roadracingworld.com/news/article/?article=36200 (http://www.roadracingworld.com/news/article/?article=36200)
Does SCTA mandate tire brands/models such as the BT-003RS?
AMA/BUB is pretty flexible as regards tire choices:
2.Q. TIRES
It is recommended that tires are rated for the appropriate speeds
and, use is at the sole discretion of the participant. The rider has
the sole responsibility of inspecting the condition of the tire before
and after each run.
Things changed at the beginning of the year and bikes running in classes wth records over 200mph must run a so-called 'racing' tire. Since the motorcycle tire industry hasn't seen it fit to produce tires designed for speeds over 188mph(ZR rated with a W suffix)or a LSR specific tire and the bike bikes are now hitting "Ludicrous Speed",it has been decided that the best course of action is to require the use of D.O.T. legal tires that are homologated for roadracing use. Slower bikes can run regular street tires as long as the speed rating is higher than the record in their class and that class record is under 200mph.
There is a wonderful 20 something page thread on this site discussing the decision(took almost 25 pages to get a straight answer outta the decision makers). Makes fascinating reading and really shows what a dysfunctional little group we are.
As your group will most likely be running at speeds under 125mph,any of the major scooter tire mfg's wares ought to do just fine. If I remember correctly,the bottom of the scale is a T rated tire and thats good for I think 70mph(please correct me if I'm wrong anybody). Bridgestone,Dunlop and Michelin all make scooter tires that look like nothing more than scaled down versions of their motorcycle tires. IMHO I would stay away from the discount Chinese tires. If the performance of Shinko's competition motorcycle tires in our type of venue are any indication of Chinese quality,I know I wouldn't trust them or any other tire out of there.
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Shinko tires are bad on LSR bikes? A lot of our drag racer friends run them with very good results. What have you seen go wrong with Shinko tires on LSR bikes?
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Dan,
Don't let anyone run them unless the speeds are very very low..
J
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what happens to them? Tread seperation? Cords go bad?
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Several people have tried them and they have blistered faster than most tires..what works in a 9 second run may not in a 29 second run.
I think Don P ate a tire or two pretty quickly, they are a very soft DOT street/race/drag tire.
J
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That makes perfect sense. The drag racers use them because they are indeed quite soft which is great for traction on pavement but obviously not so good for LSR racing. Thanks for the insight.
BTW John and Joe
I respect and admire both of you very much. Your accomplishments in Motorcycle LSR racing are something most of us can only dream to emulate some day. Just wish you both could try to be a little more helpful instead of argumentative on these forums. We are all entitled to our opinions. But when someone does not agree with you instead of just friendly banter you both have this habit of going on the attack. A lot of times you are right but instead of a constructive argument where you show the facts to prove you are right you go and put the person down. This does nothing to enhance the forum or the sport.
Whether you like it or not, just like sports stars, you are held to a high standard by the accomplishments you both have made. Be good ambassadors of the sport and keep it friendly. Is that too much to ask?
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It appears this tire fiasco has a happy ending. No one got hurt and our insurance rates did not go up. We know what tires will work and how to use them.
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nrhs..big congrats on your shops success's
..i cant speak for john at all...but if you look at the banter...i try to
.... im supporting scta and its decision making....when there is dialogue that seems misguided...
ie when you ask questions in the tone shown in shinko thread ya get a decent response...when its
prefaced with scta are idiots tone it can receive a different demeanor from some...
the tire situation is evolving.....
many of us are reluctant to say this or that must be used, when application
can be so variable ie end user variability....
i submitted a tire rule change for 2011 advocating ability to use zr dot spec radials...
which is in line with my recommendation last year advocating keeping zr radials for speeds
over 250...
BUT i also know that i likely dont have the best knowledge of tires just because i run
them...and am open to others expertise....ie zr race spec "may" be the best tire....
just dont know for sure, which is why i ran goodyear lsr.....will be trying zr race spec as a tire test if weather holds...and likely also trying lsr tires again...those available today and hopefully
others when and if available down the road....
as far as ambassadors...effective might be a goal...charles barkely could be considered effective..right john..?.....
