Landracing Forum
Misc Forums => NON LSR Posting => Topic started by: desotoman on February 10, 2010, 02:15:25 PM
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At least one car manufacturer gets it. I am sure this car will eventually run at a Salt Flats or Dry Lake near you. Can you imagine this car with a 500 hp motorcycle engine in it. :-o :-o :-o
Tom G.
This $600 car is no toy and is ready to be released in China next year.
The single-seater aero car totes VW (Volkswagen) branding.
Volkswagen did a lot of very highly protected testing of this car in Germany, but it was not announced until now where the car would make its first appearance.
The car was introduced at the VW stockholders meeting as the most economical car in the world is presented.
The initial objective of the prototype was to prove that 1 liter of fuel could deliver 100 kilos of travel.
Spartan interior doesn't sacrifice safety
The aero design proved essential to getting the desired result. The body is 3.47 meters long and just 1.25 meters wide, and a little over a meter high. The prototype was made completely of carbon fiber and is not painted to save weight.
The power plant is a one cylinder diesel positioned ahead of the rear axle and combined with an automatic shift controlled by a knob in the interior.
Safety was not compromised as the impact and roll-over protection is comparable to the GT racing cars.
$600 car gets 258 mpg
The Most Economic Car in the World will be on sale next year:
Better than Electric Car - 258 miles/gallon: IPO 2010 in Shanghai
This is a single seated car
From conception to production: 3 years and the company is headquartered in Hamburg , Germany .
Will be selling for 4000 yuan, equivalent to US$600..
Gas tank capacity = 1..7 gallons
Speed = 62 - 74.6 Miles/hour
Fuel efficiency = 258 miles/gallon
Travel distance with a full tank = 404 miles
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I know VW has a 175mpg diesel in development, but that is amazing.
I find the $600 thing to be curious. It's hard to buy any diesel engine for $600.
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That was my thinking as well. All carbon fiber and a diesel engine for $600. I'll believe it when I see it!!
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Read about this a few years ago. Not true except that vw was working on a 1 liter as an engineering exercise. It was originally posted in the uk in 2002.
The Truth:
The Volkswagen (VW) L1 is a real car, seats 2 and if released would have a price tag $25,900.
Volkswagen has designed and built the L-1 with an eye toward better gas mileage and lower carbon emissions. It has not yet resulted in a production model to be released to the public, but Former VW chairman Dr Ferdinand Piëch actually drove the L1 to the VW shareholders' meeting in Hamburg from his office in Wolfsburg which lies about 84 miles South of the German port. Piëch recorded 317.4mpg with an average speed of 43.5mph.
The two passenger car is equipped with a carbon fiber body, 299cc single-cylinder diesel engine, anti lock brakes, driver's airbag and an electronic stability program. The L1's price tag of $25,900 was much higher than what the German automotive company targeted for consumers.
The UK Telegraph followed the progress of the L1 over the years reported that the project had been scrapped and later restarted. The L1 has design challenges such as the passenger having to sit bobsled style with their legs around the drivers seat as well as excessive noise and vibration adding to passenger discomfort.
Piëch now heads VW's supervisory board and is still working on fuel efficient vehicles for the German automaker. The L1 appeared to be a stepping stone and a learning tool to design more efficient vehicles. Piëch said, "We will never build a one-litre car, but it could give us the knowledge to build a two-litre car."
The VW company also introduced a 3 liter vehicle, the Lupo, which seats four and goes about 78 miles to a gallon of fuel.
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I can't remember where I read it, but the VW L1 proof-of-concept in a realistic consumer trim, got 175mpg with 2 people at freeway speeds, with a 850cc turbo diesel hybrid powertrain a couple years ago. It had a Cd of about .2? Not sure whatever happened to it or if my facts are correct.
It certainly can be done. But would people buy it?
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Any of the above listed scenerios are quite impressive. Even at only 78mpg, it's still pretty cool.
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I've been all over this for a long time.
Concept cars are simply that, if a version comes to market it will look far different than this. ( key bad word, WIDER)
It is 49" Wide X 39" Tall X about 11 feet long. The CD is variously reported from .16 to .195. The Frontal area is 13.27 sq ft. Frontal view is Ugly, side and rear are HOT.
Google VW L1 and pleasure yourself, LSR GT fans.
Bob W
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kinda looks like the micro car : Peel P-50 , built many years ago
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My 1981 VW Diesel rabbit got over 50MPH.
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My 1981 VW Diesel rabbit got over 50MPH.
And I bet one could be had for a bit less than $600 :-)
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_fTAPwPIIjc :cheers:
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My 1981 VW Diesel rabbit got over 50MPH.
And I bet one could be had for a bit less than $600 :-)
The pickup was a couple hundred more. They seem to hold better value. LOL
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Over 50mph? Must have had a stiff tailwind. :evil:
There have been several cars for US sale that hit 45mpg or higher in real world conditions, but it's funny that most all were from 20 years ago or more.
In the same time period V8 and V6 engine output and fuel economy climbed dramatically, while ultra-economy technology has faltered for the most part.
