Landracing Forum

Bonneville Salt Flats Discussion => Build Diaries => Topic started by: desperate on May 28, 2010, 03:33:37 PM

Title: Indian 741B from England
Post by: desperate on May 28, 2010, 03:33:37 PM
A short introduction. In the UK back in the sixties thjere were no "Custom" magazines, so at 14 I would flick through Hot Rod at my newsagents, but couldn't afford to buy it. At 16 I went to the cinema to watch some wierd film starring Frankie Avalon, and it did my head in, it was called Bikini Beach, and there was footage of Tommy Ivo's "Showboat". It really did my head in. In England we had one drag strip which had only been open a year, and for my 16th birthday I got my Dad to take me (on his old scooter).
The other year I was looking through some of my old school rubbish, and found a picture I had drawn of a chopper. Now, back then ('67) everyone drew Harleys, but I had drawn an INDIAN! I'll try and find it and scan it. At 18 I actually owned one, it cost me £10, happy days. From then on I have rarely been without one even though they're pretty rare here, and I've owned my current one for 20+ years. It's been through many re-incarnations, and last year it was a show winning trike. I sold the chassis and the engine's been sitting in my workshop with me wondering what to do next, until Oz turned up with his salt stories, and that night, after we'd drunk two bottles of vodka, its final build was decided, it's coming to Bonneville in 2012.
This might be a long build, I'm not sure, and as a "Newbie" I might need some help and advice, but it WILL be there. The motor's already had an extensive rebuild and is running Royal Enfield pistons, Peugeot valves, modified head and gas flowed but I reckon I'd better do the bottom end. Building the bike is the easy bit as I spent 20 years building frames.
I'm so fired up with getting to the "Holy Place" that even now, I'm having trouble sleeping.
Title: Re: Indian 741B from England
Post by: Nortonist 592 on May 28, 2010, 11:18:54 PM
Funny how the "Holy Place" has such a draw on people around the world.  I'm looking forward to seeing this build.  Its nice to see an engine on a bench and it will get a frame built around it.  Have you any "chiseled in stone" plans or are they still very flexible?
Title: Re: Indian 741B from England
Post by: sheribuchta on May 29, 2010, 01:12:44 AM
Welcome, Welcome... any friend of Oz's is a friend of mine. We finally were fortunate enough to meet at Bonneville and he is a good man. I am posting a pic of the three of us(My husband Willie, Oz and myself) out on the salt after one of my runs. I offered a place when he comes to the states, and you are welcome, as well. I have a soft heart for men who race, especially on another continent, so come on by on your way to the big white dyno.
I am also posting a picture of one of my favorite Indians and the awesome Lady who rides her, Jill Iverson. Look forward to seeing your build. Welcome and Good Luck.

Sheri Buchta
Title: Re: Indian 741B from England
Post by: Nortonist 592 on May 29, 2010, 06:45:04 PM
With a welcome like that you have no option but to come to Bonneville.  Sheri and Willie are the salt of the earth.  And Jill's Indian is everyones favorite Indian!  You won't be alone Indianwise.  I spotted this one at the last El Mirage.

(http://)(http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/6792/img1577q.jpg)
By weslake (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/weslake) at 2010-05-19
Title: Re: Indian 741B from England
Post by: desperate on May 30, 2010, 09:55:02 AM
Funny how the "Holy Place" has such a draw on people around the world.  I'm looking forward to seeing this build.  Its nice to see an engine on a bench and it will get a frame built around it.  Have you any "chiseled in stone" plans or are they still very flexible?
Thanks Cheri. Me and Oz shared a house for years, he's great. He also worked for me for many years and it was me who taught him how to build frames.
Nortonist, my frame is pretty well sorted in my head. Here's a picture of the bike as it was a couple of years ago.
Title: Re: Indian 741B from England
Post by: oz on June 02, 2010, 04:16:10 PM
might need a little bit less rake this time chris!

It was quite strange when I met Willie and Sheri, Willie reminded me of you chris I reckon you will get on like a house on fire but hopefully not my house again.might even be Beeroclock

Chop Chop Chris the boat leaves in 101weeks!!!

