Landracing Forum
Fundraising, For sale, and Wanted => Items Wanted => Topic started by: desotoman on April 11, 2009, 11:53:25 PM
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Hello Everyone,
I need a spare motor for parts for an Ariel project that I have. Anyone know of or have an Ariel 1000 cc square four motor they want to part with. Just need the motor but would consider what ever you have.
Send me a PM and I will get back to you.
Thanks,
Tom G.
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Did you ask the guy who's selling the Ariel square 4 engine parts on Ebay ?
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Hi John,
I have checked Ebay a couple of times but only pictures of bikes were posted for sale.
Thanks,
Tom G.
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Tom
i know a guy....Ford Kingswood.... he has a bunch of Ariel stuff.... if you call my shop monday, Dutch will give you Ford's phone number.... i will be heading to Utah but Dutch will help ya..
Kent
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Kent,
Thanks for the help, I will call Dutch tomorrow.
Tom G.
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Tom, what are you doing with a Square 4 motor. I have owned a couple of them, Bikes, and think they are really neat motors.
Fred
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Tom
The square 4 head that was on Ebay is gone but Item number: 200330644533 is a lower end .
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John,
Thanks for the heads up.
Tom G.
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Fred,
Back in the 1980's I was really into motorcycles and I stumbled across a Norton Wideline frame that had a Ariel Square Four motor in it. Only problem was it was a basket case and the motor was broken. I would like to get it running and thought it might be a good idea to find a motor to put into the chassis. Would love to run it at El Mirage and have fun.
Tom G.
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Tom, be sure to get a MK II, thats '52 or later I think. the MK I has a single exhaust pipe on each side and the rear cylinders over heated with hard running, ie LSR. :-D
Fred
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Fred,
Back in the 1980's I was really into motorcycles and I stumbled across a Norton Wideline frame that had a Ariel Square Four motor in it. Only problem was it was a basket case and the motor was broken. I would like to get it running and thought it might be a good idea to find a motor to put into the chassis. Would love to run it at El Mirage and have fun.
Tom G.
Sounds like fun!!! Hope it comes together for you!! I'll dad to keep his eyes pealed for you.
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I found your motor! But, it's down under. I was looking at the DLRA page and found this bike from the 2009 meet. http://www.dlra.org.au (http://www.dlra.org.au)
(http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y108/dlra2/2009/speedweek2009-0310-030.jpg)
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Justin,
Here is a deal for you. Find me a reasonably priced motor and you can ride it. How does that sound.
Tom G.
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I found your motor! But, it's down under. I was looking at the DLRA page and found this bike from the 2009 meet. http://www.dlra.org.au (http://www.dlra.org.au)
(http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y108/dlra2/2009/speedweek2009-0310-030.jpg)
I'm not an expert but I can tell you this much: That is the Penn's Vincent, it is one of three factory blown bikes built.It was built by Stuart's uncle in the last days of the marque when he worked and raced for them. It sat gathering dust for years after it was dropped on a record attempt at Lake Eyre in Sth australia in the late 50's, but the family never sold it....it has caused quite a stir on it's reappearance ( you will note it has 'Busa forks at mo')but is yet to claim a serious time slip. I'm thinking you could find a cheaper thing to buy, I dunno but when I asked a German mate who knows his onions ( and Vincents ) what it was worth he just said " whatever the person who wants it the most will pay", a lot!
I hope I got the details right........feel free to correct me .
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Justin,
Here is a deal for you. Find me a reasonably priced motor and you can ride it. How does that sound.
Tom G.
Deal! The hunt is on!!
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there was an article in the los angeles times last week that spoke of a blown vincent catching 365,000 dollars at auction....
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Hi there , you want an Ariel Square Four or a Vincent Twin ? I can get you both , the Ariel would be cheaper !! Than the Vincent was always a expensive piece of kit ,but a blown Ariel is a oneoff sound , and with todays technology can be tuned and made reliable . Hope I can help all the best Harry
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message from australia .how long is el mirage,as i dont know of anyone that is game to hold a square 4 flat out,dont they make a peculiar sound then stop.
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1.3 miles
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Tom, did you find a Ariel motor?
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Tom
Ford still has the Ariel stuff for sale....he wants $6k for all of it
kent
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Cafe Racer is an anglo-american magazine published in the USA. This month's issue has an article by Linda Wilsmore about the British drag racer Stormin Norman. He raced a square four and he talks about it in the article. There are several pictures.
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Tom, did you find a Ariel motor?
Not yet.
Tom G.
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Tom
Ford still has the Ariel stuff for sale....he wants $6k for all of it
kent
Thanks Kent. Talked to Ford waiting for his reply.
Tom G.
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Cafe Racer is an anglo-american magazine published in the USA. This month's issue has an article by Linda Wilsmore about the British drag racer Stormin Norman. He raced a square four and he talks about it in the article. There are several pictures.
Thanks, I will look for that article.
Tom G.
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Why on earth would you want to run an Ariel at El Mirage? They were designed as a "gentleman's" touring machine with no racing or speed aspirations. Plus they are a fairly delicate engine. Lean on them and they break.
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Why on earth would you want to run an Ariel at El Mirage?
Great question. I guess my answer is to be different. From the research I have done they are really not that fragile. Connecting rods were their weak links. Keeping them under 6000 RPM keeps the motor living. Other disadvantage is the intake tract, but that can be fixed. I just think it would be fun.
Tom G.
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Ihad a friend who bought on new in 1957, still has it, he used to drag race it, bone stock ran middle 12s in the 60s. Never had any problems. I had one for 20 years, didnt ride it much, always thought they had a lot of potential.Good luck and have fun.