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Better carry an extra ignition box if you want to get anywhere.............. 8-)
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this is how far we have devolved....much like our government efficiency...
1990 geo metro 53 mpg city 58 mpg highway factor rating
we got more than that on multiple occassions..
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/calculatorSelectEngine.jsp?year=1990&make=Geo&model=Metro%20XFI
Honda 52 highway factory...1990..
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/calculatorCompareSideBySide.jsp?column=1&id=6410
Honda 55 mpg highway factory 1992....
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/calculatorCompareSideBySide.jsp?column=1&id=8719
I mean do we even have a fricken hybrid today for 25,000 that can get that mileage highway..?...
Joe :)
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But Joe that was 20 years ago.
Emissions, and safety has changed the car dramatically since then. (complexity and weight)
I remember in the early 80's Ford had a diesel Escort. One of my friends commuted in one. Reportedly over 75 MPG.
Didn't perform for Shit, but in a suburban commute, you don't need performance. (so says him)
In a lot of the cases the cars have been there, but the largest part of the AMERICAN public does not want them.
The market drives the product.
The market will change.
The government will make the market change.
OOOPS sorry,
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But Rick, that was 20 yrs ago, there are more advanced engineering practices
and lighter weight materials today..........
Joe :)
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This 258 mpg car is reality.
it's a two seater and was built to a safety standard which would still match to the today laws.
Ferdinand Piech drove this car on long distance (on regular base) at the Autobahn and on country roads with this 258 mpg.
The prize to sell this car was to the time he was built, calculated between 25 000 and 30 000 dollars.
But the market was not there to release them.
Currently VW developed, based on this car, a very similar car which looks a little bit more aggressive than the original.
The idea is to sell this one in a range of 20 - 25 000 dollars. the different is, that this new version is not so radical, also this car will be only good for 160+ mpg.....
There was the car which Piech drove and some more prototype - the number is between four and ten - depends how ready they was. The Piech car is now in a museum close to Sinsheim - not the big technic museum - a smaller one which is run by a NSU/Audi enthusiast. The owner got also a second prototype, from this one is only little known.
But the fact is that VW had built - what we call "a one litre (per 100 km/62 miles) car" - and this was proved on the street and not only on a test stand or on the PC.
The trouble with this concept is, that the most people don't like them, they have to miss there navigator, Ipod, electric seat.......also the air condition is minimised.
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But Joe, just for the sake of argument,
at what cost.
If VW decided to not market their project in the EU, because of too high cost, what makes you think that the average American motorist will purchase.
What is the distance border to border of West Germany? Spain? France? all three not even close to from Dearborn, to Bendover.
True urban cars have a place, but it will be a very long time before they are in use here.
YMMV (pun intended)
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Rick, this summer I'll try to pay attention to how many BMW Smart Cars we see on the interstates - out in the boonies. I have seen many Priuses (?) going down the road on I-80 -- but that's not their intended use, is it? I know that up here, where we get lots of snow, that the super-economy cars aren't as popular in less-snow areas -- maybe because the small amount of horsepower available isn't sufficient to move the car, contents, and the 12" of snow in front of the tires.
I'll stick with my 25 mpg truck. Okay, 20 mpg in the winter in snow and four wheel drive, but still pretty good for a 7,000# vehicle. And mine will tow a 26' race trailer across the Rocky Mountains without even changing gears.
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I wasn't going to go into electrics, and hybrids, but since you mentioned it, I agree that most if not all are designed for urban and suburban use. I have seen a few Priuses on the interstate but they don't make sense.
I am still of the belief that the folks that purchase an electric or hybrid are simply making a statement. (Green or whatever)
Otherwise they make little sense considering carbon footprint, and "Extended Useful Life" that is required.(150K design intent)
I personally think the SMART, and the Ford Ka, are wonderful vehicles, and if I still commuted 2.5 miles from Dearborn to Dearborn 6 or more times a week, I would probably use one. Hell, I drive a souped up 50 cc Honda motorbike around town in good weather.
(I'm still scared of big motorbikes)
For me, for real trips I'll stick to my 99 Grand Marquis or the 99 E350 Diesel van. (for the time being)
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Rick, Bulletin, The wall came down 20 years ago, it's just Germany now..LOL
The car I believe Pork is referring to is the VW Up! Lite, which from the side profile is visually very similar to the VW-L1. But to be practical, it was widened to a four seater and is "going on sale" somehere soon.
Considering all the Bikey Trikey Streamliny small specialty outfits out there, I'd like to think a tandem car category would sell at least on a small scale. There's a lot sillier stuff on the road.
If this original VW-L1 reached production status, the first generation Insights' Aero would pale in comparison, even as it is still currently the most Aerodynamic gas engined car ever produced.
Pork, if I ever make it back over there, there's about a half dozen Car guy museums within an hour of your place I need a tour of !
Bob W
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My 1981 VW Diesel rabbit got over 50MPH.
I had a 1980 Rabbit diesel I bought new ( on purpose) , easy 45+ mpg all day long. A strong head wind on a trip to Calliefornia brought the mileage down to about 38 mpg as I had the pedal on the floor for many miles to maintain 50mph.
