Landracing Forum
East Coast Timing Association => ECTA General Chat => Topic started by: Sam Green on September 02, 2008, 10:40:46 PM
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I have visited the ECTA website and looked at all the records for my class of motorcycle.(175cc)
Some of the letters I understand but, what dose BG mean ?
If A is altered and M is modified, what are they referring to ?
If I run nitrous, would I be in the F class ?
My bike is a Honda RS 125 GP bike, bored out 2mm to run in the 175cc class.
It runs on gas/petrol but is injected with nitrous oxide and the swingarm has been extended.
What class would I run in ?
What distance are your records timed over and are they two way averages ?
How much run in and stopping area is there ?
Thanks in advance, best regards Sam.
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No one really understands bike rules. Least of all me. I would guess that BG means "Blown Gas" but maybe not. The difference between altered and modified, to a car guy, can only be discerned with the eye of a Newt and the tail of a Goat. I know if you run nitrous your in Fuel class. ECTA has one way single run records.
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Thanks Rich, perhaps one of the organisers will chip in.
Sam. :wink:
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Let's see if I can shed some darkness and corfusion on your clearly-put questions.
"Some of the letters I understand but, what dose BG mean ?"
BG is "blown gas", just like Rich guessed/opined.
"If A is altered and M is modified, what are they referring to ?"
A simple way of explaining is that "modified" allows some changes, "altered" allows more radical modifications. An altered bike MUST meet at least one of four or five requirements, such as foot pegs no more than 6" in front of the rear axle, or a fuel tank of LESS THAN 1.32 gallons capacity, or a riders seat that's BELOW the top line of the rear tire, a wheelbase at least 110% of stock, and maybe some others. Get the rulebook and you'll find 'em all.
"If I run nitrous, would I be in the F class ?"
Yes.
"It runs on gas/petrol but is injected with nitrous oxide and the swingarm has been extended.
What class would I run in ?"
Well, since I've already mentioned that there are some things, such as a swingarm that's over a certain length, that would put you in altered -- and you don't specify the length of your extension -- I can't guess if you'd be in modified or altered. But for sure you'd be in fuel class -- the nitrous puts you there.
"What distance are your records timed over and are they two way averages ?
How much run in and stopping area is there ?"
There's a one-mile (approx) run up, a 132' timing trap, and a shut down with first turnout at about 1/2mile, the long one at something like 3/4 mile.
Now there -- that wasn't so bad, was it? Look at some of the car classes if you want confusion! (Comment offered, you understand, by a bike racer/inspector).
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Hi Sam,
1. Blown Gas
2. The frame
3. Yes
4. More info needed
5. 132 feet & no
6. 1mile run up & .9 mile shutdown
Start here by getting a rulebook (and/or membership which includes a rulebook) from Tonya:
http://www.ecta-lsr.com/?page_id=13
While you are waiting you can read "some" of the rules here:
http://twinjugsracing.com/ecta08mcrules.htm
Answering some of your questions would require asking you more questions... so it's usually easier if you ask about the rules you don't understand, rather then about the things that are already covered by the rules that you do understand.
Search around the rest of the ECTA site and you will find the answers to most of your questions as well.... picking a class etc is all in there (it's not quite up to date as much as it should be in this specific instance, but it will get you started with questions you'll better understand the answers to once you read thru it all).
Then again, we also sell Eye of Newt and Tail of Goat at the gate....
Welcome to the cotton field :-D
Todd
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Gee, some of your rules are tighter than FIM Grand Prix racing rules.
My bike is a stock (apart from the extended swingarm and nitrous) Honda GP bike and there is no way I can turn the gas off from the seated position, it's not that easy with a gloved hand when not on the bike.
Sam. :wink:
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Gee, some of your rules are tighter than FIM Grand Prix racing rules.
My bike is a stock (apart from the extended swingarm and nitrous) Honda GP bike and there is no way I can turn the gas off from the seated position, it's not that easy with a gloved hand when not on the bike.
Sam. :wink:
Welp, I guess you have a little work to do if you want to come play on the concrete!! :wink:
I'm sure you can get er done! So far we haven't had to reject one bike for a lack of fuel shut off so people are figuring out how to do it!