TTFN Oz
Title: Re: Indian 741B from England
Post by: oz on June 02, 2010, 04:41:10 PM
A short introduction. In the UK back in the sixties thjere were no "Custom" magazines, so at 14 I would flick through Hot Rod at my newsagents, but couldn't afford to buy it. At 16 I went to the cinema to watch some wierd film starring Frankie Avalon, and it did my head in, it was called Bikini Beach, and there was footage of Tommy Ivo's "Showboat". It really did my head in. In England we had one drag strip which had only been open a year, and for my 16th birthday I got my Dad to take me (on his old scooter).
The other year I was looking through some of my old school rubbish, and found a picture I had drawn of a chopper. Now, back then ('67) everyone drew Harleys, but I had drawn an INDIAN! I'll try and find it and scan it. At 18 I actually owned one, it cost me £10, happy days. From then on I have rarely been without one even though they're pretty rare here, and I've owned my current one for 20+ years. It's been through many re-incarnations, and last year it was a show winning trike. I sold the chassis and the engine's been sitting in my workshop with me wondering what to do next, until Oz turned up with his salt stories, and that night, after we'd drunk two bottles of vodka, its final build was decided, it's coming to Bonneville in 2012.
This might be a long build, I'm not sure, and as a "Newbie" I might need some help and advice, but it WILL be there. The motor's already had an extensive rebuild and is running Royal Enfield pistons, Peugeot valves, modified head and gas flowed but I reckon I'd better do the bottom end. Building the bike is the easy bit as I spent 20 years building frames.
I'm so fired up with getting to the "Holy Place" that even now, I'm having trouble sleeping.

I met Dave Draper in Santa Cruz who was in Bikini Beach I actually trained at his gym when I was going through my Body building phase really nice bloke and he used to train the guv of california small world eh

Damm it was dont make waves my mistake oops
Title: Re: Indian 741B from England
Post by: oz on June 05, 2010, 03:22:29 AM
(http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll140/oz110364/093.jpg)

(http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll140/oz110364/bonnevilleday5270.jpg)

(http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll140/oz110364/558.jpg)

I dont know who this gentleman was as I didnt get a chance for a chat but couldnt help thinking he was a bit like old Burt
Title: Re: Indian 741B from England
Post by: charlie101 on June 05, 2010, 09:35:31 PM
It'll be interesting to follow what you come up with! Theres an interesting array of Indians bound for Bonneville. What's your goal? Just getting there? Fast or reallyreally fast? Sit on or sit in? The beauty of the Saltcracker is bar to none, but for speed the tiny Buddfab streamliner is my favourite, they know their shit with small displacement engines. Wind factor is everything. It surely would be thrilling to se someone going reallyreally fast with a Scout, and you Englishmen know how to put up a fight for a record, don't you?
Title: Re: Indian 741B from England
Post by: desperate on June 08, 2010, 09:17:23 AM
Hi Charlie. Well, the main intention is to get there and do at least one run. The bike's been so many different things (it was a trike last year) and I couldn't think what to do next....until Oz came to stay, so the rebuild into a Salt Flats Racer will be its last re-incarnation, and if it throws a rod I don't care, but having said that, I actually do intend taking it as fast as possible, and a few tuning goodies are in the post to me.

Right, back to today. I've been scanning eBay for a decent set of forks and a pair of wire spoked wheels, but the Japs phased them out years ago and started using mags, which just wouldn't look right. To top it all the rear wheel had to be chain drive. The problem with eBay is either everything is hundreds of miles away, or the only people who might have what I want are far too expensive. However, Sunday brought some luck, a complete set of Suzuki GS550 forks in bits, less wheel, for free, and only 20 miles away, leftovers from my mates Chop build. He also threw in a pile of calipers and a fork brace, plus a brand new Harley Kehein CV carb, exactly what I was looking for, and the price? FREE! That's what mates are for.
Monday, I decided to visit a local bike breakers. I knew he had no wheels, but there were other parts I needed. On the way out of town I stopped off at my local car breakers for a chat with one of the lads, and couldn't believe my eyes, sat in a shed was an accident damaged Honda Shadow, and it was fitted with good wire wheels, and as a bonus was chain drive. After a little haggling the were mine (complete with good tyres) for £60 or $86.
Today I spent 5 hours on the lathe making a spindle and spacers for the front wheel, and now it's a perfect fit in the Suzuki forks, and I can start thinking about building the frame.
Title: Re: Indian 741B from England
Post by: bak189 on June 08, 2010, 12:44:39 PM
Don't need no stinking front brake for the salt........Good luck...........

