Landracing Forum
Bonneville Salt Flats Discussion => SCTA Rule Questions => Topic started by: airford1 on March 22, 2009, 04:57:18 PM
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I just got my first rule book and have a question as to what class a 1972 Ford Ranchero with a 460 auto would start in. I have just started a restoration with this Ranchero and I'm at the crossroad of installing a rollcage to make it a drag car or LS car or can we flip flop for both. I'm looking for the hobby not any records.
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460 cubic inches is an "A" engine. I think you could buy a '72 Ranchero with a 460 or a 429. In which case it would be an A/Production. If they didn't come with 385 type motors it would be a Gas coup I guess.
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Yes they did come with a 429.
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Well then, is a 429 a 460? That was the original question.
DW
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429 and 460 are both 385 series Ford motors differing mostly in the stroke. So my best guess is A/Production. Depending on what else you do that may move the car out of production class.
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Thanks for the input. Production class will allow me to build the motor as long as I keep the same number of valves and dont alter the port cofiguration. When it says any transmission does this mean I can put in a trans that was not sold that year, ie, automatic or manual that is from a newer car, what about gear vendors overdrive being added?
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It is my non offical understanding that any transmission is legal in Pro
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I may be confused, but I thought reading the rule book a while back it stated that El Caminos and Rancheros run in the pickup class? Or do I have it wrong and it states they run in their respective car class? I do not have my rule book handy right now. I need to check it later.
But regardless the 460 is A class engine as stated previously, and if avaialble for that Ranchero could fit into production category.
BTW, building to do both land speed and drag racing will have bad results for both. Not saying you could not have fun, but certainly hard to be competitive in both with one car.
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Unless something drastically changed; El Caminos and Rancheros are cars not trucks......
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building to do both land speed and drag racing will have bad results for both. Not saying you could not have fun, but certainly hard to be competitive in both with one car.
I've heard this statement made several times now, and never with an explanation. Can someone please expand? Obviously some changes would have to be built in, but that wouldn't be beyond the capabilities of the folks into either form of racing.
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My first LSR car was an ex-drag race gasser from the 60's and it was no big transition with exception of safety and lowering the car. I ran is as a vintage coupe with a vintage engine
Today it is much different. You don't state what you are looking at but if it's a lakester your converting from a dragster it can be a lot of problems mosty in the tubing diameter. But fitting the safety stuff could cause a problem. We also need a tube axle if I'm not mistaken. There are some currently running but if you ask any of them the expense was to great and they wish they had started from scratch and built a LSR car from the start.
Weight is an issue with drag cars and not with LSR for the most part. There have been some attempts to make altered/fuel coupes out of Pro-Stock type cars but there is a lot expense in the rear. We normally don't use 17" wide tires 34" in diameter. Drag roadster bodies don't fit any of our classes, trust me on this one.
Good luck
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If you build to SCTA spec, it will be legal to 8.50 ET (or maybe even quicker, depending).
If you build to NHRA spec for 8.50, it might not be legal at all for SCTA.
So if you are doing dual-purpose, start with the SCTA rulebook and you'll be fine.
My truck runs both.
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Mcrat nhra tube specs. for a mild steel car is .118 wall thickness --scta tube specs is .120 nominal wall thickness ---.120 ew (electric weld) is nominal wall tubing and you will be lucky if it is .115 wall not legal for nhra willie buchta
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Mcrat nhra tube specs. for a mild steel car is .118 wall thickness --scta tube specs is .120 nominal wall thickness ---.120 ew (electric weld) is nominal wall tubing and you will be lucky if it is .115 wall not legal for nhra willie buchta
Correct. The tubing wall thickness, seat construction, window net, etc, are tighter on SCTA. I had to discard my existing rollbar and seat, then start from scratch to run SCTA.
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read my reply again ---what was wrong with the nhra cage that wouldnt pass at scta--i build both and if built right one should be good at both venues other than the plates on the floor in a unibody car--your truck has a full frame and the cage should weld to the frame at nhra or scta--lf i built a cage for your car or truck it would pass at nhra and scta willie buchta
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read my reply again ---what was wrong with the nhra cage that wouldnt pass at scta--i build both and if built right one should be good at both venues other than the plates on the floor in a unibody car--your truck has a full frame and the cage should weld to the frame at nhra or scta--lf i built a cage for your car or truck it would pass at nhra and scta willie buchta
The minimum NHRA tubing wall thk is not SCTA legal, or at least wasn't last year. Rulebooks are at work, I'll find the chapters Monday.
Yes, you can have one legal for both if you plan ahead, and that means using the SCTA book as the minimum.
