Landracing Forum
Misc Forums => LSR General Chat => Topic started by: John Noonan on January 16, 2009, 02:31:01 PM
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Like I said..just get the money.. :cheers:
The funniest thing I remember from several years back was a members signature line that said something along the lines of
180+++ Maxton record holder in a 3000cc blown or nitrous class (I do not recall) and I am sure he was proud of his phenomenal "record" he set.
Running at an SCTA and running for points is the same as running for points at an ECTA meet other than at SCTA meets you cannot run up in class..
We can agree to disagree..
The cool thing is that an event where you are racing for points is it still gives another racer the chance to enter your class and get a record as well before they are perhaps too high for the novice or one time a season racer.
I hope to see some great speeds come from Jason, Bill, Trilly, Jody, Guy etc..again my personal feeling is not to allow running up in classes and to verify actual vehicle displacement as we are aware of racers that have set records at Maxton with nitrous and with big bore engines that are larger than the entered class allows. This happened at Bonneville one time with a "Stock Busa" and now the SCTA inspectors do a better job of making sure that the class limits are not being "pushed"
I made mention of the 50cc bike running in an "Unlimited" class, not running up one class say 75cc?..I can read and write, I don't need help so please do not misconstrue my words as I have written them.
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I'm not sure I understand your hypocritical stance on this John. After all, didn't you enter the ECTA 200 mph club while "running up in class"? If you're so against this practice then why would you reap the benefits of it?
(http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p224/DahMurf/Smileys/smooches.gif)
And if someone did in fact bring a class legal 3000cc bike and only ran 188 but that was a record then why shouldn't they be proud of it? They still would have ran faster then anyone else that tried. Maybe they're on their way to faster speeds does that mean they can't be proud of how far they got even if there is more to come? And if it was a 1650 or 2000 cc couldn't they be equally proud? If they built the bike from the ground up (yeah I know i'm sure it was a stock busa) I'd say anyone has a right to be proud of that speed. I just really don't understand why people spend so much time judging other people. If it's your accomplishment you have the right to be proud. If you played by the rules and didn't cheat then you deserve to be proud of anything you successfully do.
Debbie (http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p224/DahMurf/Smileys/batting_eyelashes.gif)
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I'm not sure I understand your hypocritical stance on this John. After all, didn't you enter the ECTA 200 mph club while "running up in class"? If you're so against this practice then why would you reap the benefits of it?
And if someone did in fact bring a class legal 3000cc bike and only ran 188 but that was a record then why shouldn't they be proud of it? They still would have ran faster then anyone else that tried. Maybe they're on their way to faster speeds does that mean they can't be proud of how far they got even if there is more to come? And if it was a 1650 or 2000 cc couldn't they be equally proud? If they built the bike from the ground up (yeah I know i'm sure it was a stock busa) I'd say anyone has a right to be proud of that speed. I just really don't understand why people spend so much time judging other people. If it's your accomplishment you have the right to be proud. If you played by the rules and didn't cheat then you deserve to be proud of anything you successfully do.
Debbie
Blah Blah Blah...
I am done..you can continue to twist this in to an anti Noonan rant however call it what you will I could care less, I would love to see engines opened up/inspected/verified..a record book for the racers to look at after a trying season of racing for a record to be proud of and mention to the racers that were not so lucky to get a record..also mention to the volunteers that make it happen.
I would like to hope this event will continue from here on out and not end up like Muroc..
I want it to be a proper event with timing and safety to all.
I entered the 200 ECTA club by running on a 211mph record and was fortunate to get it..stop twisting words..I made mention of the 50cc bike and running Unlimited..
Deb,
I have an honest question for you:
Would you be as proud setting a record on a 50cc vintage bike at 37mph in a 3001cc fuel class or setting a record over 200mph with Nitrous on your bike in the same engine class your bike actually has? Real question..just looking for your honest simple (non long winded) answer. Yes or no..?
And again look at my first response:
I started to say something and then realized about the Org being new and stated to just get the Money..I see you may have missed that? (~~~~insert some childish icon here please)
J
Your turn.. : )
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hmmm that's all very bizarre. I do recall the retiring of the unlimited classes but at the time of retirement the APS/UF record was at 249.307 set by Lee on Rich's bike during the September 2004 meet. That was likely a mistake made in impound ( :roll: ) where the class wasn't in the book so they assumed it was an open class rather then the reality that if the class isn't in the book marked as OPEN then the class its self doesn't exist. The database has it right as seen in the runlog on the ECTA results page.