We got a big base scout we might run in the future........
Title: Re: Indian 741B from England
Post by: oz on June 08, 2010, 12:49:05 PM
You have some luck Chris good on ya, so if you get some tube by friday should be on wheels tea time saturday.I hav luck too seems whenever I touch the honda I have loads of it,I got my redundancy notice today!!
Title: Re: Indian 741B from England
Post by: desperate on June 09, 2010, 02:17:20 PM
Bak, I'm thinking of junking the brake, although it'll be handy when testing it on the tarmac over here, there aren't many long strips. Oz, the tube is on the shelf!
Made a jig for the frame today. It's extremely basic but very accurate (I've used these before). The base is a Black and Decker "Workmate" (do you have them in the 'States?) and will easily take the weight of a complete bike. On top of that I clamped a length of 1" oak, and screwed a 6' 6" x 2' sheet of 1/8" aluminium. All of this was already in my workshop, so why waste it?
The ally sheet is marked out with 3 centrelines and crosslines at 9" intervals. The contraption at the back clamps the axle plates firmly, and is made from 3 lengths of 2" x 2" x 1/4" angle. I've set the distance between them 1/8" wider than they need be, as they'll pull in slightly after welding.
The biggest advantage of this setup? It'll all fold flat when not in use, and the work height is perfect. Disadvantages? The weld spatter will stick to the ally, but I'm only using it once. Hardest part of building it? Lifting the engine on.
One handy tip...before I scribe a line on steel, I pre-mark it with a tyre paint pen, makes the lines easier to see!
Title: Re: Indian 741B from England
Post by: desperate on June 17, 2010, 09:00:47 AM
Just a picture of my Indian when it was a rat, to see if I can post bigger pictures.
Title: Re: Indian 741B from England
Post by: desperate on June 17, 2010, 09:34:19 AM
Hmmmm.....didn't work. Anyway, I've been busy and the basic frame's done. First I had to spend hours on the lathe making spacers to fit tha Honda wheel in the Suzuki forks, pacers for the rear wheel, spacers for the engine to offset it and also make it easier to remove. Each time I completed a major section of the frame I took it out of the jig to weld the parts I couldn't get at, and also to rectify any tubes distortion caused by welding, and it must have come out ten times. The last part to go on was the headstock. Here's some dimensions: Rake is 45 degrees, wheelbase 65", ground clearance @4", and the forks need to be shortened 3-3/4". That's the easy part done.
Next it's brackets, tags, making parts......I dunno why I do this sometimes, but I'm determined to get to Bonneville in 2012.
Title: Re: Indian 741B from England
Post by: bak189 on June 17, 2010, 10:32:38 AM
WHOT MATE........no bronze- welding..................
Title: Re: Indian 741B from England
Post by: octane on June 17, 2010, 11:24:56 AM
Flippin' brilliant Chris !
Title: Re: Indian 741B from England
Post by: willieworld on June 17, 2010, 11:38:00 AM
great build     love the frame                            willie buchta
Title: Re: Indian 741B from England
Post by: oz on June 17, 2010, 11:53:45 AM
Ha ha you never ever measured rake or anything before hmmm what did you used to say "If it looks right it probably is" Damm you have got it bad,Worst case of Salt fever without steppin on the salt ever I reckon you must have caught it of me.
Looking good Gaffer!

Oz
Title: Re: Indian 741B from England
Post by: rockstar on June 17, 2010, 03:16:40 PM
Looking good there!!
You do realise that with OZ egging you on there will deffo be no cure for the fever. :-D
Hi Oz how are your projects coming along?

 Dave
Title: Re: Indian 741B from England
Post by: Buzz Lightbeer on June 17, 2010, 03:30:38 PM
Hey Oz I reckon some salt must have stayed on your boots, then dropped off when you got in Chris's workshop.
Then Chris stepped on it & that was it, straight into the veins... he has the fever real bad.
Only known cure is to race on the great white dyno :-D
Title: Re: Indian 741B from England
Post by: desperate on June 18, 2010, 07:18:53 AM
WHOT MATE........no bronze- welding..................
:-D Can you still buy brazing rods? :-D Seriously though, the first welding I ever did was bronze, back in the days before fluxed rods. I wish I'd got £1 for every Morris Minor I've laid under brazing the chassis.

