Landracing Forum
Misc Forums => LSR General Chat => Topic started by: lcorriveau3 on August 30, 2010, 08:54:58 PM
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I understand the concept of production class bodywork being stock/from the factory. Is there any wiggle room, for example a 1999 Mustang Cobra has a different front bumpercover design than a v6 or Gt front bumpercover. Can you interchange items like this if it is from the same year and body style of vehicle??
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As long as the car is in the same body family, such as GM F body or G body, any OEM pieces are interchangable. Must be OEM available.
DW
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Like putting a 32 grill on a Model A???
RICK
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Only in the Production Roadster class, if you can find one.
DW
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I thank you for the answer DW, much appreciated.
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After some further thought and consultation with a respected friend I decided that my original answer may have been short on detail.
Therefore:
In production classes, no mix-n-match configurations of a vehicles body panels are allowed. You have to pick a year/model and stick with it.
In production class you have to present a "production" vehicle for inspection. We don't require that you have a real one (matching numbers) but your replica must be aerodynamically identical to a genuine production vehicle, other than the allowable mods spelled out in the rule book.
If you are presenting a vehicle to compete in production supercharged then the body configuration of the vehicle that was supercharged from the factory must be used. If that vehicle had some funky front spoiler you must also have it in place since all genuine production supercharged versions of the car had it from the factory and you are presenting your vehicle as a production vehicle. Non-aerodynamic mods are not required so you don't need a real matching VIN number car but your vehicle must be aerodynamically identical to a stock version of the car you are presenting to compete. You have to take the good with the bad in production class.
Here is an example of what you can't do:
Imagine in 1999 a manufacturer made a supercharged version of a basic model sedan.
The supercharged version came with a different nose, side skirts and a huge whale tail in the rear. all bolt on parts but every supercharged car came with them and none of the N/A cars did.
The base version had a simple nose, no side skirts and no tail.
If you want to enter this body style in Production supercharged it must have all the bodywork that the supercharged version came with. You have to take the good with the bad in production class. You get the supercharger motor but you also get the body kit.
If you want to enter this body style in basic Production it CAN'T have any of the bodywork that only came on the supercharged version. again, you have to take the good with the bad in production class.
No pulling a "clean" nose from a base car, a supercharged engine from a model that only came with a huge nose and whales tail is not production.
Aerodynamics is king in land speed racing so a Production class vehicle MUST have all the misc aerodynamic killing do-dads in place because removing them is what takes you out of the production class.
DW
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Thanks Dan,,, I was kinda being a smart a$$,, You cleared it up very well.
RICK
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Dan:
Production rules sometimes read to me like the bike rules :lol:
Couple of years ago didn't someone (?Banks?) set diesel pickup records while running the aero fiberglass goodies that were only available on the super-duper V-10 model??
Mike
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I got BIT by this rule on a few of my own cars years ago too..
you are suppose to show photographic proof of the example or kit or option..
you also have to use ALL /EVERY one of the pieces in the kit / option
you CANNOT just pick and choose certain PIECES of the add on parts and not use others that were included
nor should you mix two or more different kits ( to take all of the good stuff from each kit ).
and then, once it is accepted by DW,
you are not suppose to change it and jump around in class....
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OK, this is interesting. I know I am just beginning to grasp the class rules.
To be more to my point on body style. In 2000 Ford released 300 Cobra R model mustangs. These had a different nose and rear wing. If I understand correctly I can have my car look identical to this body and run in the E/PRO class with my 3.8liter drivetrain. Correct me if I am wrong, and please add guidance and direction if my thoughts are incorrect.
I am interested in starting a build, not looking for records, just looking to get my feet wet (at the Loring event) and I am thinking of going in this direction.
Your input is very helpful and again I thank you in advance.
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Dan,
You are definately the MAN in my book! Thankyou for that lengthy, clear and precise explanation. Now If the rest of the rule book could be written like that.......It would be golden!
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"In 2000 Ford released 300 Cobra R model mustangs"
Hmmm doesn't that butt up against the 500 vehicles of the same model for the general public statement in the Production rules?
And I see that they came with no back seat....GT rules?
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Thanks for the stroke.
Not written by me but by one of my trusted minions.
No, he will not write each and every sentence in the rule book.
DW
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I realised the error of my ways when I was reading my rule book at work and noted the 500 unit minimum.
So I need to look into my next option. I will start reading the GT rules as suggested.
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Whatever you do don't make your decision on what I typed as I know less than nothing.
Tho I think GT has the same 500 number :|
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You are right on the 500 number in GT also. I'll have to rethink this plan.
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Are you allowed to run a different displacement engine in production class than what was available in the body style, Or are you limited to the production engine? I am discovering that there are alot of questions on my part and I thank everyone for thier patience.
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Are you allowed to run a different displacement engine in production class than what was available in the body style, Or are you limited to the production engine?
Yes and Yes. Now that may seem like a strange answer to an either/or question. To be more specific - you can change the displacement of the engine that came with the car but it must be an engine that was available in that model. Example - If you have a Camaro that came with a 327. you can bore stroke that engine to whatever size is possible and in the process maybe change displacement class but remain in the Production category. You could also make the engine smaller if need be to drop down a class or two.
So . . Yes you are allowed to run a different displacement but it must be an engine that came with that car, that year. The key here is that it cannot be an engine swap.
See SCTA 2010 rule book page 71 under Section 5.E near the bottom of the page: "A different displacement size of the same design engine may be used provided it does not constitute an engine swap as defined in Section 4.N."
Also - if per chance you are also considering the GT classes there is a variation on this where engine swaps are allowed in GT as long as the engine came from the same manufacturer. (example - you CAN put a Buick engine in a Corvette in GT)
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Dan -
Your response, #5, is probably the most concise definition of production class body limitations I've seen put to print.
You spelled out in 10 paragraphs what I've been trying to suss out for 6 years.
I'm tempted to print it, frame it, and hang it in my garage.
Thanks!
Chris
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Chris,
The thanks go to my trusted minions, little yellow guys with one or two eyes.
DW
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Are you allowed to run a different displacement engine in production class than what was available in the body style, Or are you limited to the production engine? I am discovering that there are alot of questions on my part and I thank everyone for thier patience.
Thnks for the reply, I have the Loring Timing Association 2010 rulebook. This is my closest venue, (about 4 hours away, I actually grew up in Caribou, next to Loring) and I want to try and run up there. I keep reading this rule book over and over, there is so much info to absorb. I appreciate all the anwers to my posted questions.