Ironically it appears that Scott did you a favor by pointing that out. Had you not run again you easily could have gone home to find out that you didn't in fact have a record or possibly even entry to the 200 mph club. BTW, classification is still a function of impound. Any mention of it in tech is usually as a courtesy or even a warning. As in, you can run this class but if you try to take the record I will personally contest it since you and I both know you are not legal! ;)
And now leading this back into the forum in which we are posting... this is one of the complications of running a meet. If there is trouble getting the proper volunteers there is much difficulty in running an adequate impound. Those that do it for the ECTA do a darn good job & we thank them for it but that being said, nobody is perfect including our volunteers. Many of us at the ECTA would love to have the world class impound that the SCTA has but we simply don't have the manpower.
I am eager to see how the LTA will be set up. With any luck the ECTA's hardships and downfalls have been conveyed to them so that they may strive to do it better then us! ;)
Regardless of how they do it, I am very much looking forward to seeing what this new venue and a 1.5 mile track will bring to us all! :cheers:
Debbie
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I think the message is clear - organisers must make robust rules and then have the people and weight to impose them fairly. Whatever the distance you get to run, it is good to see new events planned in the USA. Gives me excuses to vistt more of the Country at some time.
Malcolm
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As I recall Slim won the Super Bike Shoot out prize for 600cc ??? bikes on a whiz bang pit bike at 37 mph ... wasnt a record but it was definately legal for the CC of the class and he took home the money ... He may do it again at Loring.
Joe
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My motor is 1397cc and I have several /F (nitrous only) records at Maxton in larger motor classes that I was allowed to run up in and I'm proud of them all. I've never run below 1650cc class. This is an adult icon :cheers: This is a FRO icon :mrgreen: This is the "why can't we all get along" icon :-D
Sometimes you adult members just amaze me. :oops:
Guy
#3135 very far from #4 or #45
And Deb you are still my Cone Queen. All hail the queen. :-)
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The cool thing is that an event where you are racing for points is it still gives another racer the chance to enter your class and get a record as well before they are perhaps too high for the novice or one time a season racer.
I hope to see some great speeds come from Jason, Bill, Trilly, Jody, Guy etc..again my personal feeling is not to allow running up in classes and to verify actual vehicle displacement as we are aware of racers that have set records at Maxton with nitrous and with big bore engines that are larger than the entered class allows. This happened at Bonneville one time with a "Stock Busa" and now the SCTA inspectors do a better job of making sure that the class limits are not being "pushed"
I made mention of the 50cc bike running in an "Unlimited" class, not running up one class say 75cc?..I can read and write, I don't need help so please do not misconstrue my words as I have written them.
I'm not sure i understand your point John. I have modified my original post to say "displacement classes" from the original wording "class" IE: singular
From your reply to my post it appears that you support running up one class but do not agree that a racer should be allowed to run up to the unlimited class?
Isn't that like being kind of pregnant? Sort of cheating? You are either in the correct class or you aren't.
Futhermore, I have never posted that you could not read or write. I will admit to sometimes finding it hard to follow your personal agenda, logic and train of thought.
In my original post I was making a direct comparison between setting records against soft SCTA El Mirage minimums versus running up displacement classes and setting records. My point is what's the difference between the two? This was not a personal jab at anyone who does this. If there is anyone at fault it would be the persons involved in setting the minimums that were too low. Reading the record book and using the existing classes to win a championship is a smart way to win. Others may not agree but if it's in the book it's fair game. The trophy is the same size whether you won it racing on minimums and sandbagging or ran against what some would consider "Real records"
Playing chess or racing take your pick!
As far as cheating is concerned i am all for calling cheaters out. Prove the offence and let us know who's cheating so tech and the competitors can have a close look at the vehicle before it runs and takes a legal record out of the book. Rumours and hearsay are just that. Talk is cheap.
We should start another thread with who's been caught cheating and Tech can run over the vehicles with a fine tooth comb. Better yet maybe we should have a three strikes rule?
So who got their knuckles whacked for cheating in 2008??? Mr Pot say Hello to Mr Kettle!
