Landracing Forum
Tech Information => Technical Discussion => Topic started by: landracing on October 19, 2005, 09:40:19 PM
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List,
I have contacted the distributor of a bore and stroke guage that the motorcycle guys have been using. This tool eliminates the need to tear the complete engine down, all you need to do is remove spark plugs and be able to rotate the motor and read a micrometer and do simple math.
The same tools the SCTA has been using for a few years and are an approved method of measuring the engines.
For this tool to work properly the spark plug holes must be directly above the center of the piston. 10mm or 12mm plug holes.
The distributor will give us a small break on the tools at $300 each plus shipping from my place.
Monies must be received in advance, I cannot support a big group purchase. To get this pricing we need to have at least four..
The tool if you were to buy directly from him is $325 + $25 shipping.
So by doing this group purchase you can save about $40.
I have two that have committed and 2 more that will get back to me this next week.
The tool comes in two specs.
FS Tool
Min of 45 mm stroke (this allows tool to open) and maximum bore of 77mm
Med Tool
Min of 53 mm stroke (this allows tool to open) and maximum bore of 100mm
Let me know if you have anyother questions.
Jon
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Why do you need a tool when the tech people have them available?
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Because they are fragile and they break.
If you have your own then you dont have to worry.
We asked to use one a couple years ago and told it was lost in the motorcycle department or wouldnt work on specific bike because of bore and stroke minimums for the tool.
4 bikes measured with entrants tool, gather funds for the use of tool and called it the day.
Also the BUB meet has allowed use of the tool as well. FIM also allowed the use of the tool. Can be used at USFRA meets also. Can be used at ECTA as well... Aussies might even like it....
Just trying to cover ones own arse.....
Jon
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Wow, what great information, I remember when I told the head of the bike inspectors years ago and was told to buy one and the SCTA would pay me for it, I did and was told they would get their own.. :roll:
Then while an SCTA inspector was measuring my bike it was broke and I was out the 325.00 plus shipping..now between, Tom, Russ and Rob etc, they have it covered, FIM liked it so much that Mike (Ack Attack) gave them his to use for other record certifications.
Jon, thanks for getting the bike guys up to speed.. :wink:
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One of these days they'll invent a device for measuring those of us with off-center holes (...said the proctologist who has a ZX12R).
I'm quite ignorant on the subject so will ask. What would it take to design one of these that would work for those of us where the sparking plug isn't smack dab in the middle? Who do I gotta ask to invent this -- the guys at my local engineering college, or maybe the Off-Center Spark Plug Hole Manufacturing Corporation?
(No, I'm not going to switch to a 'Busa just to avoid undoing the cams in impound...)
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Wish I had an answer for that John,
Looks as if you will be pulling cams for the time being...
Jon
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Make your own for your own engine. I did it for the 12 port GMC I was using. Plug was 1-1/2" off center. I was lucky to have a flat top piston. I took pictures how it worked with the head off and on. Then did it at Bonneville plus showed the picts to the certifier and it was allowed....Think outside the box... Good Luck
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thanks jimmysix, you have any pictures you can post of the tool???
Jon
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He took that idea from the bikers that have used those methods since 1980.
The 2nd car guy I saw use it was Elmo on the Ardun.
"History does repeat it's self if your memory is short enough."
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O O<---3"
\ /
\ /
\ /
X<----Pivot
/ \
/ \
/ \
O O<---3"
If the pivot area is shaped right this would work with any plog hole .
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My original "sketch" described an X shaped tool .
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How do you measure the stroke with this tool?
DW
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will be it's own reward.
The CC beaker was used at Bonneville many years ago and solved
many problems that could not be handled another way. In most cases.
Pulling a head is just lost time for everybody.
How much time are you willing to spend ? :roll:
It looks like some of the "Years ago" are not ago enough.
"It seems to be more hysterical than historical."
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Dan
Stroke measuring tool for an off canter plug
..................l.l<----------guide for a depth gauge
..................l.l.......l.l..
................. l.l===l.l<---sleeve over a stud screwed in a head bolt hole
..................l.l.......l.l..
When the garage is cold it's more fun to sit in front of the wood stove
screwing around drawing pictures on the computer .
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Jack D. has no clue where I got the idea for what I made. None, Niet, Nada. etc...He has no idea what it looks like or how it was made.
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Go back to sleep.
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Did it first.
It would seem that Dan is in the dark about the offset plug deal also.
And the CC Beaker works for more things. 8)
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I'll admit that I don't understand. In the case of a 12 port GMC where the plug angle is 90 deg. to the stroke travel how does the tool make a right angle from the top of the stroke to the bottom of the stroke? How do you add or subtract for deck height?
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Deck height ain't nuthin.
Deck height is not part of the stroke measurement.
You bring the piston up to TDC, zero the tool , and measure the travel to BDC. All of that assumes the tool travels straight the same distance as the piston. If the tool was at an angle to the bore, a 4 inch piston travel will produce a dimension that is greater depending on the angle.
If you are not straight over the piston with the tool any angle will produce other results.
In an angle plug application, fluid works best without all the monkey motion.
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Dan. The Skinner plug is only a few degrees off verticle.
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I guess it would depend on if you were buying or selling. :roll:
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COOL.
I've let a record go, just because I didnt want to pull the heads of a bike.
look out. :D
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Jack D -- I'm not a techie, so maybe you could explain the liquid method to me. How do you account/estimate/allow for seepage past the rings?
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You are looking for a repeat each time you turn the crank from top to bottom. If you lose a bit each time as you say, A heavy oil like 90 weight or even STP will seal the rings with just a little bit and allow the rest of the fluid to be ATF that is normally used. You are not building any pressure in the jug beyond the weight of the fluid. Even that can be reduced to almost nothing if you lower the beaker after the air is out to reduce the overall height. Even air trapped in a angled chamber can be bled most of the way by opening a valve slightly after the fluid is introduced. The little mess required for the cleanup inside the jug is nothing compared to pulling the head. Ask Kott about the guy that required him to remove a head and then couldn't do the math after.