Landracing Forum
Misc Forums => LSR General Chat => Topic started by: dwarner on February 08, 2009, 02:33:28 PM
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OK,
New topic. I locked the Russ Wicks thread because it strayed too far off.
This can be a place to argue the merits of both types of motorsports. I had to do this because I can't stay away.
I didn't recieve a response to my comments about last night's race. Here is where we can dissect the diffs
DW
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Well, they do have better lights for night-time racing :mrgreen:
Mike
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And the fans get to set very close to the track.---------willie buchta
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In LSR I can build and race a machine by myself (with the help of the list) and I can be a volunteer. :-D
Geo
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And in LSR I can get a hug from my racers without having to fork out bunches of bucks!! Life is Grand!!
Lynda
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I've been involved in most forms of two and four wheeled motorsports as a builder, mechanic, tuner or competitor and sometimes as an owner (oops!, almost forgot power boats and snowmobiles). I've found that as long as you're interested in fitting in with the people involved they'll generally be more than willing to go out of their way to help you. As you become more competitive, the help seems to drift away and the respect increases.
If there is some sort of untoward happening, it seems in all forms of competition other competitors will come together to assist someone with some sort of crisis or emergency.
Generally it seems that most serious competitors have respect for and an interest in other forms of motorsports than the ones in which they are involved. A few more insular people tend to knock other forms of competition and feel it would take little effort to dominate if they chose to enter. I've found from personal experience that most competition is much harder than it appears once you get involved.
I think fans and spectators are more prone to knocking the forms of the sport that they don't follow. If they'd dig a little deeper I think there's more to most than they realize and in most cases it's the people and not the instruments of competition that make any form of motorsports what it is.
End of rant!
Pete
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Well stated Peter Jack. I too come from a long list of racing, I have worked with some the best Indy cars, IMSA GTP, NHRA drag racing, Trans AM, USAC, and NAS-CAR teams in the country and now I am into landspeed racing. I love them all and have meet some great people in all forms of motor sports. That is the best part on racing, the people you meet and sharing ideas. I think nas-car has some great people and are very qualified to race on the salt, but they will go through the same pains and struggles everyone does. If anyone had it all figured out I think we would know about it by now, but thats part of the fun, working late nights with your buddies trying to get your car to go faster. If we all had it figured out, there would be no reason to even do it. I want to see new cars and ideas come into LSR. I love to see how others approach a problem and how they solve it that's different than I would. I am looking forward to my first year in LSR and hope to meet some of the nice people that have helped me with my build. Out of all the racing I have been involved in I think the LSR people are without a doubt the most friendly and the first to give you a helping hand when you need it.
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I think when we are talking about technology we only have to look at Burklands, Nish, and Vesco among many others to see some pretty advanced thinking. I'm not sure about flat tappet cam four barrel 350s being the newest stuff down the pike. If thowing money at it is your goal (works for the Nash cars) look what Ron Main and Geo. Poteet have done. Truly amazing stuff. I have no question that Nash Car guys do equally amazing work with what they are limited to. In terms of both speed and durability. But the guys that ran at the 24 hour race did good too with actual up to date parts had a closer finish that the Crash-O-Rama I watched yesterday and with more cars on the track managed to finish most of them. There is a place for everthing. The place for bragging is after you do it. Or maybe not if you don't really think that time will ever come.
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BA57 & pap,
You mentioned respect on the other thread. Respect- earned, not demanded.
How about cheating in NAS.CAR? There is a book written on the subject:
"Cheating: An Inside Look at the Bad Things Good NASCAR Winston Cup Racers Do in Pursuit of Speed by Tom Jensen (Hardcover - Sep 27, 2002)"
Care to comment?
DW
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How about cheating? There is a book written on the subject:
"Cheating: An Inside Look at the Bad Things Good Winston Cup Racers Do in Pursuit of Speed by Tom Jensen (Hardcover - Sep 27, 2002)"
DW
No wonder "WE" never get away with anything. He (DW) studies the subject...........
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Cheating in Nascar ? ... How about Smokey Yunick's 7/8 sized Chevelle ... Nascar is all about the money and that is what creates the cheating ... Joe
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Working for a couple nas-car teams I saw the cheating first hand. Not only the teams but some of the nascar inspectors turning there heads so a illegal part could pass tech. In return they would get used engine parts or complete engines from the teams so they could race there Saturday night late model cars. Any team that say they don't cheat is full of it. Your right, its all about the money. The media portrays the teams as a family sport, if people only new how much cut throat and back stabbing goes on they would be surprised. Not only from team to team but also within the teams. Thats why I got out.