Buzz, it's a combination of salt fever and Indian fever. I genuinely LOVE this old engine. Did I tell you my 17 year old daughter's middle name is HENDEE? For those who don't know, the "Hendee Manufacturing Company, Springfield, Mass." were the people who built these beautiful machines.
Anyway, enough history. I've shortened the forks and it's off the jig, because I'm putting it on the "Brit Chopper" stand at a show this weekend, at a place called Mildenhall, which is a United States Airforce base near where I live. I always get a buzz once something I'm building is on its wheels, and keep dragging my missus and daughter into the shed to look. "Yes dear, it's very nice" she says. It stands 33" to the top of the yoke.
Title: Re: Indian 741B from England
Post by: oz on June 18, 2010, 12:29:19 PM
Jeez another measurment Chris, My bike at its highest point just touches the end of my John Thomas so by my calculation it must be about 4" tall which cant be right it has 17"Wheels!

Oi Dave its Summer again maybe I should drag myself upto Stockton again and see if any little old ladies can knock my Mercedes sprinter over,Are you and Mark off to Bonneville this year?

Oz
Title: Re: Indian 741B from England
Post by: rockstar on June 18, 2010, 03:03:01 PM
Hi OZ
Yes hopefully,depending on the exchange rate.
It is deffo time you came down for a pint and share some of your stories of what you lot are doing,but if you leave your big sprinter tool in the car park for the little ole ladies to play with you might get arrested or paid for the pleasure :-D

Dave
Title: Re: Indian 741B from England
Post by: Nortonist 592 on June 18, 2010, 11:09:41 PM
David.   Are you coming over this year??   I'm bringing the chair this year.  Hope you make it and hope to have a longer chat than the last time LOL!

Bill
Title: Re: Indian 741B from England
Post by: rockstar on June 19, 2010, 03:39:28 PM
Hi Bill.
We hope to be over in 2011,give time for the economy to settle down ( Ha Ha).
I read somewhere that you got a record at Elmo with your sidecar,must be running real good.
I really want to look at it closely in person as it looks really unique.

 Dave
Title: Re: Indian 741B from England
Post by: desperate on June 29, 2010, 06:49:44 AM
Just recieved a parcel from Indian Parts Europe, containing an electronic ignition kit, new inlet manifold for a Keihin carb, and a HUUUGE 26 tooth sprocket for the gearbox. These are quality items, highly recommended. The new inlet & carb are on the right, guess which is the new sprocket! Work carried out recently, well, looking at the bike you'd think I've done nothing, but I've made a pair of clip-on bars, most of the rear footpegs & controls, and loads of silly brackets. I'm waiting for more eBay stuff to arrive, and tomorrow I'm going to the steel suppliers to buy a sheet of 16 guage so I can start on the petrol tank, oil tank & rear bodywork, and to the local bike-breakers for a few bits.
Title: Re: Indian 741B from England
Post by: oz on June 29, 2010, 11:02:36 AM
ooh shiny bolt them on then and wheres my watch.
Title: Re: Indian 741B from England
Post by: desperate on July 13, 2010, 11:15:18 AM
Jeeze! Got my steel and the price has gone up over 100% from last year. Still, at least I could get on, and have made the fuel & oil tanks and a tail-piece-come-seat (I might put 1/2" of foam on it). The fuel tank has fittings for an aircraft filler, but I'm not sure about the oil tank. I was thinking about using a cork off a brandy bottle :-D but that might not be allowed. Finding a suitable cap from the breakers is impossible as everything's plastic now, but I have an old petrol can from the 1920's which has a filler neck with a brass screw-on cap. The cap is even drilled for security wiring. Or can I get away with an ordinary push-in bung like some Harleys? The oil tank has a breather pipe, so it won't pressurise, and is finished apart from welding a neck on.
Title: Re: Indian 741B from England
Post by: oz on July 13, 2010, 11:44:51 AM
Way to go Chris I reckon you will be up and running befor I even get this bloody fuel injection on mine!!