Now back to the original topic.
In conclusion, I support LTA allowing the practice of running up in displacement classes. This is self leveling and the soft records will eventually be eclipsed by "qualified records" as the organization matures and hopefully prospers.
See you in August!
Jason McVicar
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I think there are two distinct classes of records.
Sure, if you run on an open record or faster than the last guy you have a record.
There are a lot of records out there that don't get any respect from me. Setting a record and putting it way out of reach is what everyone should be aiming for.
Look at the motorcycle classes. For any given class bigger engines should go faster. Fuel is on average 10+ mph faster than gas. Partial streamlining is 15+ mph faster than naked.
Bonneville in the A-G class - unstreamlined on gas.
500 cc 165 mph
750 cc 171 mph
1000 cc 169 mph
2000 cc 171 mph
Scott Guthrie's 500 record is fast. The other records should be much faster.
500 cc A-G 165 mph
500 cc A-F 170 mph
500 cc APS-G 169 mph
500 cc APS-F 166 mph
All belong to Scott Guthrie. On fuel with partial streamlining and only 1 mph faster?
Don't even get me started on push rod and vintage classes. 500 cc M-VBG? A booming 60 mph. And you complain about the time it takes for the 50cc guys to run. This record and a ton just like will be on the books forever because nobody will ever run the class.
So who has gotten their knuckles whacked this year?Huh? Mr Pot say Hello to Mr Kettle!
Well, actually nobody has because this is 2009 and nobody has raced. 8-)
In conclusion, I support LTA allowing the practice of running up in displacement classes. This is self leveling and the soft records will eventually be eclipised by "qualified records" as the orginization matures and hopefully prospers.
That's one way to look at it. Running up in class makes money for the organization. Past that it fills holes that don't need to be filled.
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I tuned into this thread late and haven't read back from here, but noticed a mention of cheating and thought I'd share a story.
Back in 1995 I was helping Chauvin Emmons at his shop. One day we were talking about Bonneville, and out of the blue I said to him, "What do you think about the guys that cheat?"
He laughed and said, "They're fools. They're cheating themselves. Anyone that cheats and gets a record knows they cheated to get it. They're fooling themselves."
Dave Mann
http://www.roadsters.com/
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To set Joe's comments - and the record (so to speak) straight:
I ran 31.233 mph on my pit bike at the Street Bike shootout sponsored by Super Street magazine a couple of years ago at Maxton. I ran the 80 cc Honda in the "under 600 fuel" class. As I was the only entrant in the class - I was awarded the prize for the fastest speed of the class. There was no mention, at any time, of a record. I ran according to the rules set down by the sponsoring organization, was the fastest under those specific rules, and was the recipient of the prize.
No record was broken or set during the course of my run. I did get quite a laugh from the spectators, though. . .
But I digress from the topic at hand, as have many of the members of the Forum. Hey, it's Friday night. Give us some room to relax, okay?
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Friday Night,, sitting here having a Bud light Lime and reading the John and Scott duel....
Loring is going to be fun...
Charles
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ahhhhhh..........I so love this stuff.............
each year....we get to know one another.....more and more.....
:):)
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Time for some Rodney King???
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aMfr2CgIPhg
:mrgreen:
Mike
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Hey guys let's not kid ourselves. This stuff is very important.
There are 6,800,000,000 people(six point eight billion for our metric friends!) on this planet and LSR is so important to those people that a total 500 of them built cars and bikes and raced at Speedweek in 2008.
Outside of our little group not a whole lot of people give two hoots what we are doing in the middle of desert or salt flat. If we can't agree between ourselves how are we going to get the other 6,799,999,500 people alive interested in LSR? :cheers:
Good night!
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Personally, I think I'll go back to the Jaguar post and look at the nice TATAs .... :-D :cheers: (hey, I used the let's all get along and the adult smiley) :roll:
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That means i would get to make a run every 64600 years. Hope my leathers still fit me then.
Sheri Buchta
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Jason,
We don't want the rest of the world to get interested in LSR, imagine the lines..
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i think we need a poll as to how many feel running up is ok... but the poll should only restrict you to one vote so the ECTA folks dont cheet and kill the credibility of the poll lololololololololololololololololololololololololololol peedmypants lolololololololololololool oopspeedmypantsagain lolololololol
kent
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Interesting as the keyboard jockeys will type away and talk Poop however I spoke with one of you the other day for 45 minutes on the phone and we laughed and had a good time, spoke with another two weeks ago and several times since Bonneville and you won't say crap to my face however you come on the mighty keyboard and get big quick..
