Landracing Forum
Bonneville Salt Flats Discussion => Bonneville General Chat => Topic started by: Paul Songas on September 14, 2009, 09:12:31 PM
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I came across this picture of the Pollution Packer rocket dragster, but behind it appears to be a land speed record car called the Proud American. I have never heard of this car, and I am curious to how it ran. Does anybody have any info???
Paul
(http://www.the-rocketman.com/RPV/dragsters/POLLUTION-PACKER-IN-PITS.jpg)
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Paul, the Pollution Packer has been discussed at least ten times here on the Forum. For those posts, go to the home page of the Forum and search "Pollution Packer" -- and you'll see that some folks here do know of it.
Welcome to the Forum. Your id doesn't tell us much -- where are you, and so on? Don't be afraid to fill in some of the bloanks when you register -- and please consider going back to the profile and tell us some more so we know to whom we're speaking. Thanks.
Jon -- owner/operator of landracing.com
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Long day I'm sure Jon. Seems like (late senator?) Paul is asking about the car behind the PPacker. I've never heard of it, but I'm a LSR newb.
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the car you are asking about is a mockup.
it never ran.
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Paul, the Pollution Packer has been discussed at least ten times here on the Forum. For those posts, go to the home page of the Forum and search "Pollution Packer" -- and you'll see that some folks here do know of it.
Jon -- owner/operator of landracing.com
I came across this picture of the Pollution Packer rocket dragster, but behind it appears to be a land speed record car called the Proud American. I have never heard of this car, and I am curious to how it ran. Does anybody have any info???
Yes I was asking about the car in the back.
Thanks for the info on the car... Too bad it's a mockup it looks like it would be a cool car!
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Proud American.
Tony Fox, the backer of the Pollution Packer, wanted the outright LSR in 1074 and the design was said to be supersonic. Project lasted until 1977 without raising construction finance for the peroxide rocket (35,000 lbs thrust) 45 ft long streamliner. Possible driver was the late Sammy Miller (Vanishing Point rocket funny car 'pilot').
Small amount of information from the book Land Speed Record (Posthumus and Tremayne)
Malcolm UK
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Ooops, I'm guilty of not reading carefully enough. But I'll duck the rotten tomatoes and say that I was getting in a shot on the value of the search tool, okay?
And just to show that I'm not completely brain-dead -- I believe the Senator's name was spelled with a leading "T".
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Paul's question re the Proud American and Pollution Packer may have been answered - but here is the real story.
The foreground car is the original Pollution Packer that set international records on the Bonneville Salt Flats in 1972 for the standing start 1/4 mile, 500 meters, and one kilometer, driven by Dave Anderson. The car was built for Tony Fox by Ky Michaelson - employed by Tony's trash compactor company (Pollution Packer) - using the hydrogen peroxide rocket motor from the X-1 dragster and, later, Tony's Sno-Pony snowmobile dragster driven by Ky. Dick Keller restored and tuned the rocket after it was installed in the dragster.
In 1973, Dave drove the car with a newer rocket motor, the Keller Design HPR-3500, which set the fastest speed in the quarter mile ever turned at an NHRA national event, at Indianapolis during the 1973 US Nationals. Dave later was killed driving the car at Charlotte Speedway in an 1/8 mile drag race using the oval track's pit lane for a dragstrip. He spun the car trying to avoid a dragster crew that was in the shutoff area, the parachute not opening as the car rotated 360 degrees into the first turn wall. Two crew members of that other car were also killed.
During the 1972 record-setting weekend at Bonneville, Craig Breedlove (who was invited along with Art Arfons and Gary Gabelich) showed Tony a model of his proposed new LSR vehicle. Tony considered sponsoring Craig briefly, but the car behind the Polluion Packer was just a fiberglass knockoff of Craig's design with the driver compartment moved rearward. The concept was used by Tony to further promote his Polluton Packer company but no attempt was ever made to actually build the car.
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FR?
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Ya think :roll:
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We'll see what else Mayoman posts. While there are similarities to what FR has posted, the "ban" on him for this Forum is pretty inclusive -- in that he'd need to change quite a few things to be able to register.
Mayoman, I hope you don't take my comment as an insult, nor the comments that others have (or might) made. We've had troubles with a windbag on this Forum and are very sensitive to folks that appear to "lecture" us on topics 'til we get blue in the face from listening. Your post is sort of in that manner -- full of data and so on. Join in the Forum and swap stories about your experiences and interests and what you've raced or built -- you'll fit right in.
Best --
Jon, a/k/a Seldom Seen Slim, the owner of landracing.com
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Sorry to get your undies in a bundle. Just thought you'd appreciate the facts from someone who was there.