Sold the Rabbit after I got back to AZ
:-D
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My commuter/work car is a 2003 Honda Civic "HX" (now gone) 5 speed. Continously 38+ mpg with all town driving. With any freeway I get over 40. 13 gallon tank and my norm is 420 -440 miles and take a little over 11 gallons. Can't believe they stopped building any of the "H" models.............
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Pork, if I ever make it back over there, there's about a half dozen Car guy museums within an hour of your place I need a tour of !
Bob W
Bob, the Wanner..... :-D
About museums around my place....yes.....ask Joe Amo (joea).....that I can be a good tour guide 8-)
By the way - the one I wrote is not so well known - also this one is a two seater with also very narrow track - the VW Up! Lite is a other mpg idea from VW.....but one for the family.......the other is from the base idea more for single person who has a long daily drive to work and always drives alone....but if necessary could transport a passenger.....some people mention that the second seat is only a substitute luggage space for the 24 pack beer..... :cheers:
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Kind of like the back "seat" in my Toyota Tecoma. :-D
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jimmy, according to my buddy Rick :), we dont have
the technology to produce cars today that get the
mileage of cars 10-20 yrs ago d/t emissions/safety and
lack of interest....
luv ya Rick...
this car thing to me is a great reflection of our society......
Joe :)
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In 1990, a typical V8 produced 220HP or less HP, and ran under 20 mpg highway. Today, most all V8's are over 300HP, and even the pickups get over 20mpg, with some cars getting over 30mpg. To put it in perspective, the four bangers should now have 150HP and get 75+ mpg.
Back on subject, I honestly believe there is a solid market for a narrow single seater with super high economy IF:
Configure it with optional add-on modules. A storage module, a two passenger module, a supplemental 50HP power module.
Like a cross between a railroad car and a trailer, the modules could be easily plugged into the control module to form a train, and the vehicle be configured to perform multiple tasks.
People Hauler - Add 2 passenger modules and a power module if in mountainous areas.
Delivery wagon - Add one or more storage modules and a power module if necessary.
Commuter - Control module only.
High Speed Commuter - Control module + power module.
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joea...it's funny that the knowledge doesn't exist. All the smog checks my "H" has done in 7 years show almost zero emmisions. I should say I run Mobil 1, change it once a year and have the air pressue at 40+ psi on the kinniest tires I can get.
Some say I'm cheap... I see it as able to buy pistons for my race car instead of fuel for the work car............................... :cheers:
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BUT JOE
:-D
Actually of everyone on this list, I BELIEVE the knowledge, talent, and engineering process exist at one American car company to do just what we are talking about here.
After being a part of the Fuel Cell Fusion program, and going as fast as we did, I believe young men like that group at Ford can do really great things in powering automobiles.
But
I just don't believe that the small, cheap, economy car will sell in huge quantities to be more than marginally profitable in the US.
Actually I hope I am wrong, After all, I'm just an old dinosaur who has been out of the design community since 1997 and earthshaking changes have occurred at Ford. As the companies current status shows, most of those changes are to the good.
It is not the same company I retired from. I am thankful for that.
Sorry for making this a "Ford" commercial, I didn't intend to but sometimes shit happens.
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Rick, it is your precise response that many of us are/were hoping
to elicit......perspective from within the industry...to help
us come to grips with the large gap between what many of us
think we understand and the reality of today....
i guess i shouldnt expect anything less from the average american...who
wants a death proof vehicle with every bell and whistle known to man, for
their lazy spoiled asses, with lots of bling and excess size to impress their neighbors.......instead of efficiency that would fit
their pocketbooks......again...to me...its much like the our government......they want it all
at an expense that no one seems to care about, right now...
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I had a 76 Chevette while I was going to school. It got great milage ( Don't ask me how great... just a lot better than my F-250.) That was probably the funnest car I ever had. It took me forever to get in and out of, and people told me it looked like a bunch of Shriners should be in it with me... Good car none the less... handled like a Go_Kart with a glove box.
The only complaint I had with it was the timing belt(s).. I got to the point where I could change one at night in a rain storm in 20 minutes... 45 minutes if I didn't have a flashlight.
Ahh the good old days :-D
:cheers:
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My MicroCar love affair was a Chevy Sprint. No radio, no A/C, manual trans, 3 cyl carburated engine. 48mpg highway at 70+ mph, over 50mpg in the slow lane. I really enjoyed getting up on three wheels going around corners, but passengers were often less enthusiastic. I'm 6'1" and I fit better in a Sprint than a Corvette.
I actually made money by driving it. You could take the standard IRS deduction per mile for work related trips, and going to night school for classes related to my business. IIRC, every mile I drove put about ten cents in the bank including purchase and maintenance.
But to be honest, I'm no longer in the market for such a car. I work 3 miles from home, and really don't drive far enough (other than major trips) for an economy car to pay for itself.
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I had 1959 Isetta in high school (1971) ... the OE engine gave it up, I installed a Honda 450cc motorcycle engine in the car. My first hotrod. :-o