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I don't know why everyone is so down on NECKCAR. I love watching NECKCAR along with Drag racing, Indy cars, Sprint Cars, Supercross, Road racing, baja racing, Heck you get 10 drunk guys racing scooters in a parking lot I'll probably watch. Racing is awesome in any form, granted I would rather watch LSR just because I'm most familiar with it, but watching 43 cup cars swapping paint at Martinsville is pretty cool. Put a motor in, run it in a straight line, in a circle, up hills, across water, over a frozen lake, in a figure 8; it don't mater my dumb arse will probably watch it.
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Stock Car/LSR
DW it was was a very low down move locking the Wicks Thread, it shows that LSR is threatend by Stock Car technology. I just got info from Doug Herbert and seen the new design of the Herbert/ Evernham streamliner. There technology is way far advanced than the LSR of today "Fact". I will say in a very strong positive manner 500mph is in Doug Herbert's hands I am glad they will show you and all els the light of day. It just a matter of time now it is amazing the design Evernham/ Herbert number 1 in LSR
Congrats Doug Herbert NHRA/ Stock Car technology nice design and engineering sure to take the Wheel Driven record to a new area in technology
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Stock Car/LSR
DW it was was a very low down move locking the Wicks Thread, it shows that LSR is threatend by Stock Car technology. I just got info from Doug Herbert and seen the new design of the Herbert/ Evernham streamliner. There technology is way far advanced than the LSR of today "Fact". I will say in a very strong positive manner 500mph is in Doug Herbert's hands I am glad they will show you and all els the light of day. It just a matter of time now it is amazing the design Evernham/ Herbert number 1 in LSR
Congrats Doug Herbert NHRA/ Stock Car technology
Would you mind sharing with the rest of us what is so different about the technology they are using? Have they somehow discovered a way to cheat the laws of physics?
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57Tbird
What info do you have on Dougs car. Have you seen it. I live about five miles from his shop and was over there about two month ago. Not much completed on the car. I'm sure they have more done by now. Just wandering, your friend PAP, is his name Wayne or Larry.
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57Tbird
What info do you have on Dougs car. Have you seen it. I live about five miles from his shop and was over there about two month ago. Not much completed on the car. I'm sure they have more done by now. Just wandering, your friend PAP, is his name Wayne or Larry.
Jerry
I seen the design today Ray has done a great job in the LSR design its way advanced in aero design technology. Talk to Ray or go by the shop in my opinion there advanced like Richard Noble in ALSR the Stock Car technology and engineering is a good blend with an NHRA drag racer. Dougs dad is involved with this design as well great team great driver to see it through to a new land speed record
Evernham is a master in Stock Car and LSR :cheers:
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Tbird
Where did you see the designs. Do you know Ray and Doug. If you have any photos of the new car how about posting them for all to see. You did not answer me about PAP. What is his first name. I think I worked with him at Yates racing.
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He hasn't answered my question about this so-called advanced technology either.
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There was an interview with Herbert on ESPN coverage of Pomona, Showed an artist rendering of the car. Looked alot like the JCB Diesel.
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Tbird
Where did you see the designs. Do you know Ray and Doug. If you have any photos of the new car how about posting them for all to see. You did not answer me about PAP. What is his first name. I think I worked with him at Yates racing.
Jerry
I have to go off line about this due to the forum stuff that went on in the other Wicks deal. For more info please e-mail me at j.demmitt@at.net
(No more post about Herbert/ Evernham will be posted by me) on this thread
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DW--- The Bird has flown the coop!
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There was an interview with Herbert on ESPN coverage of Pomona, Showed an artist rendering of the car. Looked alot like the JCB Diesel.
I think the JCB diesel max streamliner is one of the more advanced streamliners out there. There are many others, and I think that it will be difficult to add "NEW" technology to any of these cars. JMO
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Maybe Evernham (?) added some truck arms out back.
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Jack:
:-D :-D :cheers: :cheers:
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Probably help it turn left easier, get it off the long course so Kennedy doesn't get pizzed.
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BA57
"low down move?" I thought the move Dan made was a brilliant tribute to one of my early hero's, Curtis Turner. who is reported to have said [or words to the same effect] many times "there's a brand new party just beginning".
PAP
"Million dollar event?" From the last 40 laps I caught you pre pegged it spot on - genuine full moon million dollar damage demo derby.
Everybody
I've followed about anything motorsports related that made noise since the mid '50's and have come to the conclusion that the min somebody puts up a dollar to win there are plenty in line ready to spend five to do it. Big part of what keeps LSR on top of my preferred list [yes I'll probably still catch some of the 500 next weekend if it comes handy but I'd really rather be doing something]. Salt bears are a great equalizer, B'ville can be very humbling. I think Speedweek is one of the largest gatherings of the most varied and best brains of the gearhead world on the planet in one spot at one time every year, timeslips are the final tally.