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Thanks for all you do Joe. You are an inspiration to many of us!
Did I really say the SCTA were idiots? I don't believe I said that but if I did that was a bad thing in which I let emotions get the best of me and I apologize. When folks explined further the behind the scenes things the SCTA was doing about the tire situation I was much more impressed. I let my first impressions cloud what it seems was really happening. For that I apologize to all involved.
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NHRS - John N. is correct about the Shinko tire. I thought a Shinko would be a great idea because drag racers go way over 200 and do burnouts on them too. Bad idea. After the very first run of the meet the tire tread was SHREDDED to little pieces. And did some fender damage too. At least the carcass held together and it did not blow. That was a very expensive lesson. And could have been dangerous.
Don
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I currently have the Shinkos on our Buell blast and they have worked well but that is a bike that can go about 130 mph max speed.
I will make sure I do not put them on our next build which should be a lot faster. Thanks for the heads up on them.
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I bought a set of these. Van says they're legal. Killer price.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220463385528&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT
The BT003RS are great tires. We are using the BT003 Race Only with Type 2 Compund on the rear. I like them the best so far on the big bike, but there is no denying all the BT003 series is a damn good tire. I am going off the Michelin Slick Front to the BT003 Slick front for WF. They have two different styles and compounds we will run to see if it is comparable to the Michelin Slick Front we like. However, we will stick with the Michelin on the little 600 bike. No issues there since it tops at just over 150.
If you guys are interested in a bulk BT003 order, let me know. I just bought several sets for our 3 big bikes and got a great price from our Bridgestone Disti. I think we can do better if we bought on one order.
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I bought a set of these. Van says they're legal. Killer price.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220463385528&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT
The BT003RS are great tires. We are using the BT003 Race Only with Type 2 Compund on the rear. I like them the best so far on the big bike, but there is no denying all the BT003 series is a Dodge good tire. I am going off the Michelin Slick Front to the BT003 Slick front for WF. They have two different styles and compounds we will run to see if it is comparable to the Michelin Slick Front we like. However, we will stick with the Michelin on the little 600 bike. No issues there since it tops at just over 150.
If you guys are interested in a bulk BT003 order, let me know. I just bought several sets for our 3 big bikes and got a great price from our Bridgestone Disti. I think we can do better if we bought on one order.
Papi,
Well my experience with the RS's at Mojave were great. Was a little worried about what kind of traction they would have when cold(I'm a little gun shy around DOT race tires,had a bad experience in front of the house on some cold Michelin Pilot Races :-o). Hooked right up from the get go. Now I just have to see how they work at Elmo and hope I don't have to bust out the tire groover.
Thanks for the input buddy!
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I had dot race tires for the Sept meeting, i don't think there much different to z rated in the dirt, not on it long enough to cause the probs that were showing on the salt,
Reading back over his thread and seeing Joe A's application for rule change to allow z rated tires, i will do similar, i am yet to chunk a harder z rated tire but was damaging the dot tires every pass above 220, some may say don't wheelspin and treat the tire more gently, well its harder on the 750 to do this, if i short shift & fall off the power curve i have to downshift several gears to pick it up again , same as a peaky 2 stroke..
Scary thing was on one pass at WOS i had big blisters visible right around the tire when i stopped at the 6 mile, and by the time i was picked up and returned to the pits they were not visible and could only be felt with a fair bit of pressure from a thumb ....
My tires varied from Dunlop gp-a, to Michelin power one & power race ,in varying compounds
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I had dot race tires for the Sept meeting, i don't think there much different to z rated in the dirt, not on it long enough to cause the probs that were showing on the salt,
Reading back over his thread and seeing Joe A's application for rule change to allow z rated tires, i will do similar, i am yet to chunk a harder z rated tire but was damaging the dot tires every pass above 220, some may say don't wheelspin and treat the tire more gently, well its harder on the 750 to do this, if i short shift & fall off the power curve i have to downshift several gears to pick it up again , same as a peaky 2 stroke..