The attached shows Craig's concept model with the driver's compartment in the front - and Tony Fox.
Compare that with the car in Paul's photo.
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This mayoman just sent a nasty and name calling message to Jon W. on the landspeed@autox-team web site. He doesn't have the balls to use a real name and will find it won't go far here with his name calling.
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. . . if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck
who else but FNR?
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This looks to me what we call here in Australia a "Dorothy Dixer"...... When one member of parliament asks someone from their own party a question...which is really just an excuse for the second member to talk endlessly on their chosen subject ..invariably themself....
So, Paul Is on Gas asks " oh my, what is this marvelous machine from the Golden Age of LandSpeed Racing that all you ignoramuses have over-looked"...
up steps Mr Mayonaise...""why it's funny you should ask Grasshopper, sit yourself down on the rug and let me expound"...
How bored are you Franklin?.....
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It's easy to tell if a duck has been here?
FREUD
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I need to clean my computer screen more often.
Thot I saw duck droppings on mayo's post.
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Now wouldnt all you people feel like jerks if it wasnt FR????
All I am saying that it is likely 99.9999997% FR, but that isnt a certainty.
I say let the fun begin, and allow Mayo....er....FR....or....whomever make it clear.
~JH
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While I prefer a certain modicum of privacy, I am amazed at the paranoia about FR. Not me.
If you care (or need) to know me check out (I'll make you work for it):
Rodding & Restyling, January 1959, page 51
King of the Dragsters, hard cover 1967 first edition, pages 88 and 89
Tales from the Dragstrip, hard cover 2004 first edition, page 18
My cars are faster than your cars. No brag.
Since these various blogs are often littered with partial facts and much fantasy, I only try to provide the truth. When I have the facts (from actual experience) I am happy to share.
A don't appreciate insults from (anonymous) wannabes, however.
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A don't appreciate insults from (anonymous) wannabes, however.
If you are FR I will insult you however I am neither anonymous or a wannabe.. :wink:
Sincerely,
John Noonan AKA "Ratcliff Hunter extraordinaire"
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Welcome to the board :cheers:
I'll guess Dick Keller, or one of the guys in the background?
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Welcome to the board :cheers:
I'll guess Dick Keller, or one of the guys in the background?
Dick Keller was teamed up with Pete Farnsworth on the Blue Flame car. Pete was at Mike Cooks meet last week with his wife and they were an absolute pleasure to talk with. Wayno
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Wayno, was the couple sitting across from Nancy and me the Farnsworths? They were indeed full of information and gracious hospitality.
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Jon, they were in a motorhome down at the measured mile when I visited with them. I did run into them at the starting line too. That would have been on Wednesday. You might ask Pork pie. He was there. Wayno
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Pete(r) and Lear Farnsworth was very often also in the pits....as I remember they were sitting for a while not far away from Nancy & Jon....Pete was wearing a light creme colored hat, also sometimes they got there cute black white (fur) dog sometimes outside the RV, which parked close behind the Speed Demon pit.
Yeap Pete and Lear are a very nice couple...and both was very deep in our sport....and it could be Pete....if it's Pete.....than we got someone who is also very knowledge about LSR.
By the way...Pete found the X1 dragster....due to this that he also got the original engine and other parts he like to restore the X1 back to running condition - he is looking for some old, special high speed tire from Firestone or Goodyear from 1966-1969....to complete the car.....Firestone was used at first, later they had Goodyear on.....
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My cars are faster than your cars. No brag.
Since these various blogs are often littered with partial facts and much fantasy, I only try to provide the truth. When I have the facts (from actual experience) I am happy to share.
Tell us about your cars, we've been reading for a week about 4 cars over 400MPH and a bike real close, not to mention a Lawn Mower doing 90+ and we love the old stuff also.
This Message Board doesn't tolerate partial facts and fantasy very well either, so you won't find much of it. It's fairly well policed by the people who were there, or officiated the events.
Welcome in...
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During the 1972 record-setting weekend at Bonneville, Craig Breedlove (who was invited along with Art Arfons and Gary Gabelich) showed Tony a model of his proposed new LSR vehicle. Tony considered sponsoring Craig briefly, but the car behind the Polluion Packer was just a fiberglass knockoff of Craig's design with the driver compartment moved rearward. The concept was used by Tony to further promote his Polluton Packer company but no attempt was ever made to actually build the car.
The later Breedlove design and rocket car which was taken over by Steve Fosset and co. is for sale. Already to go 800MPH they say, and beyond.
From what I heard Steve was slated to run the jet powered car just a week after he was killed in his plane crash.
