Landracing Forum
Tech Information => Technical Discussion => Topic started by: Ratliff on December 10, 2008, 12:41:43 AM
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A former holder of the World Land Speed Record observed that a sort of macho culture has built up in land speed racing which has resulted in cars being built with primitive primary and secondary safety concerns, leaving Bonneville drivers running unnecessarily high risks due to minimal safety structures.
Everyone who watched the video of Jason McVicar's separation from his bike at 240 mph saw that separating from his bike not only did absolutely nothing to shorten the distance McVicar traveled after leaving the bike, but that the bike could easily have ended up back on top of him.
Despite McVicar's crash, despite the fact it wasn't the first time a rider had separated from a land speed bike going 200 mph, despite Dave Owen's fatal crash at an ECTA meet, despite the fact personnel drag chutes have worked in drag boats for years, and despite the fact there is plenty of time before the next season for a sufficient number of rider drag chutes to be manufactured, the SCTA has officially chosen to ignore my very well informed advice about mandating rider drag chutes.
(In the attached photo of Larry Welch's rocket bike, designed and built by Arvil Porter, note the rider drag chute on Welch's back and the canard wings on Welch's bike.)
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A former holder of the World Land Speed Record observed that a sort of macho culture has built up in land speed racing which has resulted in cars being built with primitive primary and secondary safety concerns, leaving Bonneville drivers running unnecessarily high risks due to minimal safety structures.
Everyone who watched the video of Jason McVicar's separation from his bike at 240 mph saw that separating from his bike not only did absolutely nothing to shorten the distance McVicar traveled after leaving the bike, but that the bike could easily have ended up back on top of him.
Despite McVicar's crash, despite the fact it wasn't the first time a rider had separated from a land speed bike going 200 mph, despite Dave Owen's fatal crash at an ECTA meet, despite the fact personnel drag chutes have worked in drag boats for years, and despite the fact there is plenty of time before the next season for a sufficient number of rider drag chutes to be manufactured, the SCTA has officially chosen to ignore my very well informed advice about mandating rider drag chutes.
Franklin,
Please consider this a very serious question:
Do you want to be banned yet again?
If so please keep posting this drivel you do so well.
John
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A former holder of the World Land Speed Record observed that a sort of macho culture has built up in land speed racing which has resulted in cars being built with primitive primary and secondary safety concerns, leaving Bonneville drivers running unnecessarily high risks due to minimal safety structures.
Everyone who watched the video of Jason McVicar's separation from his bike at 240 mph saw that separating from his bike not only did absolutely nothing to shorten the distance McVicar traveled after leaving the bike, but that the bike could easily have ended up back on top of him.
Despite McVicar's crash, despite the fact it wasn't the first time a rider had separated from a land speed bike going 200 mph, despite Dave Owen's fatal crash at an ECTA meet, despite the fact personnel drag chutes have worked in drag boats for years, and despite the fact there is plenty of time before the next season for a sufficient number of rider drag chutes to be manufactured, the SCTA has officially chosen to ignore my very well informed advice about mandating rider drag chutes.
Franklin,
Please consider this a very serious question:
Do you want to be banned yet again?
If so please keep posting this drivel you do so well.
John
Unlike a "real racer", I didn't wait for Jason McVicar to happen before proposing rider drag chutes for open land speed bike racers.
http://www.landracing.com/forum/index.php/topic,4250.0.html
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Jason is more of a racer than you could even dream of being....
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Jason is more of a racer than you could even dream of being....
Jason I am sure would state after what he went through he would not have wanted a rider chute...he walked to dinner that evening. :cheers:
Jason..?
J
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Attached is a 1974 photo of genius designer/builder Arvil Porter, creator of the hydrogen peroxide rocket bike, riding his own rocket bike. Note the rider drag chute Arvil is wearing.
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I think the drag chute would have slowed my slide much sooner than without but i would hate to have an accidental deployment when i was making a pass.
Maybe a chute on the bike so it doesn't "collect" the rider.
Once again the rules are minimums and riders have the choice to exceed the printed minimum safety rules if they so choose.
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I think the drag chute would have slowed my slide much sooner than without but i would hate to have an accidental deployment when i was making a pass.