Got my watch it was brilliant It worked out that it cost 75p a day before it died.

ttfn oz
Title: Re: Indian 741B from England
Post by: desperate on July 13, 2010, 01:46:47 PM
Ha ha OZ, my £3 Ebay watch is still going.
Serious question again. Are assisted starts allowed? I'm about to do my controls and would like to go foot clutch & hand change, as I'm used to it, but pulling away in the low gearing I will have to use will probably burn out the clutch or I'll stall it, plus slipping it from a standing start will cause balance problems, I had that before when I changed the gearing when it was a road bike. I was thinking of trying hand clutch and foot change so I can keep both feet down, anyone tried it?
It's difficult to interpret some of the rules, but from what I read, it's possibly allowed as long as the engine is running???
Title: Re: Indian 741B from England
Post by: octane on July 13, 2010, 05:34:19 PM
Goodness Chris...if I could build at half the speed you're building,
I could build a Jumbo Jet in a week.

Bike looks brilliant!

.
Title: Re: Indian 741B from England
Post by: Constant Kinetics on July 17, 2010, 12:39:37 AM
I got my first bike 8 years ago and i think in that time i haven't seen enough Indians to count on one hand. I guess they all meet in Bonneville. Now i have to go.
Title: Re: Indian 741B from England
Post by: desperate on July 23, 2010, 06:36:44 AM
See you there in 2012 CK! I've not done a lot on mine lately, but I did finally make room to wheel it outside. It's nice to see it in daylight. Next jobs are foot change and hand clutch, which aint as easy as it sounds.
Title: Re: Indian 741B from England
Post by: octane on July 26, 2010, 08:00:04 AM
Bike's looking good Chris !!!

... Next jobs are foot change and hand clutch, which aint as easy as it sounds.
Doesn't sound easy to me.
How do you plan on doing it, especially the foot change ?

.
Title: Re: Indian 741B from England
Post by: oz on August 01, 2010, 07:20:50 AM
Hows it going Gaffer?
Title: Re: Indian 741B from England
Post by: desperate on August 02, 2010, 11:11:55 AM
Bike's looking good Chris !!!

... Next jobs are foot change and hand clutch, which aint as easy as it sounds.
Doesn't sound easy to me.
How do you plan on doing it, especially the foot change ?

.
Here's the front of the footchange, no drawings, just a couple of cardboard templates, and the design worked out in bed while trying to get to sleep without thinking about the bike (which is impossible.....I even wake up thinking about it!
It's pretty simple, the two brackets clamp each side of the primary casings to support a 3" tube, through which is a cross-shaft holding the rose-jointed rods. Each lever is drilled & tapped several times to give loads of adjustment. The foot pedal (which isn't finished) will be "heel & toe". This is my second prototype, but I reckon it'll work really nicely. The fiddliest part will be setting up the "heel & toe" to get perfect angles.
Title: Re: Indian 741B from England
Post by: oz on August 02, 2010, 12:01:09 PM
Good on ya Chris
Pleased to hear you still aint sleeping.
of to italy to see SIDI on thursday for a fortnight wahoo I think he is still a full paid up member of the Wide Awake Club but I hope not I dont reckon I can do all nighters  anymore ...... or can I hmmm will have to see.

Time for another chin wag in your Garage soon oh and how do I get a copy of the Mag I aint seen one yet!

TTFN Oz
Title: Re: Indian 741B from England
Post by: desperate on August 04, 2010, 07:05:04 AM
Footpedal's done and I've tried it out. It works smoothly but needs tweeking as the gearchange lever on the clutch housing goes "over centre" when I select 3rd. Luckily this is an easy fix, it simply needs a longer lever.
I've mocked up my idea for a hand clutch and can't believe it, it works really well and is smooth and light, so now I'm off to shape (by hand) those billet ally parts.
Title: Re: Indian 741B from England
Post by: desperate on August 04, 2010, 10:34:42 AM
Several hours of drilling and filing later, it's done.
Title: Re: Indian 741B from England
Post by: oz on August 04, 2010, 11:09:42 AM
looking good chris!!
Title: Re: Indian 741B from England
Post by: willieworld on August 04, 2010, 11:42:55 AM
like the look of your bike--if you are going to race at speedweek your number plate will have to be in front of your axle             willie buchta
Title: Re: Indian 741B from England
Post by: desperate on August 10, 2010, 10:12:55 AM
Thanks Willie, I'll move them forwards. I'm still making all the parts that look so simple once they're bolted on. This is my battery tray, it only took six hours to make and fit, so I can remove the battery in seconds. I had to notch out the frame, but it's the only place it would fit where there won't be excessive heat. The battery is a sealed one off of eBay, originally intended to power "mobility scooters" for disabled folk and measures 6" x 4" x 4".
Title: Re: Indian 741B from England
Post by: desperate on August 10, 2010, 10:25:10 AM
Another job done....last weekend I met up with a mate who deals in old British bike spares, and he gave me a pile of BSA, Triumph and Norton pipes. With these pipes I managed to make my exhausts, which are 1-5/8", so I turned up some adaptors which also double up as heavy duty clamps. Each pipe is made of three pieces, and after cutting and shutting, only two pipes from that pile remain!
Title: Re: Indian 741B from England
Post by: desperate on August 28, 2010, 06:32:04 AM
Wow, I've finally finished the "Dry Build" and stripped it down. After 2 days of filing and sanding and finishing welds I couldn't get at, it's gone for powdercoating, the frame in "Chromex" (looks amazingly like real chrome) and the tinwork in red candy metallic, plus some other parts in "Gunmetal". I get it back next Wednesday night, only problem being I have to have to leave with it Thursday night for one of the biggest shows in the UK, plus the forks are at the machinists for a set of billet ally yokes which will also be ready Wednesday and....the tank & frame decals are also being done, but they'll be ready Tuesday. Phew! :-o
Title: Re: Indian 741B from England
Post by: charlie101 on August 28, 2010, 10:37:59 AM
The battery is a sealed one off of eBay, originally intended to power "mobility scooters" for disabled folk and measures 6" x 4" x 4".
Watch out for that kind of sealed battery! If, and most are, it is only intended for trickle charge it can explode quite nasty (there's many that can verify this) if you charge them with too much amperage, it's doable -with the bike generator or alternator- but takes an adapted electronic regulator to avoid overcharging! The battery got internal valves or special material between the sheets of lead for the induced gas and the pressure can go kaboom.
Title: Re: Indian 741B from England
Post by: indianjoe45 on September 02, 2010, 07:54:42 AM
Wow where have I been..... Here is another Indian bound for the salt and looks nearly finished! I have to say the styling looks like an early Arlen Ness. You are obviously a very good metal worker. I look forward to seeing your bike in the future.
All the best....
Joe
Melbourne, Australia
Title: Re: Indian 741B from England
Post by: desperate on September 07, 2010, 10:27:55 AM
Charlie, it goes on a very low trickle charge and seems fine. Joe, thanks for your kind comments. It's been likened to Ness a few times, and isn't helped by the fact that I ran a Chop-Shop for 20 years!
The powdrecoating came back last Wednesday night and it's stunning, red metallic candy tinwear and "Chromex" frame, which really does look like real chrome. Assembly began at 5am Thursday as it had to be at a show Friday. Billet ally yokes (triple trees) arrived mid-day. Finished assembly at 10.30pm and managed to get it together without a single scratch to the paint, then drove to the show arriving Friday morning after a 7 hour night-drive. At 59 I'm getting too old for this. Then we partied the whole weekend!
Should be running in the next week or so (tank sealer to cure, cables, hoses and wiring to finish).
Title: Re: Indian 741B from England
Post by: desperate on September 25, 2010, 08:31:17 AM
Wow, I got the old girl running last week, but kicking it over whilst laid on the tank holding the clip-on bars is going to take some getting used to, as it always had 18" apehangers on 6" risers! Still a lot to do to get it right, mainly carburation. The electronic ignition I got from Moen at Indian Parts Europe is amazing, what a spark (I'm using a single coil off a Yamaha 750 triple).
It's funny how you think you've got everything how you want it, you lay in bed not counting sheep, but going through the bike from end to end wondering what you could have done better. This idea came to me about 3am when I was mentally going through the parts under the bench in my shed.
When I did the cable-hand operated clutch, it worked great, but at the back of my mind I could see the cable breaking or something going wrong at Bonnevelle, so I decided to go hydraulic, using only parts I'd stashed away incase they came in handy one day, but I would have to make my own slave cylinder. I had a bike clutch master cylinder under the bench, and also a brake master cylinder off one of those Piaggio scooter thingys (dunno why I kept that, but I do now.)
With hydraulics, the amount of travel on the slave cylinder is dependant on the bore of the master cylinder. The master was 14mm, so I somehow worked it out that the slave bore ought to be @12mm. Amazingly, the Piaggio one was 12mm, so it was stripped and relieved of its piston & seals. Had to do a bit of machining on the piston to get more travel.
Big problem 1. How do I bore out a PERFECT 12mm hole when I have no reamer? Solution: Sharpen my only 12mm drill to perfection, put the ally bar in the lathe, pilot-drill to 11mm, then wind the 12mm drill in so slowly I nearly fell asleep doing it (60mm of boring boring). Result? Abso-bloody-lutely perfect!
Bid problem 2. OK, the piston moves 15mm but I want the clutch lever to move at least 30mm or more. Solution....A bell-crank lever, with the top pushrod adjustable with a ratio of either 2:1 or 2.5:1. Both worked nicely, but I plumped for 2.5:1, as (like my Mrs says) length matters.
This whole setup was made from stuff laying in the workshop. If the "Earl's" hose had been 1" shorter, it wouldn't have fit! Total cost £0. Time spent making it, 12 hours without a break.
Does it work? Better than I could ever imagine. Light lever & super-smooth.
Last night I forced the other half into the workshop, I wanted to show her how nice my super-trick digital speedo looked. "Wow" she said, as it zoomed through the numbers. "Do you like that?" I asked. "Yes, but I said wow because the bloody thing started first kick". I like my missus, and I LOVE my Indian.
Title: Re: Indian 741B from England
Post by: thefrenchowl on September 25, 2010, 08:50:08 AM
Hi Desperate...

Yes, it takes a lot of elbow grease to build stuff on a budget!!! Keep on the good work...

I should know, I'm doing the same, trying to built a Bonneville bike for next year for next to nothing...

But I'm with the opposition... H-D...!!!

I will start a built diary as soon as I can get decent photos out of my worned out camera...


Patrick
Title: Re: Indian 741B from England
Post by: desperate on September 25, 2010, 03:41:24 PM
Hiya Patrick, are you the person building a Harley '45 that Andy from American-Vee told me about? Nothing wrong with Harleys, I've owned a few myself. If you're UK-based, get in contact, none of us has any money, but we can sure pool our skills. My email's down at the moment but my number's 01493 733695. There's a bunch of us going to Bonneville in 2012 with Oz (gives us time to beg, borrow or steal to get there.)
Title: Re: Indian 741B from England
Post by: oz on September 25, 2010, 04:09:58 PM
You know it everyones welcome Patrick
Oz
Title: Re: Indian 741B from England
Post by: thefrenchowl on September 25, 2010, 08:25:24 PM
Hi Desparate, Hi Oz,

Yeah, that's me... Andy lives just 5 miles from me...

But it won't be a 45ci, more like a 55ci. Shot of the cycle parts in the garage where you can hardly swing a cat...

(http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/images/LSRKH10.jpg)

Spent nearly all today on AutoCAD, drawing mods and bits for the 3/8th Swagelok s/s valve I'm gonna use as a fuel valve, with lanyard auto shut off from the bars and incorporated auto kill switch...

I'm trying/aiming for next year's Speed Week cause it'll be my 60th...

Patrick
Title: Re: Indian 741B from England
Post by: oz on September 26, 2010, 04:05:54 AM
Hi Patrick
Looking good it looks just about finished.If you dont make it next year we could probably squeeze you in the container if you wanted.
Oz
Title: Re: Indian 741B from England
Post by: Briz on September 26, 2010, 06:34:20 AM
Is that a K model you got there Patrick?
Thats a rare ol' beast on these shores, thats for sure.
Title: Re: Indian 741B from England
Post by: desperate on September 28, 2010, 03:34:44 PM
Hi Patrick, Andy's coming to my place to take some pictures, try and grab a lift. Meanwhile, here's my latest update and at the moment I HATE it.
I thought everything was going too well. Borrowed another carb of Phixer and it fired first kick, revving freely, then after 15 seconds it locked solid....bastard. I needed to get at the crankshaft nut to turn it, which meant stripping half the bike to get at the primary bolts. I'd never actually worked on the bottom end before, apart from the clutch, and getting the inner primary off was a puzzle, but I found the problem (I hope). The crankshaft pulley was finger tight, and instead of driving on the taper, the sprocket was driving on the key, which had bent and allowed the inside of the sprocket to bind against the crankcase nose. An easy fix, and new keys, nuts etc are on thier way from good old Indian Parts Europe (in Denmark).
Now I know what's wrong I LOVE it again.
Title: Re: Indian 741B from England
Post by: oz on September 28, 2010, 04:07:13 PM
Phew! I bet cou carked yer sel as we say up noorth!
Title: Re: Indian 741B from England
Post by: Buzz Lightbeer on September 28, 2010, 05:00:06 PM
Is there a Geordie interpretor on this forum :-D
Title: Re: Indian 741B from England
Post by: desperate on September 29, 2010, 01:31:10 PM
Is there a Geordie interpretor on this forum :-D
Hmmmmm....a bit of language-crossover her. "Carked" is a Geordie way of saying "done a poo" (excuse me, moderators), and "yer sel" is Geordie for "your self". Here in the UK, Geordies are seen as the sort of person you wouldn't like to be sat next to in a pub, drinking pints of bitter. Geordies prefer Newcastle Brown Ale, and after they've drunk a few pints, want to fight the world and tell you how wonderful the City of Newcastle is, whereas the rest of the "UK" won't go anywhere near the place because of people like Oz live there. People who live in the next town, which is in reality part of Newcastle, but on the wrong side of the River Tyne, are called "Maccums" and the "Geordies" hate them, so please don't call Oz a "Maccum", he'll go mad. Anyway, geography lesson over and back to the Indian.

Waking up this morning I felt relieved I'd found the problem, and the whole episode had an unexpected bonus. Whilst waiting for the parts to arrive from Moen, I've decided to do a few jobs now I can get at it. I've helicoiled all the threads in the engine (where the chaincase bolts on) to 6mm, and drilled out the rear mounts in the gearbox & tapped them 8mm instead of 1/4 UNC (I'm getting partially metrified). Now the chaincase is held on the gearbox with 5 bolts instead if the 2 it always had, and its annoying oil drip will be no more. Also blanked off where the dynamo chain came out of the front so it doesn't chuck oil out, and made new gaskets all round.
 
Tomorrow, I'm going through the clutch assembly (it's in good nick except for a few burrs) and the oil pump's coming off for a full check over & clean-out. I've also found another rear wheel off some vee-twin Honda with an enormous Avon Venom-X 170/80/15 tyre, as new, so I'm going to see if there's any way I can squeeze the whole wheel in (the wheel in it is Honda Shadow, also 15".)
Title: Re: Indian 741B from England
Post by: oz on September 29, 2010, 02:04:59 PM
Dont go too wide chris your bike may not be heavy enough to get traction on a wider rubber its like loads of rubber on the trikes! not enough weight and you will just spin up.

and you are quite right you wouldnt like to get stuck in a pub on a dark night with the likes of me and hmmm TEAM OZCO,or on the other hand its always good for a giggle aint it. No Macums allowed or maybe one or two. ooo boy is that a new ooter on yer scooter.

ttfn Oz
Title: Re: Indian 741B from England
Post by: desperate on October 06, 2010, 12:59:45 PM
Also on my list of "things to do" was to upgrade the breather setup after reading how Lars did his (I find his topic invaluable for referances as he has many good pictures as well) and made a junction assembly for the hoses. As I have a fair bit of "Earl's" hose and fittings I decided to put a breather in the primary too, so now it has breather hoses coming out of the crankcase on both sides plus one out of the chaincase, and another from the oil tank. It all got a bit complicated, but in reality everything goes from this junction to a catch tank, which vents at the top of the frame under the fuel tank.
Moen's parts arrived, so I could assemble the primary. Cheers Moen (IPE) you're a gent.
Here's a picture of the junction, it only took 4 hours to make, and another with the hoses on.
Title: Re: Indian 741B from England
Post by: desperate on October 06, 2010, 01:02:29 PM
And two more pics, one of the whole system, and one of the catch tank. Total time, including making & fitting the hoses, over 2 days, and there are now zero fittings left in my box!
Title: Re: Indian 741B from England
Post by: Old Scrambler on February 21, 2011, 08:44:32 PM
Very Tidy!  Just read to gather info..........starting a build of my own.........Triumph T20 Tiger Cub.