Landracing Forum
El Mirage => El Mirage Rules Questions => Topic started by: Dakzila on June 13, 2009, 09:58:22 PM
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I'm am old motorcycle drag racer and have decided to try my the speed trails thing. I've sent for a rule book but want to make sure my equipment is going to fit into a class before I get to involved. I've read that there is an "A" class for modified frame motorcycles, and also a "M" class for modified frame motorcycles. Then I read somewhere that the "A" class was only for 3000CC or larger with 2 engines.
I don't think I'll be going to Bonnieville so I trying to find what motorcycle class I would fall into at El Mirage under the SCTA.
I have a frame that has been rake, solid mounted extended swingarm, braced in multiple places, gas tank is mounted to swingarm, less that 1.5 gals in capacity and fiberglass body parts that resemble stock.
I have two engines that I can run.
One engine is a stock 900cc unit that is of the same manufacture as the frame. The engine is completely stock. With this engine would I run in the A-P motorcycle class, 1000cc?
I also have a 1200 cc turbo charged engine of the same manufacture as the frame. Since the manufacture sold this frame with a 1000cc turbo charged engine would I also be able to run this setup in the A-PBG class, 1300cc?
An help would be appreciated..
Buzz
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Buzz, Modified for modified production bikes... basically bikes that are based on production, not stretched over 10% in length. Frame based on production. can be open or partially streamlined
Special construction... the A bike, factory works bike, non production frame, stretched over 10%, unlimited displacement and can have multiple motors, can use hub center steering or forks. can be open or partially streamlined
If your scooters are not stretched more than 10% or original wb and using a frame based on production, you are a modified. But it sounds like you are probably A
I thought I saw you were going to EM this weekend, pick up a rule book at the meet.
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Thanks Stainless...
I might be able to make the modified class. The stock frame WB was around 62 inches and I'm stretched about 5 inches so I'm within the 10% rule.
Thanks for the advise re: the rule book....I'll do that.
Thanks again,
Buzz
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Buzz,
Your bike will not fit the M-class at El Mirage..
Did you make it to El Mo?
J
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John,
Yes, I was at El Mirage yesterday. Had a great time and got to talk to some of bike riders. I'm was hoping to get my bike ready by the September meet but now looks like I'll have build another engine before I come out. The engine I was going to use is a 1260 KZ turbo...don't think I can get close to the numbers that the Suzuki's run so I'm going to build a smaller normal aspirated KZ engine.
I'll have to have a set of pistons made so it might take me some time to source the slugs....
Anyway I'd looking forward to making my rookie run as soon as possible.
Buzz
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If you need help with pistons send me a PM...and good luck with your build of choice.. :cheers:
John
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See John for pistons.
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I did pickup a rule book last weekend and think I'm getting close to picking a class for my bike.
I do have a question.
Since I'll be running at El Mirage my bike frame falls into the "A" class ( special construction).
If I were to put my production, stock and unmodified engine into the "A" frame would I not be able to run A - P, if there is such a class?
Thanks,
Buzz
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Buzz,
I had it typed out that it would not fit as there is no "A" class and went to mod the post and just looked and saw what I wrote... :roll:
We do have a production class at Elmo..what is the bike you have....
J
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buzz go to http://www.scta-bni.org/ (http://www.scta-bni.org/) click on el mirage then click on event procedures on page 21 and 22 there is a spread sheet that show all of the classes this is for el mirage there is no modified class there but there is at bonneville hope this helps willie buchta
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In case you didn't figure out the answer, no, you can't run a production engine in Special Construction "A" class.
P-P describes the frame and engine class. There is also a P-PP and P-PV for production pushrod and production vintage engine.
If you run anything other than a production frame at El Mirage it puts you in the "A" frame class.
There are no limits to engine modifications in gas "G", or fuel "F" engine class. A blower puts you in blown gas "BG" or blown gas "BF".
If you run a pushrod "P" or vintage engine class "V" there are modification restrictions, but then append the G, F, BG, or BF to the engine class.
"A" frame class is un-streamlined, APS is partially streamlined, S is for streamliners - a whole different construction.
And don't forget SC for sidecars and SCS for sidecar streamliners.
In the back of the rule book is a list of numerical codes that give the legal combinations. You have to put the numerical code on the entry form, so if there isn't one, you can't run it.
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Dean, I don't know why it's not allowed to run a production engine in special construction/A class. I don't see any such restriction in the rulebook -- but maybe there's something I've missed. What rule, please?
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Good question. There is nothing in the rule book to stop any frame class with any engine class.
I just took it that since there is no numerical computer code for that combination that you would have a tough time filling out the entry blank.
There are 91 frame/engine combinations listed. If any combo not listed is legal, then P-BF with a full race engine should be ok.
S-P????
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And when filling out the entry codes don't put blown gas for blown fuel as above
Just making my point about how easy it is to make a mistake :-D
JL222 :cheers:
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Okay....so now I understand the Appendix A, Vehicle Data Codes a little better.
So at El Mirage...my 1000cc modified frame Kawasaki would be a; 210/404/A-G, right?
I guess I can understand why there would not be a class for a modified frame and stock engine.
The current engine in my frame is 1260 cc turbo and I'd have no chance of being competitive in A-BG.
Guess I'll build a normally asperated 1000cc engine and stick it in the frame for now.
Thanks for all the help...
Buzz
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Buzz,
Yes you are correct on your codes :cheers:
The bike combo you have most likely as you know get you the 223+ speeds need to run for a record however you could still come out and see how fast it can go, I am sure it would go faster than your your 1000 without a turbo..or Turbo the 1000 and go after the 207 record.?