Ticket for the whole whammy: $3 million
Who is this FR person you guys are talking about :?
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Pete and Leah spent most of the week at the shootout down in the spectator area parked next to me, and we spent a good deal of time chatting.
It was a great pleasure to meet them both. In the Morning Pete would go down to the pit area and spend some time there before they came up to the spectator area, so he was at both places from time to time. He and I helped the 757 Camaro unload when they got there.
Pete's motor home and my photo stand are in the background of Slim's photo shot of the lawnmower.
That is Pete standing beside the motor home and I am sitting on top of the ladder tower.
http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii147/SeldomSeenSlim/Top%20Speed%20Shootout%202010/IMG_2711.jpg
One of the most interesting weeks I have spent at Bonneville as we had a group there in the spectator area that shared quite a few stories, between Pete and his wife Leah, stainless, Wayno, Mad Max and the video tower crew Ray and Milt I got to spend the down time with great company.
Larry
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Who is this FR person you guys are talking about huh
I will not speak ill of FR but many will. In truth he doesnt mean any harm but does have an overwhelming ablitiy to 'pet the cat backwards'. He has been banned from this and other forums on multiple occasions because he doesnt know when to let things go, however he does have a wealth of LSR history knowledge and at times I miss the drama he creates. (*but take note that I am the guy who will kick an ant hill to see'em run.)
~jh
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Apologies to Mayoman.
We are all so sensitized to FNR's antics on many more sites than Landracing. No one can argue that he has been a wealth of information from all the magazines he kept that certainly reported the "Golden Days" of thrust - propelled Landspeed Racing.
From yours truly's stand point it's great to have one who had been there done that in the day, reporting facts that aren't backed up by obnoxious, self centered "I know more than you do" antics.
I had the pleasure of meeting Chuck Suba (sp?) when he was on the coast gathering information on what became the "Blue Flame" project and, as I recall, the 'Flame would have been HIS ride had tragic circumstances not happened. Neat guy.
Hope our nasty comments haven't turned you off from relating things the way they truly happened.
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Apologies to Mayoman.
Huh? How did we get to this.
The first post was classic Ratliff.
Then Glen posts that he sent a nasty and name calling message to Jon.
Then the cryptic post with pages from magazines. "My cars are faster than your cars. No brag."
From there you take the leap that he is (maybe) someone else?
I'm not convinced.
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interested bystander-
I was glad to hear that you had the pleasure of meeting Chuck Suba (spelled right).
He was a really sharp guy and friend that I knew from high school days. He went to Evanston Township, and I to St. George, in Evanston, IL.
Chuck was also a great engine builder and tuner.
Driving the X-1, Chuck paved the way for The Blue Flame project, for which he was the intended driver. Unfortunately he was killed in a Top Fuel dragster just as the LSR program commenced.
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Interested Bystander and Jonny Hotnuts got it right.. They showed some class by recognizing the error and apologizing to Mayoman... Mayoman is Not Franklin Ratcliff !!! I have taken the time to do some checking. Dean of LA I am really surprised that you would convict Mayoman on NO evidence. After the Warm reception you got from the Boys of the SCTA...To say their treatment of you pissed you off is really understated... And Now to the GVOB GLEN!! I am going to challenge your assertion that Mayoman sent a scathing email to Jon. {SSS} I KNOW that he did not... So HOW ABOUT SOME PROOF????? Jon, I don't know if you wish to comment or not... I have seen a few sincere posters who have been driven from this web site by the same people time after time.. Yea Glenn I know, you been around a long time, But if you don't remember what I told you in the timing tower in ''05 "to get respect you have to give it first!!!!! Mayoman is the real deal... Bye the bye, the cars he was associated with are faster than yours... Check out the references he gave you.... Mike R. "Don't hang anyone until they are convicted!!!!"
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In my experience with this forum, there have been 2 people with an extraordinary ability to galvanize negative energy. Number one is the infamous Franklin Ratliff (or Ratcliff) and more recently number two is "57 Blown T-bird" ... that Mayoman was mistaking identified as one of them is unfortunate and I suggest that all parties proceed with an eye towards the future and move on.
We must, however, be ever watchful for a reappearance of the first 2 aforementioned parties. They are certainly lurking and waiting for an opportunity to strike.
Joe
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Pookie --
Watch how many n's you put on Gle---. We've got two active here, and there's a big difference. Yours in Berdoo,
Stan
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TOUCHE' Mr. Back.. My error!!! But there is only one GVOB Glen...Mike R.
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Pookster, explain GVOB!