Just some of my views for the eve.,
Ed Purinton
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Bville.......... When I first started to build a streamliner I looked at the JCB liner and it really impressed me. I have seen lots of photos of the JCB car and I have seen the Herbert car in person, not just photos. There is as much difference in the two as a F1 car and a fork lift. The JCB liner as you have said is one of the most advanced cars running. I'm not knocking Herberts cars and i am not saying it will not set the record, only it is no where close to the JCB car.
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DW it was was a very low down move locking the Wicks Thread, it shows that LSR is threatend by Stock Car technology.
If we're on the topic of comparing the technologies of the two forms of racing, then NAS.CAR is hamstrung by a set of anachronistic rules. I'd venture to say that there is a lot more innovation in the ranks of the XF LSR engine class then the rules would permit in a NAS.CAR engine.
But technology isn't all about engines, and I'll give the NAS.CAR guys some credit in that they've managed to establish parity between four basic designs in order to keep sponsors interested. That's where the technology nod goes to the NAS.CAR guys.
So when did NASCAR become a four-letter word?
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Well guys, I think I know why the bird flew the coop. TBird and Pap started all the talk about the nascar invasion. Pap said he worked for the #28 car at Yates racing in the engine dept. He also said to me in a PM that he was the one that punch Ricky Rudd in the nose at the track several years back. He also told me his real name, unknowing to him that I worked in the same dept as that guy at Yates and there names don't match. I tried to ask him direct questions about him and Pap and could not get a answer. There were several things he said that threw a red flag. My guess is Tbird and Pap are just a couple trouble makers and should be band from the forums. I hate it when someone uses the identity of a friend of mine just to jack everyone up. If I am wrong about this I apologise to all.
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Give him time Jerry, maybe he is on the road again.... :roll:
:cheers:
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Well guys, I think I know why the bird flew the coop. TBird and Pap started all the talk about the frammistan invasion. Pap said he worked for the #28 car at Yates racing in the engine dept. He also said to me in a PM that he was the one that punch Ricky Rudd in the nose at the track several years back. He also told me his real name, unknowing to him that I worked in the same dept as that guy at Yates and there names don't match. I tried to ask him direct questions about him and Pap and could not get a answer. There were several things he said that threw a red flag. My guess is Tbird and Pap are just a couple trouble makers and should be band from the forums. I hate it when someone uses the identity of a friend of mine just to jack everyone up. If I am wrong about this I apologise to all.
It is interesting to see the claims some people will make on a public forum. Don't they realize that any one in the world with internet access can see this and that they may be called on their (not there) comments? With the way both have dodged questions since they have been here, I to have suspected their (not there) motives. But don't ban them, I think DW is having fun with them.
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TSalt, I thought we all were having fun... not just DW. Did I mention I helped re-invent the B-52.... :cheers:
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The plane, the band, or the drink? :-D :-D :cheers:
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Thundersalt,
With it being Stainless, it would HAVE to be the drink!! :cheers: :evil:
Lynda
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I saw the design today Ray has done a great job in the LSR design it's way advanced in aero design technology. Talk to Ray or go by the shop in my opinion they are advanced like Richard Noble in ALSR the Stock Car technology and engineering is a good blend with an NHRA drag racer. Doug's dad is involved with this design as well great team great driver to see it through to a new land speed record.
you saw it on tv! you don't have an inside channel or connection. you didn't even make it to pomona.
Evernham is a master in Stock Car and LSR
ba57 is a masturbator in lsr!
drag racing too! why would you build a car for which there is no category?
that blown alky t-bird is about as practical as running a stock car at bonneville.
guess you can claim anything if you have no competition.
oh wait!
i forgot: craig breedlove has announced you as the heir to the alsr title.
surely he wouldn't lie about that just to get a moron of of his back! :roll:
you really must be the expert!
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Well guys, I think I know why the bird flew the coop. TBird and Pap started all the talk about the frammistan invasion. Pap said he worked for the #28 car at Yates racing in the engine dept. He also said to me in a PM that he was the one that punch Ricky Rudd in the nose at the track several years back. He also told me his real name, unknowing to him that I worked in the same dept as that guy at Yates and there names don't match. I tried to ask him direct questions about him and Pap and could not get a answer. There were several things he said that threw a red flag. My guess is Tbird and Pap are just a couple trouble makers and should be band from the forums. I hate it when someone uses the identity of a friend of mine just to jack everyone up. If I am wrong about this I apologise to all.
