Landracing Forum
Tech Information => Steering - Suspension - Rear End => Topic started by: 41ratrodguy on February 23, 2009, 06:48:35 AM
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Not sure if this has been covered.....can't find it so I am posting. I am soon to start a build on a P38 belly tank lakester. I will be running traditional solid axle up front and a ford 9in in back. I have noticed that most people seem to have no suspension on there cars like this (lakesters and streamliners) at all. I would think that even minimal suspension would be good because the salt isn't perfectly smooth. But, I'm coming from a NHRA back ground and have never made an official run at B'ville. I would appreciate any advice in this subject as I don't want to be the rookie that spins out on there first run. However amusing it may be to the veterans :-D
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41ratrodguy,
Having run cars both with and without suspension, I would definitely build the car with suspension. You don't need much travel but I think you will be happier with some.
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41ratrodguy,
Having run cars both with and without suspension, I would definitely build the car with suspension. You don't need much travel but I think you will be happier with some.
Ditto, perfect salt and a car designed with no suspension (Costello's cars) will probably be faster since you can design less frontal area with no suspension, but then again if the salt is a little rough you might find yourself on the trailer that year after spending money to enter and gearing up for a whole year to run. I want some just so I can run those times and feel the car will hook up better with some in the back.
c ya,
Sum
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Why would you want to run a 9"- :?--this is not a drag strip with slicks.
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Well, my idea was to build a car with suspension that has no more than 2 inches of travel. That is one up and one down. Also, with the capability of easily solid mounted if I want. I would use coil-overs in the rear but, on the front would be a traditional spring as it seems to be the only way to mount a solid axle and retain the ability to "lock" it out. The only problem as I see now it how to go about limiting the travel of a traditional solid axle spring. I could use cables to limit the travel as I have used on my drag cars, but the sudden stop in the travel could do more harm than good. Because in drag racing the cables are used to keep the front wheels from folding under the car when in a wheel stand. Is there anyone who has built a belly tanker using the traditional front suspension that could help shed some light on the subject.
Thank You,
Phil "the salt flat cherry"
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Why would you want to run a 9"- :?--this is not a drag strip with slicks.
Because I come from an extensive drag race back ground and have several of these in my garage. Plus I have thrown over 1000hp to these rear ends. So durability and ease of access would be my main two reasons for using this type of rear end. I'm going at this alone. I have no sponsorships or friends willing to make and investment (at least a financial one) so I need to stick with what I know best.
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......... That is one up and one down. ....................
I re-thought mine and I'm going to have about no up (up as in the car raising on the suspension). If the car starts to lift I want it to have to lift the whole car weight right off the bat and not get momentum in the up movement before reaching the end of rebound. That is my thought and I not sure what others are doing on this, but would like to know.
c ya,
Sum
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If you can you might contact Bob Lindstrom who runs the "Stay In School" roadster. That car was well known for spinning. In '08 Bob removed his suspension as recommended by Jack Costella and ran a flawless speedweek for a new D/BGR record.
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Good question. Use all your drag racing knowledge about hooking up. Solid suspension cars spin their tyres and they add a bunch of weight to compensate for it or a big wing helps.
Not finished company showed up.
jl222 :-D
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41 ratrodguy
I am building a streamliner for this year and have suspension on it. My car has about the same frontal area as the Costellos cars, small front nose, so it can be done. Will it work? don't know but will find out soon. I designed my car with suspension mainly because I will be running at the Maxton track and feel I will need it there. I am new to land speed racing so I this may not to be the way to go. I'll let you know how it turns out.
Jerry
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41 ratrodguy,
There really isn't much wrong with using a 9" at Bonneville because they get pretty efficient as the ratio gets higher, i.e. like 2.43 or less that you need for Bonneville. They are much less efficient when going with the drag race ratios. When the pinion starts getting down to 9 or 11 there is lots of sliding motion between the pinion and ring gear teeth so you get more friction. If you've got 9 inchers and you are confident in your experience with them I don't see a good reason to change. I'll bet if you went around and counted at Bonneville there are more 9 inch Fords than anything else.
Rex
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And I will bet that most of them are run for the same reason---there and easy---
Will you have so much power that you can throw 4+% away?
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Sparky,
What type of rear end do you run in your lakester?
Thanks,
Tom G.
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Tires front and rear.
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Sparky,
Sorry, I did not mean sprung or unsprung. I wanted to know the make of the rear end, ford, chevy, etc.
Thanks,
Tom G.
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GM 7.5
Torsen carrier
2.14
10w-30 syn motor oil
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Sparky,
Big 'way to go" using 10 w 30 oil in your rear end. Standard 80-140 wt is not needed for Bonneville and really is a hp eater.
Rex
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Sparky,
Big 'way to go" using 10 w 30 oil in your rear end. Standard 80-140 wt is not needed for Bonneville and really is a hp eater.
Rex
I did not know this. Do you have any problems with the thinner viscosity getting past the Axel seals?
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Sparky,
Big 'way to go" using 10 w 30 oil in your rear end. Standard 80-140 wt is not needed for Bonneville and really is a hp eater.
Rex
Is this ok in an early Ford banjo (3 miles max :-D)
Mike
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We run TDH with a little ER. Never had a problem except when we forgot to put any in. Lasted 4 runs (300+ mph) before taking all the teeth off the pinion.
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TDH?
ER?
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Stan,
You have a PM.
Tom G.
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Transmission, differential, hydraulic oil (aka tractor hydraulic oil). Very light, I think about 5W. ER is Energy Release. It is an oil additive that really works in a myiad of applications. I think there is a thread about it somewhere.
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ThunderSalt---so far so good---who would care anyway
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GM 7.5
Torsen carrier
2.14
10w-30 syn motor oil
sparky,
does the same reasoning apply to 4 speed manual trans. ( w/ straight cut gears ) ?
what about engine oil ?
the friction reduction makes a lot of sense. but, what are possible drawbacks ?
many thanks,
franey
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I have no knowledge of the Tranny question---therefore no comment.
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Not sure about other transmissions, but Toyota used a modified ATF iin the Getrag 6-speed (twin-turbo Supra) and way before that we used Dexron in Corolla 5-speed manual trans (around 1984-85). That was the Front Wheel Drive model, by the way. The trans seemed to hold up just fine.
We used to run ATF in rear wheel drive manual trans, for high altitude (super cold) winter operation. It was the only way to get out of 1st and into 2nd when you had to leave the driveway and head uphill! If you couldn't make the shift (with gear oil), you couldn't get back into 1st without stopping, and once stopped on the snow....you couldn't get going again!
I run 1/2 and 1/2 in my street roadster and it's been fine for 2 years.... and it shifts great!
Regards, JimL
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When I found out S-10 pick-up standard transmissions used ATF I changed to it in all my 4-speeds and never looked back. In my Tex T101 I do mix in a little 75W gear lube. Good Luck
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thanks.
franey