Maybe a chute on the bike so it doesn't "collect" the rider.
Once again the rules are minimums and riders have the choice to exceed the printed minimum safety rules if they so choose.
A chute and something to keep the head from not going forward when the chute is going backward....ouch...
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I think the drag chute would have slowed my slide much sooner than without but i would hate to have an accidental deployment when i was making a pass.
Maybe a chute on the bike so it doesn't "collect" the rider.
Once again the rules are minimums and riders have the choice to exceed the printed minimum safety rules if they so choose.
Jason - The chute is released by a static line connected to the bike. The chute deploys because the rider is already leaving the bike.
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Accidental deployment was the terminology used and was mentioned as a concern, please keep up..
What different injuries would Jason have had with a deathchute I mean Parachute..
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Accidental deployment was the terminology used and was mentioned as a concern, please keep up..
What different injuries would Jason have had with a deathchute I mean Parachute..
Your conclusions are not supported by any empirical experience, i.e. reality.
With the creation of the Hayabusa, Suzuki engineers have made some bike racers think they're geniuses.
Larry Welch, the first drag bike racer to go 200 mph, wore a rider drag chute. Arvil Porter, the man who designed and built the rocket motors and frame for Welch's bike, himself wore a rider drag chute when running his own rocket drag bike, achieving a personal best of 196 mph.
Some bike racers dismiss the idea of the rider drag chute for the sole reason that because they didn't think of it themselves it therefore must be a bad idea.
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Accidental deployment was the terminology used and was mentioned as a concern, please keep up..
What different injuries would Jason have had with a deathchute I mean Parachute..
Your conclusions are not supported by any empirical experience, i.e. reality.
With the creation of the Hayabusa, Suzuki engineers have made some bike racers think they're geniuses.
Larry Welch, the first drag bike racer to go 200 mph, wore a rider drag chute. Arvil Porter, the man who designed and built the rocket motors and frame for Welch's bike, himself wore a rider drag chute when running his own rocket drag bike, achieving a personal best of 196 mph.
Some bike racers dismiss the idea of the rider drag chute for the sole reason that because they didn't think of it themselves it therefore must be a bad idea.
Ratcliff,
Thank you for once again not answering the questions asked of you in response to the BS you blatantly post here over and over.
Have you ever raced at the salt or the lakes Maxton even in any vehicle other than a dream machine?
Have you ever volunteered to assist any of the organizations while attending a time trial?
Have you even one timing slip from above Org's?
I am betting the simple answer will be a resounding NO...
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Accidental deployment was the terminology used and was mentioned as a concern, please keep up..
What different injuries would Jason have had with a deathchute I mean Parachute..
Your conclusions are not supported by any empirical experience, i.e. reality.
With the creation of the Hayabusa, Suzuki engineers have made some bike racers think they're geniuses.
Larry Welch, the first drag bike racer to go 200 mph, wore a rider drag chute. Arvil Porter, the man who designed and built the rocket motors and frame for Welch's bike, himself wore a rider drag chute when running his own rocket drag bike, achieving a personal best of 196 mph.
Some bike racers dismiss the idea of the rider drag chute for the sole reason that because they didn't think of it themselves it therefore must be a bad idea.
Ratcliff,
Thank you for once again not answering the questions asked of you in response to the BS you blatantly post here over and over.
Have you ever raced at the salt or the lakes Maxton even in any vehicle other than a dream machine?
Have you ever volunteered to assist any of the organizations while attending a time trial?
Have you even one timing slip from above Org's?
I am betting the simple answer will be a resounding NO...
How many motorcycle frames have you designed and built? Have you ever designed from scratch a motorcycle engine? Since you run in a category that doesn't even require drag chutes, what is your experience installing, packing, and releasing chutes?
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Accidental deployment was the terminology used and was mentioned as a concern, please keep up..
What different injuries would Jason have had with a deathchute I mean Parachute..
Your conclusions are not supported by any empirical experience, i.e. reality.
With the creation of the Hayabusa, Suzuki engineers have made some bike racers think they're geniuses.
Larry Welch, the first drag bike racer to go 200 mph, wore a rider drag chute. Arvil Porter, the man who designed and built the rocket motors and frame for Welch's bike, himself wore a rider drag chute when running his own rocket drag bike, achieving a personal best of 196 mph.