Let us know if you need some ideas, suggestions or support pictures!
I'm honestly not familiar with your bike. Any chance it has an electronic fuel pump? If I've got my facts straight (which often I don't but get quickly corrected when I'm wrong) an electric fuel pump shut off with an engine kill switch on the handle bar serves the purpose in most cases. Of course this is in regards to your typical street bike so I'm not sure if it applies to your GP bike.
Ask some more questions & offer some more info on your bike & we'll get you going in the right direction!
Debbie
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Gee, some of your rules are tighter than FIM Grand Prix racing rules.
My bike is a stock (apart from the extended swingarm and nitrous) Honda GP bike and there is no way I can turn the gas off from the seated position, it's not that easy with a gloved hand when not on the bike.
Sam. :wink:
Seems like alot of folks have figured out how to do it... You can always try pingle - they sell a remote shut off that mounts on the handle bars and can be actuated by your thumb... See problem solved... Now lets go racing...
JonAmo
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Sam
Your big bore RS125 would run in the 175/2 engine classes. Notice the /2 after the 175. Unlike the SCTA, at Maxton the ECTA bikes up to about 1000cc have separate engine classes for 2 stroke ( /2 ) and four stroke ( /4 ).
Will we see you at the September meet, at least as a spectator if not a racer?
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Thanks guys, the gas/petrol tap/petcock can be reached from the seated position. When the nitrous system was fitted along with a new duel flow tap it made it difficult to turn, perhaps it will be easier with a bit more use.
The swingarm has been extended by 6.75" and the seat/sub frame by the same amount.
The bikes fuel system is all gravity fed, there is no fuel pump.
I guess I will be in A or MPS/F-175/2.
I won't be able to make it this year as the bike is still in the testing stages, hopefully this time next year.
Here's a short video of the bike before the nitrous was fitted.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KXUXiuuK-VU
Sam. :wink:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KXUXiuuK-VU
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Sam
Your big bore RS125 would run in the 175/2 engine classes. Notice the /2 after the 175. Unlike the SCTA, at Maxton the ECTA bikes up to about 1000cc have separate engine classes for 2 stroke ( /2 ) and four stroke ( /4 ).
Yep. The full class would be APS-F 175cc/2 if it has a fairing, A-F 175cc/2 is it has no fairing.
The A is because it is a GP bike. SCTA, and I assume ECTA, makes "works" or GP bikes run as A's, not M's.
That is my understanding as an inspector at El Mirage & Bonneville.
Matt
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Yeah good point Matt, if it's a race specific bike it's an A or APS. Forgot about that!
Debbie
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Thanks Matt and Debbie, seems there is no record in that category though. :-( :-( :-(
Sam.
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If ECTA is the same as SCTA the swingarm will put you in A. 10% extended wheelbase is the limit for M. I sure your 125 didnt have over about a 55 inch wheelbase.
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I haven't looked but if there's no record most people think that's a good thing. That means that all you have to do is successfully make it down the track and the record is yours! :wink:
You can then spend the rest of the meet trying to bump it up nice & high! :-)
Debbie
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If ECTA is the same as SCTA the swingarm will put you in A. 10% extended wheelbase is the limit for M. I sure your 125 didnt have over about a 55 inch wheelbase.
Fred, the stock wheelbase is 1,260mm. I am now at 1,430mm, well over 10%.
Sam.
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Sam
Your big bore RS125 would run in the 175/2 engine classes. Notice the /2 after the 175. Unlike the SCTA, at Maxton the ECTA bikes up to about 1000cc have separate engine classes for 2 stroke ( /2 ) and four stroke ( /4 ).
Yep. The full class would be APS-F 175cc/2 if it has a fairing, A-F 175cc/2 is it has no fairing.
The A is because it is a GP bike. SCTA, and I assume ECTA, makes "works" or GP bikes run as A's, not M's.
That is my understanding as an inspector at El Mirage & Bonneville.
Matt
With the nitrous would it be in the Blown fuel class? Making it APS BF-175/2.
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Nope -
Nitrous is fuel class.