From now on I will start posting what you "friends and fellow racers" have told me in private since you type a totally different story here..
John
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Ok, speaking about running up a class . . . or two.
I did actually enter and run a mini bike in Top Fuel motorcycle.
I lost in the first round.
Ok, Ok, I'll tell the story. I had a twin engine mini bike (set two records at Bonneville . . . In the correct class) that we also ran at the local drags. We ran at an all bike drag meet in the bracket class (won the bracket.) but there were so many entries that we didn't get very many runs.
A month later there was another all bike drag meet. We had noticed that the Top Fuel guys were pitting at the finish line so they could tow start towards the start line, then make the pass. And they ran twice as often during qualifying.
So we entered Top Fuel, made twice as many passes on Saturday, actually four times as many because we had an electric starter and could make a pretty good launch towards the start line. :cheers:
The 13.85 with a 250 cc made us pretty happy but we sure lost by a ton! :-D
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Yawn...
You see how this went from running up in class to this..keep it up old chap..this is getting entertaining to the masses..
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Ok, speaking about running up a class . . . or two.
I did actually enter and run a mini bike in Top Fuel motorcycle.
I lost in the first round.
Ok, Ok, I'll tell the story. I had a twin engine mini bike (set two records at Bonneville . . . In the correct class) that we also ran at the local drags. We ran at an all bike drag meet in the bracket class (won the bracket.) but there were so many entries that we didn't get very many runs.
A month later there was another all bike drag meet. We had noticed that the Top Fuel guys were pitting at the finish line so they could tow start towards the start line, then make the pass. And they ran twice as often during qualifying.
So we entered Top Fuel, made twice as many passes on Saturday, actually four times as many because we had an electric starter and could make a pretty good launch towards the start line. :cheers:
The 13.85 with a 250 cc made us pretty happy but we sure lost by a ton! :-D
Dean,
Please post a picture of the mini twin as it will be a good pattern interrupt and will add even more hilarity to this bull crap with MR Maxton..
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Jason,
I totally like and respect you and your racing, you are the racers racer, great builder, tuner and rider, I don't like Scott because of his personal agendas with regard to his own record self preservation techniques with Maxton and Texas..seems after he ran a stellar 250+ pass on a road race slick with a tire warmer the new rules later dictated the use of a DOT street tire I have called and PM'd Scott to talk about this and he won't answer. I respect his racing he used to do and the many other things he has done in his Golden years (he is a phenomenal swimmer) and still a great racer however he is all about himself and cannot admit to a mistake as he blames it on others when cornered. At my first Maxton event Scott was the one that told Keith, Guy Caputo and I that "We meaning he and the ECTA" had changed the Altered Partial Streamlined class to no longer allow "Altered Partial Streamlined" motorcycles to compete and that the new requirement was that the bike was to be a streamliner to compete in the class.
Then the new rule came out regarding a DOT street tire for Texas and when I asked the folks in charge it was mentioned that Scott was the person advising them to run a DOT tire..
Scott was the one who initially told me how to "skirt the letter of the written rule" with regards to stuffing a gas tank(to get an M bike in to the "A" class) and the stuff that may not be legal however was not mentioned in the rule book when I started racing in 2002. Scott went on to teach me things that were very important to him like setting several records in different classes to litter your name in the rule book.
I may post the story later of my experience of a certain racer later so all can see what he is about, this will also give him time to make up stories that he will make a valiant attempt at calling the truth.
John
Thank you for the compliments John.
I'm not following the slick vs dot tire issue. Are you suggesting that a slick is a better tire for Texas and Guthrie campained the Texas Mile to use inferior DOT tires to preserve his track record?
When i was a Texas in October Guthrie was the only fast bike without a tire warmer. I don't think warmers are illegal in fact the may be a safety item.
As far as stuffing the tank I have done it many times when it was legal to do so. Post rule change i just whipped up a smaller tank no big deal. I have also added one rear peg to get into the "A" classes when it was legal.
Reading and understanding the rulebook is not a crime!