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Golden Voice of Bonneville Mike R
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Amen, Bro.............. :-D
Long Live the GVOB!!!! :cheers: :cheers:
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55chevr, I think you have hit the nail square on the head... Moving on, Mike R.
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Quickly, lest I be accused as being a topic hijacker, and not to denigrate the venerable Glen, seems like I can remember a guy named Flanders who had a pretty good set of chops doing the PA a day or two back.
Might be the same guy doing the PA at last years Long Beach Grand Prix.
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Bruce Flanders?????? What about him?????
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Mrbak,
Not sure what kind of a test re: Flanders you're querying.
He's a pleasant fellow with a great announcing voice who was on the PA in the '70s announcing Speedweek runs.
He occaisionally announced Drag Race events at Orange County Raceway.
I've heard his voice on commercials.
He announced Speedway motorcycle racing for years around Socal.
His dad, Earl, was AMA referee for years.
Bruce may still have a Bonneville motorcycle record .
He has announced the Old Farts Show and Go Hot Rod Show in Riverside, Ca.
He announced Champ Car, when it existed, going to the European Races. (Yrs truly had to feebly fill in for him with his announcing partner, Ike Clanton, at one of the Show and Goes 'cause he was overseas..
He was announcing the IRL part of the Long Beach Grand Prix earlier this year.
Don't know much else.
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Yes, Bruce is outstanding announcing motor sport events......Back in the 1950's I raced a BMW solo bike
and Bruce's dad Earl was the BMW importer. Earl was always very helpfull in keeping my BMW alive.......
I got to know Bruce when he worked with Larry Coleman doing some race meets at Laguna Seca.
Like you noted he was also involved with Speedway racing..........over the years I have lost track of what Bruce was doing...........that is why and what I was querying
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Something made me think he may work at Fontana.
I had a reply from him several years ago when I sent him an e-mail.
Check my post under Rocky R - Bruce F.
I just Googled him. Here is one post:
http://www.racingwest.com/news/articles/19850-acclaimed-announcer-bruce-flanders-now-the.html?email=1?printp=1
FREUD
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Another photo with the Proud American from a French magazine. The Proud American was sold recently with his fantastic transporter.
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You can tell that photo is old. Check out all the custom vans in the background. Good days!!!
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The magazine is from 1972. A car show somewhere in California.
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The car was on display at El Mirage last year, it's a mock up as I was told.
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This looks to me what we call here in Australia a "Dorothy Dixer"...... When one member of parliament asks someone from their own party a question...which is really just an excuse for the second member to talk endlessly on their chosen subject ..invariably themself....
So, Paul Is on Gas asks " oh my, what is this marvelous machine from the Golden Age of LandSpeed Racing that all you ignoramuses have over-looked"...
up steps Mr Mayonaise...""why it's funny you should ask Grasshopper, sit yourself down on the rug and let me expound"...
How bored are you Franklin?.....
Sorry bud way off base.
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the car you are asking about is a mock up.
it never ran.
the car and hauler where sold at one of the Barrett jackson auctions ether last year or the year before. :cheers:
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def. a cool transporter
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I've seen a couple of these in used car lots, and just last week passed one that was parked at WalMart. Different paint job, though. :roll:
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How many went back & read the whole thread here & found a big fat W.T.F. situation drowning in paranoia. I'm surprised that "Mayoman" Dick Keller of "The Blue Flame" still comes to the forum!
Sid.
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Sad, funny and true.... 5 years later.
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What was really sad for me was watching the cab-forward LSR transporter being sold at auction years ago. It marked the absolute end of an era - maybe for the better.
The LSR car was a modified version of an LSR proposal by Craig Breedlove. He showed Tony Fox his idea for the next LSR attempt in his long career, in the form of a scale model. That was always Craig's modus operandi. Tony built the fiberglass mock-up (that's all that was) after modifying Craig's model design by moving the "cockpit" to the rear of the car.
Tony Fox was an entrepreneur showman, and Ky Michaelson built that unique transporter to "stage" the LSR mock-up. He did an outstanding job, in my opinion, as it is still a striking sight today.
I watched the transporter being auctioned on TV with a little nostalgic twinge - and called Tony to let him know what happened. Tony passed away soon afterward - the end of a somewhat controversial era.
I still recall the 1974 SCTA Bonneville Nationals when we brought the monocoque rocket car (a lakester by definition?) to the safety inspection tent. We were running "capped" Goodyear speedway tires on the drag strip, but planned to use Goodyear Bonneville motorcycle tires for FIA standing start records (1/2 kilometer and 1/4 mile). The SCTA inspector was horrified when he asked Tony about the capped tires on the car. Tony responded, "We want to see how fast they will go!"
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does anyone know where that transporter is now?