Some bike racers dismiss the idea of the rider drag chute for the sole reason that because they didn't think of it themselves it therefore must be a bad idea.
Ratcliff,
Thank you for once again not answering the questions asked of you in response to the BS you blatantly post here over and over.
Have you ever raced at the salt or the lakes Maxton even in any vehicle other than a dream machine?
Have you ever volunteered to assist any of the organizations while attending a time trial?
Have you even one timing slip from above Org's?
I am betting the simple answer will be a resounding NO...
How many motorcycle frames have you designed and built? Have you ever designed from scratch a motorcycle engine? Since you run in a category that doesn't even require drag chutes, what is your experience installing, packing, and releasing chutes?
And as expected you failed to answer any questions :roll:....No and none.
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Accidental deployment was the terminology used and was mentioned as a concern, please keep up..
What different injuries would Jason have had with a deathchute I mean Parachute..
Your conclusions are not supported by any empirical experience, i.e. reality.
With the creation of the Hayabusa, Suzuki engineers have made some bike racers think they're geniuses.
Larry Welch, the first drag bike racer to go 200 mph, wore a rider drag chute. Arvil Porter, the man who designed and built the rocket motors and frame for Welch's bike, himself wore a rider drag chute when running his own rocket drag bike, achieving a personal best of 196 mph.
Some bike racers dismiss the idea of the rider drag chute for the sole reason that because they didn't think of it themselves it therefore must be a bad idea.
Ratcliff,
Thank you for once again not answering the questions asked of you in response to the BS you blatantly post here over and over.
Have you ever raced at the salt or the lakes Maxton even in any vehicle other than a dream machine?
Have you ever volunteered to assist any of the organizations while attending a time trial?
Have you even one timing slip from above Org's?
I am betting the simple answer will be a resounding NO...
How many motorcycle frames have you designed and built? Have you ever designed from scratch a motorcycle engine? Since you run in a category that doesn't even require drag chutes, what is your experience installing, packing, and releasing chutes?
And as expected you failed to answer any questions :roll:....No and none.
So apparently you don't have the slightest firsthand experience of any kind with drag chutes, but have decided you've somehow all of a sudden become an expert anyway.
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Ratcliff:
John answered your question directly and honestly. You have done neither for any question put to you. You have no credibility.
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Ratcliff:
John answered your question directly and honestly. You have done neither for any question put to you. You have no credibility.
Any other response is irrelevant because it's simply responding to an ad hominen attack.
The only relevant response is knowledge of and experience with drag chutes.
Never deploying let alone never even touching a drag chute is hardly qualification for a critical response.
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So apparently you don't have the slightest firsthand experience of any kind with drag chutes, but have decided you've somehow all of a sudden become an expert anyway.
Raty has no experience in ANYTHING yet is an expert.
Jason's crash video clearly shows him being spit off AHEAD of the bike. The parachute would have pulled him back and the bike would have run over him.
God, this is such fun!
Raty's website:
http://www.moronregistry.com/ (http://www.moronregistry.com/)
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Drivers with personnel drag chutes have been separating from drag boats at all kinds of angles and attitudes for decades.
The experience of people going 240 to 260 mph on open bikes told nothing to anyone about what would happen when an open bike got sideways at 240 mph, or what would happen when the rider separated from the bike.
When I began pushing for rider drag chutes I wasn't reacting to anything that had already happened.
I was pushing for rider drag chutes before a rider came off a bike at Bonneville going 200+ mph. I was pushing for rider drag chutes before anyone got killed on an open land speed bike.
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i don't know about or have an opinion about rider drag chutes. but ratliff, you seem to enjoy pizzing this forum off.
then, when something important needs to be answered, on another thread ; the person w/ a needed reply might just blow it off--cuz of you!
franey
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i don't know about or have an opinion about rider drag chutes. but ratliff, you seem to enjoy pizzing this forum off.
then, when something important needs to be answered, on another thread ; the person w/ a needed reply might just blow it off--cuz of you!
franey
And how does this relate to the technical issues involved with rider drag chute deployment?
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Dean, I heard he was kicked off tha moron site as well :-o
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I don't make a pimple on a land racers butt . But a parachute on a motorcycle ?
This must be a joke?
#1 WTF
#2 How would it have helped Dave ?
#3 I cant imagine what you would hook it to . Would you hook it to the bike?
If you hooked it to the rider.Would it brake your back or neck when it blossomed. When you are falling or jump out of an airplane your feet are down and the chute is on the top. If you are tumbling across asphalt and it could pop open with your body tangled in string.
This MUST be a joke.Or a Troll post.
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I don't make a pimple on a land racers butt . But a parachute on a motorcycle ?
This must be a joke?
#1 WTF
#2 How would it have helped Dave ?
#3 I cant imagine what you would hook it to . Would you hook it to the bike?
If you hooked it to the rider.Would it brake your back or neck when it blossomed. When you are falling or jump out of an airplane your feet are down and the chute is on the top. If you are tumbling across asphalt and it could pop open with your body tangled in string.
This MUST be a joke.Or a Troll post.
Those questions were all answered over 34 years ago. You hook a static line (a tether) from the chute to the bike. If the rider begins separating from the bike his body puts tension on the static line and releases the chute.
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I must apologize I thought this was a Joke. I still don't get it. you have a chute hooked to your back? and tie the line that pulls the chute out of its pack to the bike. So when you fall off the bike . You get dragged buy the bike along with the chute down the track.
The bike being the heavy object I would think the bike would be in front of the rider.
I must admit I know very little . But I still cant figure out how the chute will open with rider and bike dragging along the ground.
And I don't think it will do much if you leave the track.
Maybe a Bonneville it could work but at tracks like Maxton I just cant see how it would help.Sorry for my own confusion.
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I must apologize I thought this was a Joke. I still don't get it. you have a chute hooked to your back? and tie the line that pulls the chute out of its pack to the bike. So when you fall off the bike . You get dragged buy the bike along with the chute down the track.
The bike being the heavy object I would think the bike would be in front of the rider.
I must admit I know very little . But I still cant figure out how the chute will open with rider and bike dragging along the ground.
And I don't think it will do much if you leave the track.
Maybe a Bonneville it could work but at tracks like Maxton I just cant see how it would help.Sorry for my own confusion.
You're still not getting it. The static line just RELEASES the chute. It doesn't need to pull out the chute because the chute deploys on its own. You can see that in the photos.
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I understand now. I could not make out the photo. the release pin tether is hooked to the bike like a kill lynyrd. the chute pops up from the shoulder. I do believe it could work . Of course nothing will work for every circumstance but I can see how it could work.
I personally would not want the drag penalty of the thing on my back .But I see how it works now
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O.K. O.K. I should not really get into this........BUT
back in the early 1990's while at the Zandvoort
Circuit in the Netherland I saw a test of a BMW
motorcycle with outrigger wheels on both sides of the bike (so there would be no damage to the bike from falling over) the rider was wearing a chute that he deployed at approx. 60 or 70mph.
and it pulled him off the bike with no problem and he landed safely on the track. This was a test for a movie stunt................what the results would be at higher speeds I would not know.....I do recall it was a fairly small chute......the stuntman is a good friend of mine (Herman Ooster) . He did it again for the movie.....so yes, it works at below 100mph.
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So Bob can we count your passenger or rider to have them next year at the bubs meet?
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Jason's accident was a classic high side. If you don't know what that is, a low side is when you lose traction and the rear end goes out from underneath you and you fall on the low side.
A high side is when you lose the rear end and the rear tire bites and launches you in front of the bike. Having the bike catch up to you is never a fun experience. It might or might not catch you.
The parachute guarantees the bike will catch up to you.
Even if you miss the bike, the landing from high altitude is going to break things. The MotoGP guys break bones all the time. The parachute won't help that. BTW, I don't see the MotoGP guys wearing them. Hey Ratliff! Spend some time over on the MotoGP side convincing them of the error of their ways.
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John N.
No chute for our sidecar team......BUT when you really think about it.... IF.... a chute were to work at all............................................................................... ,
the kneeling position of the driver and the prone position of the passenger on the sidecar platform would certainly make it a lot easier to get "away" from the outfit......................................
But at this time no chutes for us.............................