Thanks for the heads-up Jerry, it's frustrating to suspect that someone is a jackass, but strangely rewarding when it's confirmed. -Dean
:cheers:
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I don't know anything about N^SCAR technology other than what I've read. But building high output V8 pushrod engines that lasts 500 miles certainly has relevance to LSR. Although it ain't doing too much for anyone with less than 4 tires, or anyone running an engine made in this century. :-D
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This is a personal message I sent to BA57 explaining the reason I closed the Russ Wicks thread:
Jim,
I hope that you relaize that the thread was far off topic, that is why I closed it and started a new thread more closely associated with the flow.
I closed the thread because I don't want to take anything away from Russ. He used his talents to get the tools he needed to accomplished his goal. His long term intentions are what everything he does are pointed to.
My intent was not to drive anyone away from the forums. I want to keep the threads on topic and of interest to everyone.
I also received a PM from pap today. I wrote him a couple of the reasons I thought they became the bad guys and invited him and BA57 to continue their posts.
DW
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Re: LRS vrs. NAS.CAR technology
How come you guys are talking about LSR when the topic was CLEARLY LRS? :cheers:
Oh, and is vrs. the same as versus or vs. or v.? (vs. and v. are acceptable for versus.) :cheers:
And I think it's NASCAR not NAS.CAR. :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:
Somebody mentioned that the NASCAR rules were archaic. NASCAR rules have always been about leveling the playing field to get better racing. Cheating has gotten more publicity mostly because NASCAR is the big dog in racing. There is cheating in all forms of racing, yes, including LSR.
Comparing it to LSR? Why? The rules in NASCAR didn't evolve around the fastest possible platform, but the one that would give the best racing.
F1 is technology wonder land. Where else do you see different body work designed just for that particular race track. The F1 exhaust system is designed to last one race and get replaced. They have three guy that do nothing but exhaust systems. But racing? Not in F1 there are more passes made in the pits then there are on the track.
The Honda F1 team took a whack at Bonneville and had all sorts of problems. But if anybody put an F1 budget to LSR than anything would be possible.
Saying that the the Herbert team is going to go 500 mph is as much fantasy as saying 5,000 mph. Aerodynamics can't be that much better than the Poteet/Main car, and probably not as good. Horsepower has never been a problem, getting it to the ground has been. The coefficient of friction isn't going to change no matter what they do. The Poteet/Main car I'm pretty sure has a very advanced traction control, and the Herbert car better have one too.
Unless you are going to bolt a thrust motor to it you still have to accelerate through the tires. 500 mph takes an increasingly longer chuck of territory that just isn't available. No matter how much money, science, technology and voodoo you pour into the project you still can't go out and get testing time, can you?
How long did it take the Burkland team? It takes some kind of dedication to stick around year after year battling demons to get over night success. I wonder how many total passes the Burkland team has made over the last 12 years. It took Gene 11 years before the first pass, 4 years to break 400. And don't forget the years were there were no runs because of bad salt or rebuilding.
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Re: LRS vrs. NAS.CAR technology
How come you guys are talking about LSR when the topic was CLEARLY LRS? :cheers:
Oh, and is vrs. the same as versus or vs. or v.? (vs. and v. are acceptable for versus.) :cheers:
And I think it's NASCAR not NAS.CAR. :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:
Hey, Dean -
It seems that when I enter the acronym for the National Association of Stock Car Auto Racing, the word frammistan comes up. Perhaps you have a workaround, or something has changed -
. . . or are you cheating? :-D
That was me, beefing about stock cars, and it really wouldn't be such a bee in my bonnet if it weren't for the fact that they still call them "Stock Cars".
Here's my point - if you look back at the Hollman-Moody Fords, the Petty Plymouths, and the Penske Matadors, each had a whole lot more in common with the cars that they started out as than anything circling Daytona this week. The drivetrain layout was the same, the engine options included unmodified versions of what was on the track, and a person could buy a V-8 Matador and pretend they were Mark Donahue. Now I'm not so foolish as to say they were "Stock", but they were sure a lot closer the the ideal of a Stock Car than what we see today.
That was always the magic of Stock Car racing for me, along with Trans-Am in the early '70's. As someone interested in production based autoracing, I think NASCAR has missed the boat by not moving forward with development of current technologies - OHC V-6's and fuel injection comes to mind.
I guess I'm just a romantic, but using fifty year old engine designs, regardless of how refined they have become, in cars that weren't on the drawing boards when the last small block Ford was cast, and then calling them "Stock Cars", tells me that the folks at the National Association of Stock Car Auto Racing are Luddites and charlatans.
But given the popularity of the sport, I know I stand in the minority on this issue.
Cheers! :cheers:
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LRS was entered in my haste and passion
NAS.CAR was to get around the word filter
vrs? Blame the LAUSD
DW