Turbo or blower is blown.
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Thanks, I was not clear on that. I cant wait to see this bike of Sam's run. I looks like a daemon on wheels.
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As a reference, the bonneville record in the 175cc classes are as follows:
APS-F Belen Wagner Honda ' 02 132.691 (with fairings, with nitrous)
A-F Belen Wagner Honda ' 02 120.622 (without farings, with nitrous)
APS-G Belen Wagner Honda ' 02 133.145 (with fairings, without nitrous)
A-G Darold Cummings Honda 8/03 125.220 (without fairings, without nitrous)
Hopefully, this can help establish a target range, and maybe bring you out to the salt after Maxton :)
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Stainless Two,
Looking at your signature of your last post, that Two Club hat sure does make you look better, without it you were pretty Fugly.
Congrats on the two club hat in APS_G 1000cc...
JonAmo
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As a reference, the bonneville record in the 175cc classes are as follows:
APS-F Belen Wagner Honda ' 02 132.691 (with fairings, with nitrous)
A-F Belen Wagner Honda ' 02 120.622 (without farings, with nitrous)
APS-G Belen Wagner Honda ' 02 133.145 (with fairings, without nitrous)
A-G Darold Cummings Honda 8/03 125.220 (without fairings, without nitrous)
Hopefully, this can help establish a target range, and maybe bring you out to the salt after Maxton :)
Thanks for all the replies guys but those speeds are well out of my reach...maybe if I cut off my arms and legs and rig up a thought control system :-D :-D :-D I think my 170lbs will keep Belans records safe for some time.
I'm hoping to get over in October as a spectator and hope to be able to bring my bike over next year when I have the nitrous set up working properly.
Just a thought, what's the altitude at Maxton ?
Sam. :wink:
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Altitude? I should know that as I lived in that area 28 years ago ?? Hmm not certain but my best guess would be around 300 to 500 feet above sea level.
Now if you had asked about Attitude, I would say AWESOME and SKY HIGH,,, the ECTA folks are Great, come on down and visit in October, heck bring your bike even if the juice is not working, take a few passes, get hooked,,, it's great...
We Built a car from scratch and have run it at only one meet, I am so pumped, I am starting on another car....Plan to Race the #806 Car in Sept and Oct and then take her motor out and put in the new car #1806 car for next year (if we finish in time for the 2009 season here and out west.)
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Hi Cajun, I can't afford to bring the bike over on this visit, and in respect of getting hooked, I've been land racing for 43 years :-D :-D :-D
It sure dose get you pumped when a new project starts showing promice. I'll drink to that :cheers:
Sam. :wink:
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Sam, I'll be at Maxton this month and Oct. Look me up, we will have that drink after the car is tucked in for the night.
Charles
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Sam, I'll be at Maxton this month and Oct. Look me up, we will have that drink after the car is tucked in for the night.
Charles
Sounds good to me. 8-)
Sam. :wink:
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Hmm not certain but my best guess would be around 300 to 500 feet above sea level.
For reference, the Maxton course is between 206-210 feet; the "high spots" are just past the start, just before halfway and in the shutdown.
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Bret K, I understand you know that wild and crazy Tex Cooper. I used to drag race at Indy with him, he's a great guy. A few years ago, I was strapped in the car ready for a pass on the long course at Bonneville, when up drives Tex in a rental. I have been trying to get him changed over to LSR, without any sucess.
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Irrespective of class, I'm going to be at Maxton in October although just as a spectator, can't afford to ship the bike over this year. If I don't find me a ride, I'll be willing to be a pit bitch for anyone needing help.
Sam.
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Hmm not certain but my best guess would be around 300 to 500 feet above sea level.
For reference, the Maxton course is between 206-210 feet; the "high spots" are just past the start, just before halfway and in the shutdown.
Sounds like a bumpy ride :-D :-D :-D :-D Thanks for that Bret.
Sam. :wink:
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Sam, my crew will not be with me on Saturday in October (they all have a show to go to at Charlotte Motor Speedway, So if you are bored and need a place to hang out and help,,, look me up.
Charles
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Will do Charles :cheers:
Sam. :wink: