Landracing Forum
Tech Information => Technical Discussion => Topic started by: Racerboy on October 21, 2008, 11:08:34 PM
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With the water tank ready to install in my Comp coup I was wondering where to put the remote water pump. What are your thoughts about the best location of the pump. If the tank is in the back of the car is it better to locate the pump by the tank and push the water through the motor or should I have the pump close to the motor and pull it up to the motor. I will be using about 18 gallons to cool the motor
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Always push :-)
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Always push :-)
yep, search the site, you'll find out why
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Feed the pump with the largest line you can and do your restricting as it leaves the engine. Do not starve the pump, be able to bleed it, and lastly have an air/water bleed at the highest point of the engine to make sure all of the air is out of it...........Good Luck
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yep push ,with big attention to prime and bleed....
kent
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also keep as low as possible, we run ours along the lower frame rail, that way you always have "x" inches of water column helping to prime the pump.
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By looking at your avatar I think you are familiar with the JFK pumps used on sprint cars, etc. We run the pump off the front of the engine with the remote tank in the rear of the chassis. Free advice from Ed Pink, use this pump. You can never have enough water, the idea is to eliminate any possibility of steam pockets.
Also, a heads up. Rules for 2009 will elminate any cooling liquid other than pure water. The exception will be the allowed use of a product such as Water Wetter or Purple Ice.
DW
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The supply line(suction) should always be larger then the output line, And as Dallas says keep them low to have a good head of water.
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I am running 2 pumps, one at the water tank in the front of the car pushing and the other pump at the motor pushing (about 15' between pumps).
I talked with an engineer at Meziere and he suggested this setup....
Is this bad?
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JH, I don't think that setup is bad. My only concern would be to make sure the tank pump is the same or greater volumn then the second pump so as not to starve or cavitate the second pump. I think that could introduce air into the system or possibly damage the second pump.
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JH,
Thanks for the nudge. We also used a pusher pump at the tank.
DW
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Please excuse my Salt ignorance (never having raced there) YET !!!
It seems as if you guys use large tanks of water to cool the engine.... Does this mean nobody runs a Radiator ?
Is the extreme heat the reason for using large capacity water tanks vs a radiator ?
Any help would be appreciated as we are about to begin my Stude build and I prefer to do the right (best thing)
Oh well, better finish packing for Maxton, need to be there by 8:00am...in the morning...
Charles
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CK, 20 gal of H20 = 160 lbs of ballast. That's why for us.
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Dallas,
I see,,, I am still wondering "for engine cooling porpose" not ballast would a good radiator still work OK ?
It would seem that ballast is a by product, not the primary reason for the water tank? Or am I wrong, it would seem that to get the weight needed using water, it would take up more space in the car and be more difficult to place where you need it,,
I am no expert, so Just asking..
Charles
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Kind of 2 reasons one is like I mentioned before not just ballast but working ballast. The other is aero. If your worried about keeping the motor cool enough here is an example from what we run. When we run the gas motor (500" bowtie) I don't even turn on the water pump until the 1st mile and at the end of the run we're about 220. When we ran the blown alky motor (300" small block) I never even turned the pump on and end up about 240.
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If you use a radiator you need to run air through it. Drag. A reasonable amount of water will act as a heat sink to absorb the excess heat for the short time we run with out the drag associated with the radiator. Except when I ran turbocharged I made a lot more heat and needed more water than I had made provision for.
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Another reason a water tank is better is because the air flow past the radiator ....it has to go somewhere; usually it heats up the engine bay and is sucked under the car. This heated air is no prob if you have a traditional ride. If you intend to have a belly pan you now have to find somewhere with equal or greater air flow than the incoming air to exit the vehicle. This heated air and its method for exit can cause flow disruptions and even more drag then just the obvious air going in.
I read somewhere that a radiator causes about 20% of your overall drag. I don’t know if this is true but I wouldn’t take a chance!
Our class (MS) dictates you have a radiator and I do have one. I will however not say how functional it is.
:wink:
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Cajun --
An 18-gallon water tank (in our case 1/4" bottom and 1/8" sides and top) takes up less space than an 18-gallon radiator. And you can put it where you need it.
18 gallons may seem like a lot, but it's doing double duty. And remember, 5 miles is more than 1 mile.
Our pump is belt driven off the front of the motor -- no one needs to remember to turn it on.
Stan Back
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Just like Dallas said, working ballast. I also run a 20 gallon tank in my Street Roadster, with a radiator required by class rules but not needed for cooling. My custom aluminum tank is right behind the seat and in front of the frame kick-up, hence in front of the rear axle.
I love it when you can have one thing perform more than one function (i.e. one bracket holding several items).
Tom
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Thannks for the info,,, I think the Stude will have a water tank not a radiator...
Can some one give me info on belt driven water pump ?
Does this do away with the traditional water pump mounted to my block?
Charles
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the only problem with a belt drive is that it only works when the motor is running..... I heat my water to 130f and turn on the pump to warm and expand the motor(s) then after the run i keep the pump on to slowly bring the blocks back down... it makes a huge difference in keeping a head gasket in a high boost motor...
kent
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Kent, can you post pics of your tank, plumbing and pumps set up ?
Good info,
Thanks
Charles
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There are others that run a conventional radiator in a tank of water--with belt driven water pumps.
I have converted a small alum. radiator into a two pass heat exchanger by blocking of the center of one side tank with a inserted baffel and moving the hose outlet from the other end to the other. This is inserted in a 12 gallon tank that I am able to reverse flow the water from the 25 gallon tank at ther rear of the car with a big Mesiers pump mounted at the bottom of the car. I have another pump on the outlet so that I can pump the front tank dry to warm up only the eng coolant and eng oil---the heater hose connections are used to heat the dry sump oil resevior coil unit. May be overkill but I hope to some day have to handle the problem Rich Fox talked about.
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Also, a heads up. Rules for 2009 will elminate any cooling liquid other than pure water. The exception will be the allowed use of a product such as Water Wetter or Purple Ice.
I heard that it was any coolant that was non-flammable. Wouldn't that allow for conventional coolants in a mix with water? I would imagine that water would transfer heat better with something like Water Wetter or Purple Ice.
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Nope, that is not the way it was presented. Check with your source.
DW
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if your cooling system cant do the job with straight water its time to redesign..
kent