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I think what Willie is saying does not pertain to the tubing diameter, but the wall thickness. SCTA allows tubing that has a nominal wall thickness that in some cases could fall under the wall thickness allowed by NHRA for the same diameter tubing.
I'm happy that they do this as I feel they have made up for the slight difference in wall thickness that can occur in a lot of the steel that is available to us home builders by requiring a larger tube diameter. In my case it might be very expensive for me in a remote area to obtain tubing that would for sure meet the wall thickness required by NHRA. Using the larger diameter (heavier in weight) tubing is not the penalty for us as it is for the 1/4 mile guys.
If one is in a "competitive class" at B'ville or the drags I think it is going to be very difficult to build a dual purpose car that can go after records in both. My hat is off to anyone that can pull that off.
c ya,
Sum
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Sorry for the delay. NHRA is .083" for CrMo rollcage construction, and allows some bars like the harness bar to be thinner. SCTA is .095". And if you are tube chassis, the thickness of some of the rollcage structure can be as little as 1.375 dia x .058" for top fuel.
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you are right about the C M roll cage when i get time i will do a comparison between roll cage between nhra and scta and i think you will be suprised willie buchta
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Pg 268 is the one that would apply to most "dual purpose" cars for NHRA.
Yeah, with 1010, you have to have .118" min by NHRA for everything. But, weight=HP=ET. So if you've allocated 250lb/100HP/.2sec for safety equip, you get a bunch more safety with CrMo. The cage in Casper exceeds both NHRA and SCTA reqs, but weighs about the same as a 1010 "minimum req" SCTA rollcage. It's twice as heavy as NHRA min CrMo though.
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thank god for bracket racing... where weight=HP=ET doesn't matter anymore than what color underwear you have on!
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Does every bar attached to the roll cage have to be .095 wall if CM? Or does just the main structure of the roll cage (hoop, two down bars, two rear bars) have to be .095? If I put a cross bar in the back does that have to be .095 or thicker even though it adds to the strength of the 'bare minimum' cage?
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Does every bar attached to the roll cage have to be .095 wall if CM? Or does just the main structure of the roll cage (hoop, two down bars, two rear bars) have to be .095? If I put a cross bar in the back does that have to be .095 or thicker even though it adds to the strength of the 'bare minimum' cage?
I'm not 100%, I'll have to comb the rulebook. I "believe" that supplemental bars that aren't required don't have to be the same, but I'm not sure. I just went .095 everywhere.
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mcrat dont forget to check the "spirit of the rule book" too willie buchta
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I'm brand new to LSR. I'm building a '31 Deluxe Phaeton and want to drive on the Salt once before I kick the bucket!! I have so many questions, after reading the rule book, I'm not sure where to start. I'm in Nor Cal, San Jose area. Tires: rules say speed rated & no square edges. Does a standard speed rated radial tire meet those requirements? Roll bar (cage): I want to drive the "135 MPH" bracket. Do I need the full on double tube 4 point roll cage for that???
This will be a full fendered, stock bodied car that I hope to enter in the "Antique" category. The body sits on a TCI stage III chassis w/406c.i. small block, 200 4R trans built to handle 800hp, Ford 9" w/3:89 gears.
Please, someone point me in the right direction.
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Graybeard,
I'll pass along what I was told when I ask the same type question five months ago.
The Southern California Timing Association (SCTA) runs the meets at El Mirage and Bonneville (in association with BNI).
Get a rule book from the SCTA, read it, read it again and then pick your class based on your vehicle and how much work you want to put into it.
Go to www.scta-bni.org and look around. If you want to run other event put on by other sanctioning bodies go to their websites and look around.
But by all means get the rule book of the sanctioning bodies you're interested in and read them!
Seems to me the more specific questions you ask the more detail answers you'll get.
Good Luck with your bucket list.
Buzz
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Another fact of life in land speed racing is that you must build the vehicle to the standards (safety, especially) required for the current record speed in your class. That is -- if you end up in a class where the record is -- say, 175mph -- then you must have the safety equipment for a 175-mph vehicle whether you plan to run only 135 or not.
If you want to go 135 -- perhaps you'd be wise to at least thoroughly investigate the 130 MPH Club of the USFRA (there's a link to their site on the home page of this site). The safety rules are quite a bit more relaxed for vehicles in that event.
Best --
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If you want to run for the 130 mph club forget the SCTA and look at the USFRA. That is where the 130 Club is. They have rules online at thier web page. Foe an open car I would expect they will want some kind of roll bar.
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Gray's '31 phaeton does not fit in any SCTA class. Closest would be B/STR with a 218(?) record. Have to build a real race car to even run in that class. The 130 Club is the way to go. Forget SCTA. Time Only entry would be held to STR rules, I believe.
Stan