Fred
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my introduction to the world of vechicle modification was from a guy whose body had size issues --- aka "Shorty" helped me modify my first car a '53 dodge four door---we shaved and frenched it---my buddies loved it, the back seat was dammm near as large as a single mattress he rode a square 4 with no seat other so that he could barley reach the ground with one leg.. man o man was he proud of that thing!!!!!!!!!!!
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Man he must have been seriously "vertically challenged" a Square 4 sits pretty low.
Fred
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prob. could have been classified as a little person
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Tom G.;
I think you would have a lot of fun and interest in a Square 4 LSR bike. In regards to the failures of connecting rods, the rods themselves were not the problem. Ariel used pressed in studs with nuts as opposed to bolts in their rods. The stud material they used would probably be considered inferior today. The real problem was, if these studs were ever over tightened once, it's not a matter of if, but rather when they will break. I've probably got every Ariel shop manual printed, even from the 30's, and not one book gives a torque spec for these studs. And because the stud material is unknown, it would be hard to even guess a torque spec.
The other problem they had was the oil passage in crank that feeds oil to rod bearings. If a Square 4 has set for awhile, the old oil solidifies and the passage plugs solid. When I restored my 1940 Square 4, I literally had to run a long drill thru this passage to clean it out. There have been more than a few old Square 4's, that after found in a shed or barn, the excited new owner would change oil, add gas, and after a few laps around the block, poke a hole in his new find.
If you find your motor and proceed with your project, I have billit H-beam rods for Sq. 4's.
Good luck and have fun,
John
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Worth checking with these guys for any bits you need. When Jim Travis was staying here in the UK with me a while back I took him there and he ended up in the warehouse selecting bits for his collection of Ariels. Come to think of it, it might be worth asking Jim what he's got tucked away.
http://draganfly.co.uk/
Cheers
Robin
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John,
I sent you an email. Thanks for the information.
Tom G.
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Robin,
Thanks for the link. I will ask Jim next time I see him.
Tom G.
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Heres the one you need. Still think sq.4s are tourers not racers.
(http://)(http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/2420/img079eb.jpg)
By weslake (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/weslake) at 2009-12-17
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Heres the one you need. Still think sq.4s are tourers not racers.
You may be correct. On the other hand, Tom is planning on touring the lake bed, not racing. 8-)
He just plans on touring at a higher speed.
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Nice Bike. Thanks for the picture. Is that a wide line Norton frame?
Tom G.
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Is that the frame you have Tom? Or is an aftermarket frame, like a Trackmaster? Dad say that you had bike stuff everywhere in the house that last time he was there. Frame here, motor there, tires some where else... :-D
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Is that the frame you have Tom? Or is an aftermarket frame, like a Trackmaster? Dad say that you had bike stuff everywhere in the house that last time he was there. Frame here, motor there, tires some where else... :-D
Last time your Dad was here, was at least 15 years ago. LOL No more bikes in the house. I have a Norton wide line frame the Square Four motor sits in. I also have an antique Magnesium 4 shoe brake for the front end and a matching two shoe for the rear. (forget the name) The tank I have is an old Dunstall and I think the tail section is a Dunstall also. If I have a picture I will post it. I bought the bike as a basket case 20 years ago, and have keep it as a retirement project. Now it is time collect parts to put it back together.
I was able to contact the guy who originally built the bike. He modified the motor and it had some one off speed parts in it. He got tired of it and sold it to a friend of his who did not listen to him and ended up blowing up the motor. The second guy is who I bought the bike off of. This bike was originally built back in the late 60's or early 70's.
Tom G.
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We need pics... :cheers:
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Here is a picture that was given to me when I bought the bike. This is a photo of a photo so it is not very good but will give you an idea of what it looks like. It is too buried at this time to take a picture of it.
Tom G.
PS. I think the name of the front brake is Fontana.
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Here is a picture of another Bike I have it is a Rickman Road Racer that supposedly came out of Paulferman's (sp) shop in Santa Monica and ran at Daytona in the 1970's. I don't know if the Ariel motor will fit in this frame. I have never measured it to see.
Tom G.
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Being a know-it-all, I'll suggest the Ariel brake, with three holes on the dust cover, is a Ceriani 230mm four leading shoe, as the 210mm Fontana has five holes on the right side cover. The Rickman appears to have a Munch front brake.
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KH,
Thanks. I was just going by what I was told when I bought it.
Tom G.
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Nice Bike. Thanks for the picture. Is that a wide line Norton frame?
Tom G.
Thats a slimline (61 or later). Which makes that machine a bit more acceptable. It would be sacreligious to stretch a wideline to put such a soft engine in it.
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Again, as a big, fat, know it all, Rickman supplied forks to Munch for awhile. 41mm tubes, if I recall correctly. And got some brakes from him for their own stuff. If your front brake has a high single scoop on the right side and Friedl's last name cast into it, the fork set and brake are likely worth as much as the rest of the bike. Nice bikes, lucky man. There's a BSA here in town with an NSU engine in it, maybe your Rickman . . . . . .
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my uncle has a friend with a engine and trans he wants to sell 760 388 4318 his name is tom
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There is a nice article on the Ariel Square Four Mark 2, with performance tips and a list of specialist sources in the June 2010 Classic Bike Guide, an English publication. www.classicbike.co.uk
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Chuck766,
Thanks, I contacted your Uncle.
Wobblywalrus,
Thanks for the heads up on the article.
Tom G.