Scary thing was on one pass at WOS i had big blisters visible right around the tire when i stopped at the 6 mile, and by the time i was picked up and returned to the pits they were not visible and could only be felt with a fair bit of pressure from a thumb ....
My tires varied from Dunlop gp-a, to Michelin power one & power race ,in varying compounds
More information the better..
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I had dot race tires for the Sept meeting, i don't think there much different to z rated in the dirt, not on it long enough to cause the probs that were showing on the salt,
Reading back over his thread and seeing Joe A's application for rule change to allow z rated tires, i will do similar, i am yet to chunk a harder z rated tire but was damaging the dot tires every pass above 220, some may say don't wheelspin and treat the tire more gently, well its harder on the 750 to do this, if i short shift & fall off the power curve i have to downshift several gears to pick it up again , same as a peaky 2 stroke..
Scary thing was on one pass at WOS i had big blisters visible right around the tire when i stopped at the 6 mile, and by the time i was picked up and returned to the pits they were not visible and could only be felt with a fair bit of pressure from a thumb ....
My tires varied from Dunlop gp-a, to Michelin power one & power race ,in varying compounds
That has been my concern from the beginning,the DOT's being to soft. I run Elmo and Mojave at well below 200,so its not a concern for me,but the idea of the soft racing compounds and 200mph+ speeds and long distance at B-Ville give me some real concerns for the Fast Guys(even you John :-D). The admonishment to 'not spin the tire' is a little silly considering the surface and what you're trying to do. Even if you perceive you're not spinning the tire,I'm sure that telemetry would show enough slippage to be a concern. Hard comounds are whats needed and the DOT race tires just don't offer them. Almost glad its something I don't have to worry about. Now some might say that my opinion may not mean much since I'm 'slow',but the old adage "you don't have to know how to build a clock to tell the time" might just apply. Good Luck to you 200 plus-ers!
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Hard comounds are whats needed and the DOT race tires just don't offer them.
I don't believe this is 100% true. Bridgestone for example offers a Type 2 compound which is pretty hard.
Funny, but this whole tire thing should really be just focused on safety. If Racing Only tires do not de-lam as destructively as Street tires, then that should be what matters. If some street ZR's don't destructively come apart, then that is important as well. There are some tires and some compounds though that should be regarded as unsafe for high speed LSR use, regardless of tire spin or lack thereof. To me, knowing that upfront before investing in Racing tires for the year is crucial information.
I've had a tire come apart on me at the track during high speed. It's not pretty. It almost killed me and a couple riders around me.
While it is very important that experienced High Speed LSR racers like Noonan, Amo and others share their real time experiences with the rest of us, let's not forget that collectively we all need to be on the same page for our own safety, and those around us.
Personally, I wanted to see for myself what worked and what didn't. Wrong or right, I did it. I took a lot of heat over that, a lot of embarrassment as well. MC tech crawled up my backside several times. In the end, they were right. It was un-needed. I was too hard on some tires when I should have exhibited more control as a racer instead of being a cowboy. Now I still won't ever go back to Michelin Slicks on the Rear for 200 speeds, because I just don't trust the tire after it shredded on one pass. But I respect the direction of the MC Committee and Techs to keep us as safe as they can. That is what counts. That we stay safe and come to mutual consensus together.
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Steve: " One man's trash is another man's treasure". Team Forstall-DeLuca-Knecum used Michelin slicks with great success this year. Best traction and wear we have ever seen. I must add that the front lost a section of tread but I believe Mark ran over something as there was no wear on the rest of the tread. Tire life really comes down to tire management. If it is spun too hard or long it will fail. If you can't hear or feel it, watch the tach. If all else fails use traction control and set it on high. :roll: