Landracing Forum
East Coast Timing Association => ECTA Rules Questions => Topic started by: 116ciHemi on April 17, 2010, 08:07:55 PM
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So, I have been looking at classes to run in, and I will probably end up running G/GRS for simplicity. However, the Escort fits every letter of the rules for the classic category with one exception: it was made in 1982, one year after the cutoff. The 1981 Escort was identical to the '82 except that in '82 they added the Ford logo to the grille and put slightly shorter gears in the 4 speed trans. Is there any way I could apply to run in f/cpro or f/cgalt if I could get a grille from a 1981 Escort? It is really just a golly gee whiz question than anything else.
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1981 is the cutoff for classic. No matter how many modifications you make to a 1982 car it would still be a 1982 !
That is my take on it.
Charles
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i think if you can prove with documentation that the core body design is the same you should be able to run it..... and hey, were talkn ECTA here.... i heard you could run just about anything down there...
kr
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Cut the VIN off it, put the grille in, call it an '81. You ain't done no one wrong.
Stan
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"...coupes and sedans produced between 1928 and 1981..." Some 1982 model-year vehicles were produced in 1981. Your Ford should have a manufacture month/year on the tag on the door jam.
Mike
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It was made in June of 1982. I don't have ideas any trying this anytime soon, I am mainly just bench racing. Running f/cgalt would probably allow me to not have to spend a a lot of money on the car, while still giving me an achieveable goal to shoot for. I couldn't even run in production since it has an engine swap. (taller deck height block)
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Run in f/grs I think the record is 112.Or use a leaf blower an chase down an evo. :roll:
terry
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"...coupes and sedans produced between 1928 and 1981..." Some 1982 model-year vehicles were produced in 1981. Your Ford should have a manufacture month/year on the tag on the door jam.Mike
The operative word is "produced". If it doesn't fall within those dates then it is not a "classic".
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Vehicles will include post-vintage cars such as the 1949-50 Ford and Mercury through the popular Muscle Car years of Camaros, Mustangs, and Chargers.
I fail to see where an Escort falls into muscle car territory.
DW
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I should say that an Escort doesn't fall into the "muscle car" definition -- although I do think I remember that a factory turbo Escort was available one or two years. Still wasn't a Muscle Car -- but it wasn't without some redeeming features.
Back to Walt, the real name of 116ciHemi -- for those of you that haven't met him - he's the real thing we talk about when we say that land speed racing needs to have young folks catch the fever - because in a few years they'll be the ones with the experience to help yet another generation of newbies get started. I have to admit -- when Walt introduced himself to me at Maxton last weekend I didn't figure out who he was for a couple of seconds. Yikes -- makes me feel OLD! But it's pretty obvious that he's heading in (what we think is) the right direction. So what if he asks about putting an '82 into the '81 and younger classes? He's learning - and exposing some of the rules for all to see and better understand. Thanks, 116. :wink:
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No problem, Walt is more than welcome.
Its been several minutes now and I still can't fit an Escort into a muscle car framework.
DW
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I fail to see where an Escort falls into muscle car territory.
DW
It's got a four speed and a hemi. :-D
Like I said, this was more idle thinking than anything else. I have more room to play with in G/GRS, and I can try out more ideas there than I could in any classic category.
I do have one other question- Do the dates for the "classic" category ever move up? The normal age definition of of a classic (at least from what I have seen) is 25 years old (and, no I don't really condsider the Escort a "classic" in the normal sense of the term). Just a question.
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They picked the '81-'82 break point to keep some bodys Camaro record safe. Or something like that. So the break shouldn't change.
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Probly right, Rich -- but they let the Monzas in.
Stan
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The classic category came about in the SCTA do the aero developments in production cars. In generial the cars built AFTER 1981 became more aerodynamic and the older cars were considered uncompetitive. This also led to fears of losing competitors due to there cars no longer being able to set records any longer. Other than that I'd run your "''81" Escort if I were you.
By the way Walt, I've heard some guys call their cars '92 when they were built in '82. It doesn't change the class you run in, no matter what other think.... it happens all the time. If the body / chassis is a long running one (say fox mustangs) there all the same car.
This could get interesting now..........
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The line from Keith Turk is that if the body is identical to an '81, I could run it. Not that I will, but that is what he said.
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Seems I read somewhere that if the car is virtually identical to the 81 model, that a later year car could be used in Classic category. As someone mentioned, 81 is a year that was picked to cut off newer cars that had an areo advantage. If the aero is the same for the 82 escort as the 81 escort . . seems to be no unfair advantage to fit the 82 with the 81 trim and "presto" you have an 81. But I've been wrong plenty of times before.
And considering the Muscle car angle on this, . . . . was the Vega in production trim really a muscle car? Should Vegas be banned from Classic?
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Well -- I believe I remember my sister having one of the few Vegas that came with a factory V-8. 'Twas quite a little hot package (the car, not her, although I have heard from some of her boyfriends. . .)
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"They picked the '81-'82 break point to keep some bodys Camaro record safe."
Rich,
If you truely think that is the reason for the creation of the Classic Category find that "protected" record and race against it with your Monza.
DW
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There's no rule to say that a 78 camaro can't be put into a regular class, just not real smart if there is a good record already established. It's like allowing girls to play boys sports, there is usually no advantage for the girl. The other way around is another story. :cheers:
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Dan; "Or something like that" My disclaimer. And I have no idea where the "Mussel Car" thing got involved with "Classic" Is a '49 Ford a Mussel car? Don't think so. And neither was my Vega (not Monza) Come to think of it there had to be some body that changed in '82 that caused that year to be picked. I bet it was a Camaro.
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Ding, ding. Ding! We have a winnah!
1981 2nd gen:
(http://firsttraderegistry.com/forsale/4_08/81camaro/1981%201987%20006.jpg)
1982 3rd gen:
(http://www.camarotech.com/images/CamaroThirdGen-IROC-3quarter_500.jpg)
Mike
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And it took a banger fanatic to answer the question.
DW
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Ding, ding. Ding! We have a winnah!
1953 Stude -- I wanted to see a real classic against a 81 and 82 Camaro
(http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii43/cajunkid5690/Venable-Stude-0228101.jpg)
1981 2nd gen:
(http://firsttraderegistry.com/forsale/4_08/81camaro/1981%201987%20006.jpg)
1982 3rd gen:
(http://www.camarotech.com/images/CamaroThirdGen-IROC-3quarter_500.jpg)
Mike
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What you don't want to see is against a Monza.
Stan
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And Four-Barr -- you forgot the optional (European) headlight covers on the 82 (?).
Stan
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And Four-Barr -- you forgot the optional (European) headlight covers on the 82 (?).
Stan
Yawn! "Classic 1981" is an oxymoron. :mrgreen:
Mike
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SCroll Up... I got the 53 Stude near the 81 Camaro,,, wrong direction.. but hmm ?
Charles
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What you don't want to see is against a Monza.
Stan
Because I don't have a Monza !!! and if I did I probably could not fit in the lil thing....
Charles
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Wrong direction? We'll find out in August.
Stan
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Stan,
I get what you mean.... ???? ~~~~ !!!!!!.....
My guess is straight and true, but yes we will see....
Charles
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And it took a banger fanatic to answer the question.
DW
Everything I know about Camaros I learned in 15 seconds on www.google.com :cheers:
Mike
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116,
Sorry to hijack your thread a bit,, as you can see there is a lot of ongoing debate and opinions on the "Classic" category. Many think it expands a bit on the vintage category, some think it's for post War muscle cars, there are a bunch of opinions... however you will soon find out that opinions make good conversation, some decent research, but the rule book is all you have to fall back on.
So if your car meets the rules for classic class (weather or not a true classic or muscle car) then rock on and build it as you see fit within the body and aero rules of the chosen class and keeping with all the required safety/tech rules for the given class/speed.
Good luck and make sure you do a build diary with pics..
If you need anything, we are all here to help (encourage, confuss, harass etc.. lol all in good spirit) :cheers:
Charles
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The classic class is a SCTA-BNI lakes and Bonneville catagory. What ECTA or others do in Texas, Loring and Maxton assoc's. is up to them. Don't bring it to El Mirage or the salt and argue with the inspectors that it's legal some where else.I doubt very much the the rules will be changed to allow them to run except in a time only class. It took around three years putting the classic class together. Hours of research and records had to be added to the rule book. Plan ahead on what you build.
ASK DW what it took.
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I wrote a long, involved and thought provoking treatise on the Classic category. Unfortunately I tried to illustrate it with a jepg that I had previously posted on some other thread hear at some time in the past. Doing so will cause you to lose whatever you had written and I'm to bummed to do it again. Just thought you all would like to know.
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The classic category came about in the SCTA do the aero developments in production cars. In generial the cars built AFTER 1981 became more aerodynamic and the older cars were considered uncompetitive. This also led to fears of losing competitors due to there cars no longer being able to set records any longer. Other than that I'd run your "''81" Escort if I were you.
By the way Walt, I've heard some guys call their cars '92 when they were built in '82. It doesn't change the class you run in, no matter what other think.... it happens all the time. If the body / chassis is a long running one (say fox mustangs) there all the same car.
This could get interesting now..........
Mike is right, that is how I remember the club discussion on this class.
Tom G.