Building a car or bike to run against easily attainable records or minimums doesn't in my mind tarnish the accomplishment Some people would disagree but again reading the rulebook is not a crime.
In summary, I am still for being able to run up in displacement class at Loring.
Jason
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Jason,
I totally like and respect you and your racing, you are the racers racer, great builder, tuner and rider, I don't like Scott because of his personal agendas with regard to his own record self preservation techniques with Maxton and Texas..seems after he ran a stellar 250+ pass on a road race slick with a tire warmer the new rules later dictated the use of a DOT street tire I have called and PM'd Scott to talk about this and he won't answer. I respect his racing he used to do and the many other things he has done in his Golden years (he is a phenomenal swimmer) and still a great racer however he is all about himself and cannot admit to a mistake as he blames it on others when cornered. At my first Maxton event Scott was the one that told Keith, Guy Caputo and I that "We meaning he and the ECTA" had changed the Altered Partial Streamlined class to no longer allow "Altered Partial Streamlined" motorcycles to compete and that the new requirement was that the bike was to be a streamliner to compete in the class.
Then the new rule came out regarding a DOT street tire for Texas and when I asked the folks in charge it was mentioned that Scott was the person advising them to run a DOT tire..
Scott was the one who initially told me how to "skirt the letter of the written rule" with regards to stuffing a gas tank(to get an M bike in to the "A" class) and the stuff that may not be legal however was not mentioned in the rule book when I started racing in 2002. Scott went on to teach me things that were very important to him like setting several records in different classes to litter your name in the rule book.
I may post the story later of my experience of a certain racer later so all can see what he is about, this will also give him time to make up stories that he will make a valiant attempt at calling the truth.
John
Thank you for the compliments John.
I'm not following the slick vs dot tire issue. Are you suggesting that a slick is a better tire for Texas and Guthrie campained the Texas Mile to use inferior DOT tires to preserve his track record?
When i was a Texas in October Guthrie was the only fast bike without a tire warmer. I don't think warmers are illegal in fact the may be a safety item.
As far as stuffing the tank I have done it many times when it was legal to do so. Post rule change i just whipped up a smaller tank no big deal. I have also added one rear peg to get into the "A" classes when it was legal.
Reading and understanding the rulebook is not a crime!
Building a car or bike to run against easily attainable records or minimums doesn't in my mind tarnish the accomplishment Some people would disagree but again reading the rulebook is not a crime.
In summary, I am still for being able to run up in displacement class at Loring.
Jason
Jason,
I will leave our conversations out as I fully respect you as previously stated.
BTW, tire warmers are legal at all LSR venues.
And I stated in my first post to allow the running up and to "Get the money".
I am aware it will take a lot to get this new org going and for it to be able to sustain itself.
J
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Interesting as the keyboard jockeys will type away and talk Poop however I spoke with one of you the other day for 45 minutes on the phone and we laughed and had a good time, spoke with another two weeks ago and several times since Bonneville and you won't say crap to my face however you come on the mighty keyboard and get big quick..
From now on I will start posting what you "friends and fellow racers" have told me in private since you type a totally different story here..
John
Now I'm really losing the plot!
I spoke with you John on Sunday for a bit and we went back and forth and told each other lies and bs'd as usual.
Are you implying that I'm a keyboard jockey? (I have been called a carpet jockey before)
Or was that in reference to the "other caller"?
Please post up the juicy details asap in the cheating thread and we can eagerly await the response.
Unless of course you are referring to me, then i will stand by my word that sheep are people too!
In conclusion, I still agree with running up in engine class at Loring.
Jason.
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Wow! :-o I go to bed and wake up and there's 4 more pages??? It's hard to watch your friends go at it like this. Can we bring this back to being a LTA thread again?
Guy
a no nothing #3135 ECTA LSR wanna be.
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I agree with Guy, Slim, the banter of the last 4 pages needs to be relocated... it was a fun read, don't get me wrong, but it has little to do with the Loring venue.
And guys, I've said this before, we are all members of the LSR racing family.... you can pick your friends, but you are stuck with what you get for family.... :| you don't have to like 'em but you do have to race with 'em... :cheers:
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According to that little line on top, this thread has been read almost 9000 times. Now I do realize probably a couple thousand are just Scott and John, but there's got to be a lot of lurkers out there getting a decidedly unfavorable impression of our sport, due to misunderstanding the fierce level of competition between some of our peers.