Good luck either way, you may want to see what your overall goals are and if it is to set a record you may have to consider getting/building a different race vehicle.
John
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IMO, if you don't have to use the 1260 motor to build the 1000, bring the 1260 out next month to get some seat time at least. You'll be better prepared when you run the 1000. Provived you have all the requirements for tech met. Just my 2c.
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Thanks again...
I think I can build a 1000cc engine without cannibalizing the 1260 turbo. I'll keep the 1260 turbo in reserve and put it in the bike after I get a little experience on the dirt, just to see what she'll do.
I doubt I could get anywhere near the A-BG record with the 1260 turbo but I might be able to get close to the A-G record with a normally asperated 1000cc combination.
I may not make the July event but the September meet is a real possibility.
Thanks again and I do appricate all the help....and information........
Buzz
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Thanks to all of you on the forum and those I've met at El Mirage (Dale, Tom, Chuck and the rest whose names escape me right now) I'm beginning to make some real progress on the bike.
I was trying to be ready for the September El Mirage meet, and then the October meet.....now it looks like I'll target the last meet of the year, November.
I've had the bike completely mocked up with the forks, wheels, set of cases, chain, fuel tank and battery box and the sparse body work. All of the necessary frame modifications have been completed and the frame has been blasted and painted.
Most of the miscellaneous parts are setting in the garage just waiting for me to start assembly. If all goes well I hope to have a rolling chassis by next Monday, the 12th.
I plan on using my street bike engine (903cc Kawasaki) for the November testing session so once I get the chassis completed I should be able to get the bike up and running by the end of October. Seems like it's taking a long time to complete this project but I only get to work on the bike when I'm in town, so I get to work on it about 6 hour per weekend!
I'll try to post some pictures of the frame but they may be to large to post.
Thanks again for all the help and advice.
Buzz #1513 1000cc A/G
PS....Unable to post the pictures...files too large..
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Dak, an easy workaround for photos that are too big -- is to post them on a photo site such as Photobucket or Flick and then link to the photo on your post here. I do it also when the file number on the photo is one that's already been used on a photo on the forum. It's a free thing on photobucket unless you do whole bunches -- lke happened to me during the Shootout after World of Speed and Bub's and so on.
Give it a try -- let us see what you've building.
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Thanks SSS, I'll give photobucket a try this evening.....
Buzz
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Okay...let's try this photobucket thing....
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http://s959.photobucket.com/albums/ae75/Dakzila/
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Lookin good! A couple of questions, why so long and why rigid?
Fred
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Why long and rigid.....well.... I'm new to this LSR stuff and I happen to have an old dragbike frame laying around. I just got the LSR bug in June of this year and want to run something before the end of the season. I figured that until I have a chance to learn what's going on, and what works and what doesn't, I'd use some of the parts I have in the garage.
In theory I think the long frame, with the rake, should be stable at speed. I do have some concern about the rigid tail but I'll give it a try and see what happens. I don't plan on running for any records or going flat out until I have a few test runs under my belt. If the rigid frame gives me problems I'll put shocks on the bike for next year (or find a different bike).
Buzz
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Makes sense to me. Use what you got, see if it works, change it if it doesn't. I was thinking of traction more than stability.
Fred
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Buzz, there has been extensive discussion on this Forum about rake, trail, handling, stability, and all of that stuff. Use the search function (I forget which topic the discussion were in, but you'll find 'em eventually). Our nitrous bike is about 6" over stock length and I've been happy with handling at speed -- so there's my two cents' worth on the subject. Another two cents - our production bike is stable, too, and is (by definition) stock length.
Have fun -- building and racing something will give you way more experience than just talking about it and trying to extrapolate the experience of others into what you talk about.
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Fred,
Yeah, traction may be an issue with the engine and me so far forward. I'm using a very tall rear tire and a heavy rim with a heavy stock rear rotor in an effort to add some additional rotating weight to the rear of the bike. I'm hoping the taller tire and additional weight of the rear wheel, rotor & large tire will help absorb some of the engine pulses and smooth our the power delivery.
SSS,
I'll search for the topics on rake and trail, thanks. I realize that all of the faster superbikes seem to running stock rake and trail so that's got to be something to look at.
I did a lot of sand drag racing in the early '80 with a chassis similar to the one I'm building now. The sand drag bike ran a lot of top end and tracked very straight in the soft sand. Of course three hundred feet is a lot different than a mile and a third.....
I"m just excited about the idea of building a different kind of bike than I'm use to building and seeing if any of my previous experience lends itself to this type of top end speed trials.
Buzz
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You might think about putting some lead in your pencil er that is in your swingarm.
Fred
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Great suggestion Fred....both of them! :-D
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Most of us have Microsoft Office. Put the cursor on your picture and right click. Under "open with" click "Microsoft Office Picture Manager." A menu bar will appear. Click "Picture." Go to "Compress" All sorts of options to make the image smaller will appear.
Dak, start a build diary. This is a good project and your drag racing perspective will make it interesting. We can give you advice, too.
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+ on the build diary. Are you comeing to WF?
Fred
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Thanks for the suggestion about the build diary, I'll give it a shot.
Won't be able to make the WF this year but will be at El Mirage on the 25th, as a spectator :-(
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look us up THIS SIDE UP RACING willie buchta
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Willie,
I'll stop by and introduce myself, thanks...
I've noticed your bikes at El Mirage....nice pieces...... and they seem to perform as well as they look!
Buzz
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Thanks for the advice. I started a build diary this evening..Titled "Kawasaki 1000cc A/G". I'll try to keep the build diary updated with info and photos....
Thanks again, to all of you!
Buzz