Landracing Forum
Tech Information => Technical Discussion => Topic started by: javajoe79 on August 07, 2008, 01:10:52 AM
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Does that make any sense to anyone? My boss proposed the idea and I want to say I have heard it before but maybe not. Can anyone think of any benefit to this? In my world, road racing, unsprung weight is bad. Is it also bad for an LSR car, or is extra weight on an LSR car only good when it is sprung?
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Does that make any sense to anyone? My boss proposed the idea and I want to say I have heard it before but maybe not. Can anyone think of any benefit to this? In my world, road racing, unsprung weight is bad. Is it also bad for an LSR car, or is extra weight on an LSR car only good when it is sprung?
Maybe I am wrong but would the bead on the tire not be put under a lot of stress and potentially unlock with the rotating mass if this happened? On the other hand I hear they put water in the tires of tractors.
Scott
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Which course are you going to be on at Bonneville..? :mrgreen:
Actually the smart racers run Helium (until the prices got to "high") to make the vehicles lighter..takes less hp to keep em moving.. :-D
Me I stick with the free stuff, air, Nitrogen if I can borrow some, hard to give back when done however..matter a fact Jason owes me about 90 psi (40 front and 50 rear) for my bike..
Nobody runs water in their tires (intentionally)
John
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Does that make any sense to anyone? My boss proposed the idea and I want to say I have heard it before but maybe not. Can anyone think of any benefit to this? In my world, road racing, unsprung weight is bad. Is it also bad for an LSR car, or is extra weight on an LSR car only good when it is sprung?
Maybe I am wrong but would the bead on the tire not be put under a lot of stress and potentially unlock with the rotating mass if this happened? On the other hand I hear they put water in the tires of tractors.
Scott
I don't know. Maybe. If it is under pressure though, it should be the same as air, only heavier. As for tractors, they do it for traction. They also fill them with a high density foam so that they don't go flat when puntured.
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Tires are designed to be pneumatic tires. The air pressure acts as a spring that gives you compliance both in compression and shear when turning. In other words, the tire sticks to the ground while the vehicle is moving both horizontally and laterally.
What you are proposing would turn it into a hydraulic tire. Water does not compress so all the things a tire is designed for go out the window. You would be running a solid tire. Might as well put a fork lift tire on it.
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The helium thing is all but pointless it seems. Once under pressure, I think the weight difference would be almost nothing.
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The helium thing is all but pointless it seems. Once under pressure, I think the weight difference would be almost nothing.
Ever weigh an empty tire versus one filled with 40 pounds of air... :mrgreen:
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Tires are designed to be pneumatic tires. The air pressure acts as a spring that gives you compliance both in compression and shear when turning. In other words, the tire sticks to the ground while the vehicle is moving both horizontally and laterally.
What you are proposing would turn it into a hydraulic tire. Water does not compress so all the things a tire is designed for go out the window. You would be running a solid tire. Might as well put a fork lift tire on it.
Agreed. But don't some of the streamliners use solid tires? Or are the solid tires only on non wheel driven cars? Let me say that I am not proposing this, just putting it out there. It seems like trouble to me, not to mention extra work.
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The helium thing is all but pointless it seems. Once under pressure, I think the weight difference would be almost nothing.
Ever weigh an empty tire versus one filled with 40 pounds of air... :mrgreen:
No, have you? I will try it tomorrow though.
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The helium thing is all but pointless it seems. Once under pressure, I think the weight difference would be almost nothing.
Ever weigh an empty tire versus one filled with 40 pounds of air... :mrgreen:
No, have you? I will try it tomorrow though.
Make sure you have a rather low amount of humidity when weighing the two for an accurate test.. :mrgreen:
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Have you weighed Noonan's head when it's full of hot air versus a complete vacuum? :mrgreen:
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i have a john deer tractor that i use here on the ranch it has water in the rear tires it just makes the tractor heaver and it gets more traction --it also has wheel weights in the rear and a weight in front but not on the wheels --i have driven it on the street to a friends house to disc his back field --top speed with all of the weight being slung around most of the time out of balance is around 35 mph--if you build a car or bike for irregular surface think lite on all of the suspension parts that move up and down when you hit a bump and put the weight in the car ---------willie buchta
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Have you weighed Noonan's head when it's full of hot air versus a complete vacuum? :mrgreen:
Shhhhhh :-D :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
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I can use nitrogen or regular air. I don't have helium so this won't really show me anything except how much the air in a tire weighs.
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I can use nitrogen or regular air. I don't have helium so this won't really show me anything except how much the air in a tire weighs.
It was a joke..the Afro smiley would indicate it was all in fun, a joke, comedy, humor, satire.. :mrgreen:
Run Nitrogen when you can, ditch the water idea, helium is for party balloons and at minimum run plain old air if it is all you can put in.
Good luck at Bonneville..
J
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-if you build a car or bike for irregular surface think lite on all of the suspension parts that move up and down when you hit a bump and put the weight in the car ---------willie buchta
That is the norm for our road race cars so I figured the same was true.
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I can use nitrogen or regular air. I don't have helium so this won't really show me anything except how much the air in a tire weighs.
It was a joke..the Afro smiley would indicate it was all in fun, a joke, comedy, humor, satire.. :mrgreen:
Run Nitrogen when you can, ditch the water idea, helium is for party balloons and at minimum run plain old air if it is all you can put in.
Good luck at Bonneville..
J
Thanks. I figured as much but you used the afro alot so I thought maybe you just use it alot. :) Still new here so I don't really know you guys. You have all been alot of help so far though. Hopefully I will get to meet some of you in October.
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I can use nitrogen or regular air. I don't have helium so this won't really show me anything except how much the air in a tire weighs.
It was a joke..the Afro smiley would indicate it was all in fun, a joke, comedy, humor, satire.. :mrgreen:
Run Nitrogen when you can, ditch the water idea, helium is for party balloons and at minimum run plain old air if it is all you can put in.
Good luck at Bonneville..
J
Thanks. I figured as much but you used the afro alot so I thought maybe you just use it alot. :) Still new here so I don't really know you guys. You have all been alot of help so far though. Hopefully I will get to meet some of you in October.
No worries and for a while I thought you were putting me on.. :wink:
Take care and see you on the salt. :-D
J
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I'm surprised it's not specifically prohibited.
If you ban it you would have to ban full size pig hood ornaments, towing advertising banners, seeing if you could jam 25 college students inside and go 200 mph . . .
(http://www.truckcustomizers.com/images/prods/GEM/G4GEM1.FP1.jpg)
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According to Denis Manning when he talked to the Goodyear engineers, it is the centrifugal force of the air in the tire that pulls them off the bead. The pressure buildup blows the tire when it gets to about 425psi. He uses a 3 piece wheel that clamps the bead to stop the first problem. Anything heaver than air at 100psi would be a real big problem.
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Sorry, missed your point?
No, you didn't. When I posted that I was basing it on a pretty firm conviction that no one has ever done it, and no one will.
Ok, I will concede the point that someone could do it. The centrifugal force from the water would blow the tread off at a very low speed.
Does that mean they should address this? Should tires be checked for water? All it would do is add meaningless work for the tech inspectors. If they had been checking for water last year that would have meant checking over 2,000 tires. All without water.
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i have a john deer tractor that i use here on the ranch it has water in the rear tires it just makes the tractor heaver and it gets more traction --it also has wheel weights in the rear and a weight in front but not on the wheels --i have driven it on the street to a friends house to disc his back field --top speed with all of the weight being slung around most of the time out of balance is around 35 mph--if you build a car or bike for irregular surface think lite on all of the suspension parts that move up and down when you hit a bump and put the weight in the car ---------willie buchta
I have tractors too , water in the wheels at any speed other than slow would be something you would only try once..if lucky you may survive..
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the way I understood this,...was an old stock car "cheat",...you'd go to weigh in with your car just WAY too light, and with water filled tires you'd make race weight minimum,..then switch to air filled tires during the race, and somehow switch BACK if you won, so you'd make post race inspection.
I never thought anyone ACTUALLY DID THIS, I thought it more of a coffee shop myth.