Landracing Forum
El Mirage => El Mirage General Chat => Topic started by: turborick on November 09, 2009, 12:31:40 PM
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Car 788 Nebulous Theorem III will be getting "Freshened Up" this winter and could use some help. If you would like to help in some way please give me a call or pm me. 661-618-7706 The car is located in Palmdale, Ca
Our plans for next year include turbo charging the flathead V8 that went 280mph NA this year. our goal will be in the 325 -350mph zone.
Our near future plans will be with our still under development purpose built engine that should go well into the 400mph range.
(http://yacoucci.com/images/788.jpg)
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I can help you sizing the turbo and testing different combinations on the simulator. We can test different camshaft and compression to see what is optimum. We can also getting timing curve that will be safe and effective. I would love to be involved. Of course everything would have to be via internet as we are in PA.
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Rick,
Need a car polisher?!! :roll: Not much else I could do anyway!
Lynda
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:-o Lynda! I'm curiouse as to what your car polishing technique would be!????? (Makes my mind hurt!) Lya. Crow.
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If I was a little closer I'd be there with bells on. :-D
Fred
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I don't know what is a good number for a turbo flathead on gasoline to make. Should of asked if is going to be gasoline. Just started messing with it.
I like the long power curve with little drop off. Should have a big gearing window.
Specs so far:
28 psi, 8:1 comp, single Garrett GT4202, icewater intercooler, 90mm throttle body, 1-5/8 headers, 3" collector
622hp @ 5000rpm, 734 lbs/ft @ 4000 with safe tune up though computer says there is a mixture / atomization problem.
(http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq89/robfreyvogel/stuff%20for%20forums/flatheadhpdata1.jpg)
(http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq89/robfreyvogel/stuff%20for%20forums/flatheadhpgraph1.jpg)
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Rob how do the numbers stack up with Methanol instead of Gas ?
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The meth numbers (nonintercooled) will be a little higher because the mixture can be run a little rich and cover some of the mixture problems associated with a flat head. Not a lot higher though. At least that has been my experience. I do not have a lot of experience with flatheads though.
What is good HP number for a blown flathead on gasoline to make? On fuel? Not at the dragstrip but at the salt.
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The meth numbers (nonintercooled) will be a little higher because the mixture can be run a little rich and cover some of the mixture problems associated with a flat head. Not a lot higher though. At least that has been my experience. I do not have a lot of experience with flatheads though.
What is good HP number for a blown flathead on gasoline to make? On fuel? Not at the dragstrip but at the salt.
Our NA motor made about 400hp on fuel and we reved to 7000rpm
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Rick,
Need a car polisher?!! :roll: Not much else I could do anyway!
Lynda
Ok you got the polisher job :-D
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If I was a little closer I'd be there with bells on. :-D
Fred
Thanks Fred I know you would
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I don't know what is a good number for a turbo flathead on gasoline to make. Should of asked if is going to be gasoline. Just started messing with it.
I like the long power curve with little drop off. Should have a big gearing window.
Specs so far:
28 psi, 8:1 comp, single Garrett GT4202, icewater intercooler, 90mm throttle body, 1-5/8 headers, 3" collector
622hp @ 5000rpm, 734 lbs/ft @ 4000 with safe tune up though computer says there is a mixture / atomization problem.
(http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq89/robfreyvogel/stuff%20for%20forums/flatheadhpdata1.jpg)
(http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq89/robfreyvogel/stuff%20for%20forums/flatheadhpgraph1.jpg)
14psi, 7:1 GT4294, water/meth injection. figure about 54 lbs per minute 6600rpm
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Rick,
Do you want me to try those number (7:1) and 14 psi on the software?
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Rick,
Do you want me to try those number (7:1) and 14 psi on the software?
yea try it
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Well here what the software says.
1) does not like the 7:1 comp Best results achieved at 10:1
2) If you run it a little rich, it will take 20 psi of boost to make 630hp. Very safe timing curve.
3) Bonneville temp and elevation are a problem. The extra pressure ratio (elevation) at the turbo combined with 95 degree intake air really makes it hard to keep the thing from detonating. I have a hunch that the software is not accurately giving me the intake air temp. it does not consider how far up the intake track the injector is. Farther up the tract gives cooler intake temps.
4) Camshaft spec that you gave me via messenger were very good which surprised me as most turbo engines like a wider lobe separation. Best results were achieved with camshaft run 2 degrees retarded (intake installed at 112).
5) 600hp at 14psi can almost be achieved but not with Bonneville air.
Remember- This is not actual and I've never been real happy about the numbers that I get with alcohol. I usually try to get the best numbers that I can on race gas and intercooler and use those numbers as most of the time I witnessed them to be very close in real life.
I.E. - Most drag guys don't switch to alcohol to make more power, it's just simpler with no intercooler.
(http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq89/robfreyvogel/stuff%20for%20forums/flatheadhpdata2.jpg)
(http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq89/robfreyvogel/stuff%20for%20forums/flatheadhpdata2.jpg)
I will try to see what it will make intercooled on gas next to see if we get better numbers with Bonneville air.
Turbo is sized nicely and we are operating in a good efficiency zone.
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Rick,
You were almost spot on the money.
Using the intercooled race gas trick, program says that it only needs 13psi of boost to achieve 607hp even in Aug Bonneville air.
This info was derived before I got you last email about the intake flow. I will adjust and try again. The numbers will be worst and will take more boost to achieve the same result.
Okay, computer says it will take 15.5psi to get over 600hp with new intake flow numbers.
Do you already have those 7:1 pistons?
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The 7:1 pistons will also work but you will need 18 psi to get the same results and there is nothing wrong with that. Turbo is still right in it efficiency zone (70% at 6000rpm). This will also be a very safe tune. Providing you can keep from running over the connecting rods, you should have no problem. LOL.
Sorry Rick.
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If you guys want to try this program.
http://performancetrends.com/download.htm#eapro
Please do me a favor. If you like it, buy it. Please don't try a workaround to keep it running past the trial period.
It was one of the wisest purchases I ever made with my Hot Rodding money. It save me huge amounts of money and time.
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The 7:1 pistons will also work but you will need 18 psi to get the same results and there is nothing wrong with that. Turbo is still right in it efficiency zone (70% at 6000rpm). This will also be a very safe tune. Providing you can keep from running over the connecting rods, you should have no problem. LOL.
Sorry Rick.
Sounds good 7:1 is about as high as you can go on a flathead without compromising flow.
What turbo did the software like?
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GT4294
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Very nice turbo selection :cheers: