Landracing Forum
Tech Information => Technical Discussion => Topic started by: bsmlakester on January 20, 2009, 12:56:55 PM
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Can you only use a inline OHV motor in the vintage XO class? Or can you use V-8's that were pre-59? thank you.
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From the 2009 rulebook:
"XO class consists of overhead valve (OHV) and flathead inline and flathead V8 (except Ford & Mercury) and V-12 engines, 1959 or earlier design, up to 325 cid. Examples include Chevrolet, GMC, Hudson, Packard, Buick, Lincoln and Cadillac. Foreign engines are NOT included."
Bold print mine,
DW
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bsm, Dans words may confuse you eventho they are right out of the book. 49 OHV Cad, Buick, Packard OHV V-8, 55 Chevrolet V-8, Chrysler . 54 Ford, etc are not allowed in vintage. It is not normally a V-8 class but there are some that fit like the Cadillac flathead
A Chev 6 of 1959 is the same design as a 1937. a 58 GMC 6 is the same design as a 1940 GMC 6. Same for the Hudsons or 1960 Plymouth 6 which is a flathead of the same design of the 40's...This may help.............JD
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bsm --
You certainly aren't the first one to be confused. Guys have built complete cars assuming that the early OHV V-8s are included.
Stan
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I don't see where the word flathead would cause any confusion. How should the sentence be rewritten?
DW
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Perhaps: "XO class consists of INLINE overhead valve (OHV) and flathead..."?
Mike
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Thats good Mike. Sometimes you read the words so many times you see what isn't there.
Thanks,
DW
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A simple comma in the right place has the right effect.
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Thats good Mike. Sometimes you read the words so many times you see what isn't there.
Thanks,
DW
Your welcome, sir! :-D
Perhaps even better: "XO class consists of overhead valve (OHV) and flathead INLINE engines, and flathead V8..."
Mike
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We could always go back to when I started. Bring what you think is legal and they will tell you whether is is or not. :evil:
My suggestion will always be see what is running and setting records and then make your decision. You will still find a pretty good variety in the manufacturers. It's all with the $$$$$$. I love the all Jimmys, Stovebolts, Hudsons, Buick, etc:
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Hey! don't wake up SSS. The comma police have been silent for some time. Unfortunatley I think they are tied in with the guldurn curse word folks................... :evil:
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Bob, are you suggesting I should reset the curse-word monitor? Unh, what'll I do this time -- Colors? Tire brands? Give me some guidance here -- or I'll stick with the cars. No comma comments, though -- I've let that job go on a well-deserved vacation.
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thanks a ton, for saving me so grief. See you on the salt.
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Legal meanings, as found in 10,000 court decisions:
"XO class consists of overhead valve (OHV) and flathead inline and flathead V8 (except Ford & Mercury) and V-12 engines, 1959 or earlier design, up to 325 cid"
Permits Buick nailhead, Chrysler hemi, poly, B/RB, Cadillac, Ford Y & MEL, Oldsmobile Rocket, Pontiac, Packard, Studebaker OHV V8.
"XO class consists of overhead valve (OHV) and flathead inline, and flathead V8 (except Ford & Mercury) and V-12 engines, 1959 or earlier design, up to 325 cid"
Does not.
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Permits Buick nailhead, Chrysler hemi, poly, B/RB, Cadillac, Ford Y & MEL, Oldsmobile Rocket, Pontiac, Packard, Studebaker OHV V8.
How would this omit Chevy small blocks and "W" motors and allow Ford Y and MEL and FEs came out in '58 but he rule specifically excludes Fords and Mercs. If it really did allow any OHV V8 motors, which it doesn't. I never had any difficulty reading this rule and ran in the class for some time.
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I have had no difficulty writting and enforcing the intent of the rule.
I will be glad to give up this rulebook gig. You up to it panic? You have had a lot of negative comments re: SCTA-BNI in the past.
DW
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Have a nice day.
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bfd
and I don't mean B/Fuel Dragster.
Us volunteers are worth every penny we're paid. And if you could help out in your "expertise" -- why not join in support instead of tearing it down. Us geezers aren't going to be here forever doing the jobs nobody else wants so the rest of you can race.
Please step up -- or step back.
Stan
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Well, just to let you know I have re-written the sentence for 2010. Too late for 2009. Thank you for your prompt response to a statement that has served for years and could have been corrected at any time.
Do you still practice? If not how about some help? Hourly billing rate will be $0 but someone with a passion for the sport will be glad to support the hundreds who do race. Or, time trial as some would say.
I do have some learned helpers who can correct my poor command of English and use thereof.
DW
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Ah shoot Dan. Your dang good at wat you right...
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The comma cop comes out for a few words...
A couple of years ago Dan asked if I'd help proofread the rule book. I did -- and found lots of commas that shouldn't have been there, among other things. But I wasn't able to go through and change things where the context didn't help me. I would have (anybody trying the task) would have had to have help from someone that knows the intent of each statement, each rule. Then I could have tried to word that intent in clear(er) language. But that is an undertaking of gargantuan proportions and would take literally hundreds of hours of close collaboration. In the meantime -- the book does evolve constantly, becoming clearer and easier to understand -- one phrase, one word, one rule at a time.
Maybe I should donate a zillion bucks to the SCTA so that the rulebook committee" could all take a year off, with generous compensation, and carefully go through and find every durned hiccup and make it clear. That's one way that might work -- but I betcha there'd still be some that can't understand - or don't try to understand -- a rule, here and there, now and then.
C. Cop now goes back to his dessert, and this thread can go back to Vintage OHV motors.
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bfd?
Really?
Does that pass for a crushing rebuttal in your schoolyard?
I got so very, very tired of being told "speak when you're spoken to" here, because I don't have one of those cute hats - as if that were the only feat worthy of mention.
My point (for those not merely waiting to heap more abuse) was that I can do things that you can't, and vice versa. Some of them are things that might help you.
And I got exactly the response I expected. Should have known better.
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This is such a shame.
What could be very interesting and productive discussion has degenerated into another la-la land of bien pensant "positive thinking", where the highest possible goal is that everyone wins and no feelings are hurt.
Wait - are ALL of you from California...?
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Guys, For what it's worth: I grew up reading [and interpreting] the NHRA rulebook. It simply states in the beginning: This rulebook is written in a positive manner; "If it doesn't say you can, You can't". Simple!!
Being a Newbie this year and next, I really appreciate a place to run, and the people who make it possible. The cost is nothing like it is in other venues and only limited by your own desires. Credit where credit is due. Doug :cheers:
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Now there's an intellegent response. Should have used the qoute button. Buick you got in before I could.
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This is such a shame.
What could be very interesting and productive discussion has degenerated into another la-la land of bien pensant "positive thinking", where the highest possible goal is that everyone wins and no feelings are hurt.
Wait - are ALL of you from California...?
So 'splane to us the interesting & productive parts you shared with us again?
aren't you the one who pulls his posts if you feel someone questions your wisdom?
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aren't you the one who pulls his posts if you feel someone questions your wisdom?
Dat be him.... He has done it on another forum also. But then again I am from Kalifornia, and I cant spel :-P
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Not all of us are from CA--BUT whether we are or whether we aren't----we have NO trouble recognizing when somone is full of themselves as Harry Reid and full of Pelosi!
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LMAO Sparky. :-D :-D
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I love my hat.
It wasn't given to me -- I earned it.
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the one who pulls his posts if you feel someone questions your wisdom
Let me explain the difference: they are removed when it becomes painfully apparent that those holding other opinions:
1. are wrong (not "chocolate vs. vanilla" wrong, but "2 + 2 = 5" wrong)
2. have already stopped listening
3. because the subject is beyond their competence or experience
4. and turned to everyone's favorite back-up tool when they run out of facts, logic, history and manners: rudeness and personal animus
For examples, see above.
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Who is Panic, I ask him sometime back what his racing background was, if he had a real name etc. He never answered so it sounds like he doesn't want us to know. :roll:
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the one who pulls his posts if you feel someone questions your wisdom
Let me explain the difference: they are removed when it becomes painfully apparent that those holding other opinions:
1. are wrong (not "chocolate vs. vanilla" wrong, but "2 + 2 = 5" wrong)
2. have already stopped listening
3. because the subject is beyond their competence or experience
4. and turned to everyone's favorite back-up tool when they run out of facts, logic, history and manners: rudeness and personal animus
For examples, see above.
Panic, as most here will tell you I am not a fan of the scta since I believe most of the rule changes seem to serve someone running in the dirt and often depend on who is currently in power.... :| I am a 30 year BNI member and Bonneville racer so I pay my dues and since I don't get to make the rules I live with them. I don't pull my posts, when I write something down, if I screw up, I apologize, if folks don't like what I have to say they will put me on ignore. And yes I do appreciate the volunteers that make it possible to race, and yes they are amateurs, we all are. Enough about me...
If you don't stand behind what you write and pull it when someone questions the facts, logic, history and manners then you shouldn't bother to put it out. Personally when I am looking through old posts or multi-page threads to reacquaint myself with the background and I see a post that is either
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or have a nice day
or deleted
I think the poster obviously pulled his post because he didn't believe in what he posted and knew it would not stand the test of time.
This is a forum, it is people stating opinions, giving advice and trying to help.... It is also the internet and everything you see in print is not necessarily 100% accurate or true. When questioning competence, stand up and walk away from your computer and look in the mirror first. It has been my experience that not everyone stops listening at the same time, unless one of the folks in the discussion stops discussing.
Remember if you act like a jerk, people will think you are a jerk.... :|
I modified my post because I need to add this... yep, some people think I'm a jerk... :-D
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Hey, Panic -
I, for one, am a fan of your posts, and I was disappointed when you retracted your comments on the Buick straight-eight build diary - I think your insight on it was good.
Have the courage of your convictions, and don't take the online rough-housing so personally. :cheers:
Chris
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Have the courage of your convictions, and don't take the online rough-housing so personally. :cheers:Chris
There is no need for some of the abuse. This is a technical forum and often what starts out as very good pro and con technical feedback breaks down into myoptic blathering. I am not against such rants if they are located in the correct forum like Non-LSR or some of the other "social" catagories. That way I can avoid that crap. Even this response is thread hijacking since I am not contributing to the subject. Sorry, I couldn't help myself :-P