At risk of causing the ire of any and all of those involved to be directed towards the LTA, (The Loring Timing Association, of which this is the original intended Forum), I'd like to ask for a truce, at least here, Please ?
"Nobody said there'd be days like this, strange days indeed" ( J Lennon)
I Thank Y'all
Bob W
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I second the motion .... any OPPOSED ???
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Am I the only one that thinks the speeds at Loring are not going to be THAT much faster? I am thinking a little faster but not what people are imagining. It still takes set-up and Hp, correct? I do realize that with the extra distance, extra Hp in a turbo bike can be applied and more importantly the sharp corners of little mistakes (shift points, throttle control...) are smoothed out. But do you all really think people are going to be pulling 10-15 mph out of their butts :| I checked with the guys that have run the 1.5 over the pond... this is why I am thinking this way.
Bill
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None opposed..
Like I said in my apology to Bob and his organization, I know it's a start of new venue, run up in class, go fast be safe, we don't need to lose anymore racers.
If Jon or Scott (or any "Moderator") want's to remove all of the drivel from yesterday so be it..this as explained should not have gotten off track and I apologized several times and seem to continue to do so even now.
I respect and admire every racer mentioned for all that they have done and continue to accomplish in this little "Hobby" we call LSR, We may not like each other however that is fine as well however you must be professional on and off the track and yesterday some things were said (posted) that were not. Again an apology..
Did make for some great reading.
John
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Bill,
Trust me you guys and gals are going to go at least 5-10 mph faster, the guys over the pond have never equaled the speeds we as a group have done over here whether at El Mirage, Texas, Bonneville and Maxton.
They have had a few fast passes and the fastest ever recorded at 265.4 mph however that was done by Frank with a 35+ mph tailwind as told to me by a fellow racer that did race the same weekend. The return speeds were much less and the average was less than 250 for the two way.
Their is another event there in Sept and if their is not a lot of wind or moisture is will be a good comparison to the speeds you folks will run at Loring.
John
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Nice.. :-D
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My apologies that a few LTA related items may have been moved when this post was split & relocated. I did the split where it seems things went astray. Please repost your related LTA thoughts in the proper LTA thread.
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My apologies that a few LTA related items may have been moved when this post was split & relocated. I did the split where it seems things went astray. Please repost your related LTA thoughts in the proper LTA thread.
No worries...and thanks.
John
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i can't see me class jumping for extra records, even if i had the money.the bike belongs
where it belongs.
though the extra money generated is good for a new org.; it can fill
holes in the runway.
franey
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I will pay the amounts to run up in the motor classes. This not only helps their coffers, but allows me to get those little pieces of paper that I frame and hang up to cover holes in my walls at the shop. Running on virgin open records should be a real hoot and if nothing else, you will be the record holder until they decide to hold a second event at which time mine will get smashed anyways.
Guy
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guy
got the flake man!
kent
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I care, I aint gona Cheat,And as was said earlier if you do get away with cheating you have only cheated yourself and maybe taken the chance of a straight players record chance away.
I am going to give it my best shot hopefull pushing the 1000cc A/F A/G Class record up a bit "Fingers Crossed" or blow the motor trying.
Its not whether you have won or lost its how you play the Game
Oz
oops I am a bit behind!
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guy
got the flake man!
kent
Can't wait.
Is it done yet? is it, C'mon you can tell me, is it done yet? Huh?
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guy
ill pull over at the next rest stop if you haven't peed your pants yet
Kent
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Hey, the title of this thread includes "...miscellaneous banter", so, with that in mind -- whaddaya think of this?
http://www.jacksflaps.com/info.html
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Does it come with a secure cell phone pocket for Nooooonan. :? :evil: :cheers:
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Does it come with a secure cell phone pocket for Nooooonan. :? :evil: :cheers:
Sorry Glen I already looked in to that and was gung ho on the idea until I read the disclosure>
Be advised that this vest does not work on Electra-Glides, and it does not work on bikes without windshields.
J
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Noonan, back to the duct tape. :-D
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Do they have one with vortex generators? :mrgreen:
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Put it on backwards using the flaps for down force. Add the parachute and you're good to go.
DW
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Dan that sounds like a FR rule. :evil:
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Just banter.
DW